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If Jesus were alive today..
- Thread starter Vieope
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Intelligent Design is really nothing more than the "God of Gaps" making a comeback. If there is a gap in the scientific explanation of a phenomenon (and there usually is), then God did it. That's a rather crude summation on my part but it serves its purpose.busyLivin said:
Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory. When something is described as a scientific theory, it is automatically imbued with the presumption of a certain level of demonstrable proof. Scientific theories, by definition, are not speculative nor are they based on limited knowledge or information. A scientific theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypothese and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers.
Intelligent Design is speculative not demonstrative and it thrives on incomplete information. Intelligent Design starts with a conclusion and ends with a conclusion: "it looks fairly complex..Ah Hah, God must have a hand in all this." Even if rocks fell from the sky with "Made by God" stamped on them, that would not be evidence of Intelligent Design.
I think evolution has a few more hard facts, but do agree that it is speculative in nature. If we are being honest here, IMO, evolution has more scientific support than religion, Plus, religion has rules and shit that prevent me from doing fun stuff whereas science does not. So, I do my fun stuff, have a good time, treat people nicely, and in the event I am wrong, I may fly under the radar and get into the nice place when I die, if not I will just pack some sunblock.
To answer the initial question, Jesus would prolly have a gig on public access TV.
To answer the initial question, Jesus would prolly have a gig on public access TV.
You are wrong and demonstrably so.busyLivin said:
I have seen Kent Hovind lecture and I have met the man. He is the foremost proponent of ID and he is a fucking lunatic. That being said, Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory. It is rhetorical tool for backdooring religion into academia. I believe Band Aid Woman posted an article from Scientific American listing the reasons supporting evolution. Here're few:
1. The NAS defines a fact as "an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as 'true.'" The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.
2. These days even most creationists acknowledge that microevolution has been upheld by tests in the laboratory (as in studies of cells, plants and fruit flies) and in the field (as in Grant's studies of evolving beak shapes among Galápagos finches). The historical nature of macroevolutionary study involves inference from fossils and DNA rather than direct observation. Yet in the historical sciences (which include astronomy, geology and archaeology, as well as evolutionary biology), hypotheses can still be tested by checking whether they accord with physical evidence and whether they lead to verifiable predictions about future discoveries.
I could go on but you get the point. How exactly do you divine God's intellect merely from complexities in nature? Sounds like a philosophical question to me. Studying complex patterns makes you an artist not a scientist. What is the threshold for when complex phenomena become agents/indicators of Intelligent Design?
bkc said:
All is not lost in America. When George Bush came out a couple of weeks ago in favour of teaching "intelligent design" - the new manifestation of creationism - the press gave him a tremendous kicking. The Christian Taliban have not yet won.
But they are gaining on us. So far there have been legislative attempts in 13 states to have intelligent design added to the school curriculum. In Kansas, Texas and Philadelphia, it already has a foot in the door. In April a new "museum of earth history" opened in Arkansas, which instructs visitors that "dinosaurs and humans did coexist", and that juvenile dinosaurs, though God forgot to mention it, hitched a ride on Noah's Ark. Similar museums are being built in Texas and Kentucky. Some 45% of Americans, according to a Gallup poll last year, believe that "human beings did not evolve, but instead were created by God ... essentially in their current form about 10,000 years ago".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1549878,00.html
But they are gaining on us. So far there have been legislative attempts in 13 states to have intelligent design added to the school curriculum. In Kansas, Texas and Philadelphia, it already has a foot in the door. In April a new "museum of earth history" opened in Arkansas, which instructs visitors that "dinosaurs and humans did coexist", and that juvenile dinosaurs, though God forgot to mention it, hitched a ride on Noah's Ark. Similar museums are being built in Texas and Kentucky. Some 45% of Americans, according to a Gallup poll last year, believe that "human beings did not evolve, but instead were created by God ... essentially in their current form about 10,000 years ago".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1549878,00.html
I have only just begun looking into ID. From what I have learned so far, it is extremely convincing. I am perhaps biased, but I have no real reason to shoot down evolution. God may just have well set evolution in motion.
