Improving chest

[Josh]

Hi all,

I am newbie to this forum, so sorry if my question has been discussed sometime before. I've been working out for about 2 years. One of the hardest body part for me to develop is my chest. I have tried bench presses and flyes most of the time, but the development of my chest seems to be so slow, after 2 years there seems to be very minimal improvement in size. Even my stomach is now bigger than my chest. Another thing that I notice about exercising my chest is that I almost never got any sore feeling after doing any chest exercise. When I do biceps and quads I almost always get sore feeling, which to me indicate that my muscles are reacting well with the training. But such feeling never accompany my chest exercises, even when I lift near very near my max.

So my first questions in this forum are, how to work on chest muscles more effectively? What mistakes have I been doing that may prevent my chest from developing properly? Thanks.

Regards,
Josh

 

[nikegurl]

couple things come to mind for me. others will answer who know more though!

first - i found my strength increased more with barbell presses but my chest development improved when i switched over to dumbells. either way - change is good. for me i prefer to use dumbells most of the time.

another thing. i used to feel a lot of my chest work in my front delts more then my chest. 2 things helped. first - before i start a set i sort of tuck my shoulders underneath me. i curl them farther behind and under on the bench. doing that raises your chest up a little before you even start the set. then the other thing is at the top of the movement after i complete the rep i do a strong squeeze or contraction at the finish of the movement. that also seemed to make a difference.

welcome aboard!

 

[Neil]

What does your current chest routine look like?

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Neil
What does your current chest routine look like?

I second that....

I find my chest being one of the easiest muscles to get sore.

 

[Pitboss]

Chest is also my most lagging body part. My Triceps and shoulders are exceptionally strong and take the brunt of the work.. however I have found better results lately with Dumb bells and incorporating Hamemr strength machines into my routines. I still do flat and decline BB bench for my first sets which seem to help fatigue my shoulders and triceps so I can concentrate more on the chest with DB's

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by Josh how to work on chest muscles more effectively?

First I'd say answer Neil and Prince's question. It's difficult for anybody to critique a routine before we see it. Second I'll go ahead and throw out that the best results for my chest have come from pre-exhaust routines. Do a pectoral isolation movement (DB Flyes, cable cross overs or pec deck) then move to a heavy compound movement (bench press, DB bench press, weighted dips [my favorite]). Lastly, Nikegurl's tip about shoulders couldn't be more correct. Before beginning any press bring your shoulder blades together as though you're pinching a pencil between them and keep them there for the entire set. That will help take your deltoids out of the movement and better isolate your pecs.

 

[nikegurl]

ooooh albob! much better way to explain (the pencil example)

i think i may have to try that pre-exhaust myself. for some reason with chest i always want to see those weights go up. b/c of that i've avoided pre-exhaust. but now i have to remind myself - i want to build the muscle. not be a powerlifter. still hard sometimes. i just want to keep moving down the db rack to heavier ones! stupid...i know!


tonight's chest - so great timing too. thanks for the wake up!

 

[ActionMatt]

Heavier weight = more growth.

 

[nikegurl]

not sure i agree ActionMatt. definitely true in the beginning.

i think it's more work on the muscle that counts which isn't exactly the same as heavier weight. if you preexhaust chest you'll handle lighter weight when you do presses. but could mean more growth.

not as simple as more weight = more growth (in my opinion)

 

[ActionMatt]

Of course its not that simple.

I was just noting that on the average, assuming the same rep range (5-10), more weight will mean a bigger muscle.

Now, if you want me to make it *complicated*, that I can do also.

 

[nikegurl]

nah - i get you! just had to reassure myself! i've been trying to just add weight every chest workout and my progress has slowed some with chest so i'm going to switch to trying some pre-exhaust stuff.

hope i didn't sound like a beeeotch! time to eat so maybe i did!

 

[Robboe]

Who's a fan of pre-exhaust?

I'm not saying it's no good, but seriously, what's the difference between doing a flye before a press or a press before a flye?

You'll still be doing the same thing more or less, right?

[by the way, i have no idea whether i'm arguing for or against pre-exhaust yet, i just want to argue ]

 

[Robboe]

Sorry for the use of politically incorrect english. Here's the correction:

"Debate"

 

[nikegurl]

love it. "debate". i've always done it one way so i can't really have an opinion (as much as i love having opinions)

 

[Robboe]

Yeah, they're like arseholes eh?

Let's look at it from one way: Firstly, it's a principle adopted by the prick himself, Joe Weider. About 95% of the weider principles are overhyped crap, designed with "big" words in order to make money by selling to unknowing folk (for the most part anyhoo, some of his "principles" are just basic lifting ideas [ones that work of course!])

Secondly, why do something that is just gonna take away strength from your "big" lifts?

Just because you do something before hand, why does that make it better than afterwards?

Like i said before, i'm still not arguing for one side only, but there is at least one negative aspect towards them. If i think of a positive i'll note it.

Any opinions/ideas?

 

[nikegurl]

i think i'm basically onboard with what you're saying.

only positive that comes to mind for me personally - i've never done pre-exhaust for chest so maybe that element of change will be good. no better in theory - just a different approach. i change rep range and exercises but never used this technique.

i still bet i'll hate using less weight....(oops - not the point!)

 

[Robboe]

Not just chest, how about quads?

Have you ever started your leg workout with leg extentions to pre-exhaust quads?

I used to do this but my best squat gains came when i started my workout with squats. I also made my best leg gains by doing this.

 

[nikegurl]

i did try with legs and didn't like it at all.

i liked supersets with legs though. but even those i did AFTER my squats or presses.

 

[Robboe]

Hmmmm i wonder if there are any more positive comments for pre-exhaust from anyone?

