Lifting belt INCREASES chance of getting hernia?

[fqqs]

One doctor told me that weightlifing belt can CAUSE hernia rather than prevent it. I mean it increases intra abdominal pressure, but its width is only 10-15cm. So areas above and below a belt are more vulnerable to hernia when you use your belt than when you dont.

What do you think? I never used one and wondered about using it, but now im confused

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

One doctor told me that weightlifing belt can CAUSE hernia rather than prevent it. I mean it increases intra abdominal pressure, but its width is only 10-15cm. So areas above and below a belt are more vulnerable to hernia when you use your belt than when you dont.

What do you think? I never used one and wondered about using it, but now im confused

Medical Doctors

This is one of the largest, most arrogant groups there is.

They are clueless when with nutrition, exercise physiology, physical therapy and pharmaceuticals.

Education

At most, they've had MAYBE 6 college hours in each of the above. 6 college hour does NOT make anyone an expert.

Yet, they are "Self Anointed Experts" in all these fields.

"One doctor told me..."

He's an idiot in this area. He needs to stop wondering around lost in an area he has NO knowledge in.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Intense]

You trust doctors opinions? I only need them to get the meds I WANT.


"Herp derp, inject this cypionate once every 2 weeks"

 

[fqqs]

yeah, but isnt that LOGICAL? that belt creates danger in below and above areas (belt is only 10-15 cm width at most)?

 

[bjg]

the belt was not basically designed to prevent hernia , i believe it is designed for back support and i always use it while doing squats, dead lifts, standing curls etc....it may or may not help in preventing back injury ( studies are not conclusive)but it sure reminds me to keep my lower back straight and for sure it does not help injuring yourself.
now when it comes to hernia i don't think it can neither promote nor prevent hernia in general...the doctor has a point though , engineering speaking :while the belt protects the area under it from hernia , it might also create a stress line below the belt in very few specific exercises like leg presses ( i can't think of another one )but this is not practically validated . But in general i think the belt helps in many other exercises and will always remind you to keep your back straight.
I myself use it

 

[ctr10]

I've heard that crap for years, never had a hernia and wear a belt every time i workout

 

[fufu]

One doctor told me that weightlifing belt can CAUSE hernia rather than prevent it. I mean it increases intra abdominal pressure, but its width is only 10-15cm. So areas above and below a belt are more vulnerable to hernia when you use your belt than when you dont.

What do you think? I never used one and wondered about using it, but now im confused

This is an interesting question, and one I have thought about.

Typically herniations occur where you have an area of weak tissue within a plane of strong tissue. As outward pressure increases through the tissue, the weak spot will be the most likely to rupture and allow internal tissues to protrude superficially (outwardly).

Assuming someone has strong tissue overall, I am curious how the belt would affect the situation.

I think there is one major factor that is ignored in your assumption, and that is that the pressure of the abdominal wall is only increased where the belt is. I don't think that is entirely true, as the abdominal wall contracts wholly, and not just "in the middle". The belt acts as an obstacle in which the abdominal wall presses against to create a reactive neuromuscular effect.

This is just like if you are sitting on a stool, and someone puts their hand on your chest to push you backwards. You naturally (reactively) brace your abdominals in order to prevent your self from being push backwards. Note that the person pushing you is NOT pushing your abdomen (his hand is on your chest), yet the abs are the area that increase in stiffness and pressure.

I think the bottom line is that weak areas will rupture, regardless of where the belt is touching. Now, the fact that you can increase your overall stiffness by the use of a belt means you may be more susceptible to a herniation if you have a weak spot anywhere in your abdominal tissue.

I don't know the answer for sure, but that is my theory.

 

[fufu]

the belt was not basically designed to prevent hernia , i believe it is designed for back support and i always use it while doing squats, dead lifts, standing curls etc....it may or may not help in preventing back injury ( studies are not conclusive)but it sure reminds me to keep my lower back straight and for sure it does not help injuring yourself.
now when it comes to hernia i don't think it can neither promote nor prevent hernia in general...the doctor has a point though , engineering speaking :while the belt protects the area under it from hernia , it might also create a stress line below the belt in very few specific exercises like leg presses ( i can't think of another one )but this is not practically validated . But in general i think the belt helps in many other exercises and will always remind you to keep your back straight.
I myself use it

Weight lifting belts are used to increase intraabominal pressure (through neuromuscular reactivity) to create stiffness around the spine, lending to stabilization. In that respect, the belt can be seen as offering support to the spine, but only if you know how to engage your abs properly into the belt. However, wearing a belt does not prevent poor spinal movement. I've seen plenty folks use horrible form with a belt on.

A belt is a tool that will only reap you benefits if you know how to use it.