I don't have any more answers than any of you, but something is definitely going on behind the scenes...
I don't have any more answers than any of you, but something is definitely going on behind the scenes...
Answering the question, if Jesus were alive today he'd be preacher--that's a stretch-- or a rock star....crucified on his 33rd birthday, again, b/c his views of helping the less fortunate might have taken hold and the real producers/owners in this world cannot have creeping socialism. Think of the marketing---necklaces w/ crosses...sandals....wine....sounds like a stinkin hippie.
I also believe that Jesus would not be a GW fan, that be for sure.
star wars, and he was not disrespecting the force.ForemanRules said:
.he did that earlier in the movie. he said i can imagine quite a bit in regards to the reward he would recieve for saving the princess. and i was hardly taking the time to look things up in books before i came into this thread. some of us have a life outside of ironmagforums and can hardly keep up with your blistering pace of 60 posts/day
buildingup
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dont ask such a blasphemous question! or its straight to the depths of hell with the fallen angel when you cop it
You wait here till his plane gets in,bio-chem said:
I'm gonna head on over to the LIFE
You do know your Religion......it was Solo and he was talking about moneybio-chem said:star wars, and he was not disrespecting the force.
and i was hardly taking the time to look things up in books before i came into this thread. some of us have a life outside of ironmagforums and can hardly keep up with your blistering pace of 60 posts/day74.90or so.....If you are going to quote stats or facts you have to be accurate.
well I have to admit it when I'm wrong......and you did get me on that time......good job 
Yes it is, and when your life is over, you will know I was rightbio-chem said:
God is your Dead Beat Dad,
and he's not coming to take you to the baseball game -
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why no... you have got some issues my friend. ones not likely to be fixed here on the internetbio-chem said:
Although I don't want to fix you
you are free to believe in all the rabble you like -
The Christian Taliban? Do you have a clue what goes on in America? Somehow, wanting to offer 2 viewpoints instead of 1 makes us on the same level as the taliban? You need a reality check.Nick+ said:
Atheists cry out at the very hint of religion, screaming about not wanting beliefs forced on them, and yet in the same breath they are trying to force their beliefs on the religious.
Just judging based on character in this thread alone, whose side would you want to be on? Look at all the one-sided negativity being spewed in every other post.
As for science, perhaps religious people think that one celled organisms somehow transforming over billions of years into human beings is a little bit of a ridiculous idea. Just a thought.
brogers said:
I pasted that from the article which I provided a link to below. Not saying that "Christian Taliban" is a good expression. I'm not really an atheist either.
Negativity? When I see certain Americans (and people of other nationalities) starting to accept "Intelligent Design", is there not some reason to start getting badly frightened?
"communism" (or the Soviets type of Socialism) was almost like a religion to them. Any extreme political belief /cult, (look at National Socialism-sorry Nazism) which become about as bad as an extreme religious belief.
There are corrupt scientists just as well... Scientists who ignore other facts to get what they want... Look at the whole Piltdown man scenario. Everyone ate up that bullshit because it fit into their box. What ended up being their missing link was ignored at first because it wasn't what they expected.Nick+ said:
Religion isn't unique in it's corruption or manipulation.
Stalin was responsible for about 20-30 million deaths in a relatively short span of time.
You are either joking or severly uninformed if you think he is "nothing in comparison" to leaders who used religion to do harm.
Edit: My point is that people are innately evil, religious or not. Alot people tend to say "Oh without religion there would be so much less violence." It is not true at all. Psychos still exist. People are still misguided. Stalin was probably the most destructive man ever, and he was an atheist.
You are either joking or severly uninformed if you think he is "nothing in comparison" to leaders who used religion to do harm.
Edit: My point is that people are innately evil, religious or not. Alot people tend to say "Oh without religion there would be so much less violence." It is not true at all. Psychos still exist. People are still misguided. Stalin was probably the most destructive man ever, and he was an atheist.