 

[pumpit]

Well i think that pre-exhausting the muscle before the big lift would help to affect more fibers in the muscle and cause more growth. Doing them before or afterwards is just down to preference.

 

[Josh]

Ow wow! So may responses already, I don't know how to response anymore! Thanks all.

To first answer Neil's question, my chest workout has been basically doing bench presses, flat and sometimes inclined, using barbell on a Smith machine (? that bench press unit where the barbell go on a fixed track up and down ?). In general I would go 4 sets, with reps 6, 4, 2 and 1, adding more 2.5 kgs from set to set, with rest about 1-1.5 minutes between sets. Then after the last set I would immediately go to failure with the weight I used for the first set (previously 6 reps), then immediately following that I do DB flyes also to failure. This chest exercise I get from Anthony Ellis (www.skinnyguy.com). Besides this routine, after doing it for about 3 to 6 weeks, I also do 10x10 DB inclined bench presses for about 3 weeks. My chest is scheduled once per week. I've followed such chest routines for almost 1 year now, but as I said, I find that the result on my chest seems not optimal. Anyway, currently I change the routine again. Following Oliver Wolter's X-Size program (just starting), I do 2 sets of DB flyes, both to failure, with the first set at 80% of my 1RM, and the second set at 60%. I don't know how this would turn out yet because I've just started.

Well, what do you guys think?

Regards,
Josh

 

[Neil]

Here is a simple chest routine that should work well-
flat BP- 3 sets of 6-8 reps
incline db press- same
flat flyes(optional)- 2 sets of 8
No need to get too complicated. Keep it simple, eat lots, and try to add more weight each week.

 

[Josh]

Neil's simple routine is similar to what I did when I first began lifting weight (before I tried Ellis' and Wolter's routines). But looking back now, I realized that all these routines, simple and more complicated, still do not produce much improvement to my chest (yes there is improvement, but very very minimal). Indeed in the beginning I did not do my bench presses correctly, because I felt more tension in my triceps and not at all on my chest. But soon after that I have correctly my form, still this brings not too much result. I feel that I am missing something with my chest exercises, which has prohibited me from seeing great results.

I have tried to eat lots, yes I gain weight, but mostly on my stomach (that's why I said before my stomach is bigger than my chest, which discourages me even more). I've also tried to add more weight each week, but this is also very very difficult. My current 1RM for flat bench press is only 40 kgs (on Smith machine), which I think is not too far different from when I first started weight training. --Josh

 

[Neil]

Maybe you should post your entire routine so we can get an idea of what you're doing

 

[Josh]

Okay, here are my entire rountines. Let me start from the beginning of this year.

For 6 weeks:
Day 1:
Flat bench BB press: 6x30-32.5, 4x32.5-35, 2x35-37.5, 1x37.5-40, 8x30-32.5
Flat bench DB flyes: 10x7-9
Sit BB shoulder press: 6x17.5-20, 4x20-22.5, 2x22.5-25, 1x25-27.5, 8x17.5-20
Sit lateral raise: 6x6
Tricep pushdown: 10x50-60

Day 2:
BB squat: 6x47.5-60, 4x50-62.5, 2x52.5-65, 1x55-67.5, 10x47.5-60
Leg extension: 10x90-110
BB stiff-leg deadlift: 6x32.5-40, 4x35-42.5, 2x37.5-45, 1x40-47.5, 10x32.5-40
Hamstring curl: 6x50
Calf raises: 10x40-52.5, 8x50-62.5

Day 3:
Bent-over rows: 6x30-37.5, 4x32.5-40, 2x35-42.5, 1x37.5-45, 10x30-37.5
Underhand latbar pulldown: 10x90-100
Stand DB bicep curl: 10x10, 4x12, 4x12, 4x12
Stand reverse EZ bar bicep curl: 8x5, 8x7.5, 3x10

Then, next 3 weeks:
Day 1:
Inclined bench DB press: 10x10x10 (10 sets x 10 reps x 10)
Reverse grip bent-over row: 10x10x20

Day 2:
Leg press: 10x10x8
Calf raise: 4x10x52.5

Day 3:
Stand BB bicep curl: 10x10x10
Tricep pulldown: 4x10x4

Then, for the next 3 weeks, similar routines to the earlier 6 weeks, except:

Flat bench press is changed to inclined bench press, with maximum 35 kgs.
Shrug is added on day 3, with maximum 10x50.

After doing the above routines, I recently changed to these 3 routines done only on my 3 most recent workout days:

DB flyes: 10x8, 12x6
BB curl: 8x17.5, 10x10

DB flyes: 9x10, 12x8
BB curl: 7x20, 10x12.5

Underhand pulldown: 6x100, 10x60
Pushdown: 7x60, 10x40

I'll be doing the above routine again with increased weight in my next workout, and then I will switch to routines for lower body parts. --Josh

 

[Robboe]

How old are you?

You do realise that if you're a natural trainer that growth comes slow, right?

How much has your chest increased since you started training?

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by pumpit
Well i think that pre-exhausting the muscle before the big lift would help to affect more fibers in the muscle and cause more growth.

How would it differ whether you did pre-exhaustion or post-exhaustion?

 

[Robboe]

Except for effecting your strength on your main lifts of course.

 

[Josh]

Chicken Daddy, I'm 34 years old. About a year ago my chest was 33 inches, today it's 33.25 inches, thus only 0.25 inch increase in one year. Is this normal for a natural trainer? Or is there anything I can do to gain more chest mass a bit faster (even though still slower compared to a professional trainer)? -- Josh

 

[Yanks20]

josh,

i would move your shoulders to another day. maybe incoporate a 4 day split. you are doing all the major push exercises in one day. my push exercises are on mon, wed & fri. chest mon, shouders wed & tri's and bi's fri.