 

[bjg]

^^^ of course it offers support ...but does it prevent injury?? studies suggest that it won't help but it won't harm......still i think that it can help a bit if used properly AND ALSO if the belt is a good quality belt that does what it is supposed to do, that said, studies did not focus on good quality belts , it just involved all kinds of belts which i think will make a difference.
+ i think lots of hernias are due to some genetic weakness in the tissue surrounding the muscle ..some people are more prone than others to get a hernia.

 

[fqqs]

Maybe a bit depends also on whether you button you belt superextra tight or a bit loose?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Weight lifting belts are used to increase intraabominal pressure (through neuromuscular reactivity) to create stiffness around the spine, lending to stabilization. In that respect, the belt can be seen as offering support to the spine, but only if you know how to engage your abs properly into the belt. However, wearing a belt does not prevent poor spinal movement. I've seen plenty folks use horrible form with a belt on.

A belt is a tool that will only reap you benefits if you know how to use it.

Good information. Let me add to it.

Intra-Abdominal Pressure

This is produce with a belt by holding your breath and then pushing your abdominal into the belt, an Isometric Abdominal Action.

Intra-Abdominal Pressure = Greater Spine Support

The increase Intra-Abdominal Pressure stabilizes the spine.

Powerlifting Belts

The belts that allow you to produce that greatest amount of Intra-Abdominal Pressure are powerlifting belts. That because they are just as wide in the frontal abdominal area as in the back area.

Powerlifting belts have the same width, front and back. They are 4 inches/10 centimeters in width.

Wider Abdominal Belt Surface

The wider surface of the powerlifting belt allows you use the abdominals to push against a larger surface.

This means you produce more Intra-Abdominal Pressure which lead to more lower back support.

Weightlifting Belts

These belt are wide in the back and narrow in the front. They are about 4 inches/10 centimeters in the back and 2 inches/5 centimeters in the front.

Less Abdominal Area

That means that less Intra-Abdominal Pressure is produced with Weightlifting Belts vs Powerlifting Belts.

What's In A Name?

A LOT. Most people call all belts, "Weightlifting Belts". There a definite difference in a Weightlifting Belt and Powerlifting Belt and HOW they work.

Early Powerlifters

In the early days, there were NO Powerlifting Belts. Weightlifting Belts were used.

However, Powerlifters modified how they work Weightlifting Belts.

Wearing The Belt Backwards

What Powerlifter's did was turn the wider back (4 inch) of the Weightlfiting Belt around to the abdominal area.

They would wear the narrow (2 inch) buckle part of the Weightlifting Belt in the back.

Anecdotal Data

Powerlifters knew turning the Weightlifting belt backward worked, WE (I'm from that ear) just didn't know why.

Research Proved Powerlifter Right

Research has proven that wearing Weightlifting Belt backward DOES increase Intra-Abominal Pressure which provide greater support for the lower back, Spine.

Maximizing Intra-Abdominal Pressure and Greater Spine Stabilization

1) Purchase a "Powerlfiting" Type Belt that has is just a wide in the abdominal area as in the back are.

2) Perform an Isometric Abdominal Action when performing squats, deadlifts, overhead press, etc.

Hold your breath and PUSH against the Belt.

Doing this dramatically increases your Spine Stability via Intra-Abdominal Pressure.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Maybe a bit depends also on whether you button you belt superextra tight or a bit loose?

Wrong!

No matter how you twist this, your physician is wrong.

Genetic Weakness

As bjg noted, the majority of hernia's are genetic.

That means they are an accident waiting to happen.

Two Hernias

I've been powerlifting since 1969. I had a hearnia in 1995. The hernia was due to a "genetic weakness".

In other word, it was a gift from my parents.

I'd probably never had developed a hernia if I'd sat on the couch watched TV and lifted anything heavier than a fork.

Come Back

It took me less a year to fully recover.

I came back and squatted, bench pressed and deadlifted more weight than I had before.

How NOT To Have A Hernia

How NOT To Get A Hernia

If you want to make sure you don't get a hearnia.

1) Never lift anything heavier than a fork.

2) Never get off the couch or go out of the house.

That almost guarantees you will never have a hernia.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

EDIT TO PREVIOUS POST

Due to the 10 minute rule of post being locked in, I was unable to edit my previous post. So, I am REPOSTING IT.

Kenny Croxdale

Maybe a bit depends also on whether you button you belt superextra tight or a bit loose?

Wrong!

No matter how you twist this, your physician is wrong.

Genetic Weakness

As bjg noted, the majority of hernia's are genetic.

That means they are an accident waiting to happen.

Two Hernias

I've been powerlifting since 1969. I had a hearnia on my right side in 1995. The hernia was due to a "genetic weakness".

I had another hernia on my left side last year.

Blame Your Parents

This is one time, I can blame my parents. In other word, it was a gift from my parents.

Pick Better Parents

Next time, I am picking parents with better genetics...who are rich.

I'd much rather inherite than work for it.

Come Back

It took me less a year to fully recover in 1995.

I came back and squatted, bench pressed and deadlifted more weight than I had before.

How NOT To Have A Hernia

Those who have hernias are have a genetic weakness.

Lifting heavy things (participating in sports) expoes you to that weakness.

If you want to decrease you changes or elimiate you chances of NOT getting a hernia...

1) Never lift anything heavier than a fork with some food on it.

2) Never get off the couch or go out of the house.

That almost guarantees you will never have a hernia.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[bjg]

thanx to kenny for info on types of belts.
...and to add: i know a couch potato who got a hernia from just sneezing! that was about the most intense effort he had ever done

 

[fufu]

Good elaboration Kenny.

I also want to add to your point about holding breath. To reap the benefits of intra-abdominal pressure by holding your breath, breath INTO your diaphragm, filling your belly. Do not breath tightly in your chest. You want an anterior excursion of the abs (abs pushing forward, creating a belly).

Simple test to differentiate between upper chest breathing and diaphragmatic breathing:
Sit down, put one hand flat on your chest, and put your other hand flat on your abs. Practice breathing in such a way that you fill your belly with air (causing your lower hand to move forward). You want little to no movement forward with your upper hand (the hand on your chest).

Many people have breathing pattern disorders where they will want to breath into their upper chest using accessory respiratory muscles, and this is not beneficial to core stabilization. Diaphragmatic engagement needs to be a conscious effort with each breath during training.

 

[chesty4]

Medical Doctors

This is one of the largest, most arrogant groups there is.

They are clueless when with nutrition, exercise physiology, physical therapy and pharmaceuticals.

That's been my personal experience also. I've gotten better results monitoring my TRT on my own than waiting for the doctor to figure out he was poking at it with a stick.

 

[Z499]

so would a lever belt be better than a one that tapers down into a normal buckle?

 

[fqqs]

ok I understand. but THEORETICALLY lifting belt increases chance of getting hernia? it is kinda logical

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

so would a lever belt be better than a one that tapers down into a normal buckle?

Taper Belts

Go back and re-read my post. A belt that tapers does NOT give you as much surface area to push against with your abdominal.

That means you do NOT get as much Intra-Abdominal Pressure.

Greater Statility = Greater Force Production

One of the keys to producing more force (strength, power, speed) is stability.

As fufu stated, Intra-Abdominal Pressure provides greate spine statility.

Trunk Core Leakage

As Stuwart McGill has stated, if your core "sways in the breeze" of a heavy load (squat, deadlift, shoulder press, etc) "Leakage" occurs.

Leakage is with weak point in the chain when things start to fall apart. In this of lifting weights, that you produce less force (strength, power, speed) in the movement.

So, a strong core is vital. A powerlifting belt magnifies the Intra-Abdominal Pressure allowing you to produce more force.

Stay Tight

Lifters often scream at each other to "Stay Tight". Tightness produces stiffness which insures there is NO Leakage in force production. In other words, you going to lift more if you stay tight.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

ok I understand. but THEORETICALLY lifting belt increases chance of getting hernia? it is kinda logical

THEORETICALLY

Theoretically, a plane could crash on your house when you sleeping and kills you.

Genetic Weakness

There NO theory here, just plain fact.

If you gentically predisposed to a hearnia, your chances of having a hearnia are great.

If you have NO genetic weakness, you'll most likely never have a problem.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[1superman]

I also want to add to your point about holding breath. To reap the benefits of intra-abdominal pressure by holding your breath, breath INTO your diaphragm, filling your belly. Do not breath tightly in your chest. You want an anterior excursion of the abs (abs pushing forward, creating a belly).

Simple test to differentiate between upper chest breathing and diaphragmatic breathing:
Sit down, put one hand flat on your chest, and put your other hand flat on your abs. Practice breathing in such a way that you fill your belly with air (causing your lower hand to move forward). You want little to no movement forward with your upper hand (the hand on your chest).

Many people have breathing pattern disorders where they will want to breath into their upper chest using accessory respiratory muscles, and this is not beneficial to core stabilization. Diaphragmatic engagement needs to be a conscious effort with each breath during training.

This is an important point you made sir. You are very wise . Anyone who does not do this correctly, is asking for injury.

 

[fqqs]

THANK YOU KENNY!!

You;re very informative.


So if you have this routine to do, iin which lifts would you use a belt?

Monday - Back & Biceps

Deadlifts - 3x4-6
Weighted Pull-ups - 2x4-6
T-Bar Rows - 2x4-6
Pull-Downs - 2x4-6
Barbell Curls - 2x4-6
Dumbbell Curls - 2x4-6

Wednesday - Chest, Shoulders & Triceps

Flat Bench Press - 3x4-6
Incline Bench Press - 2x4-6
Weighted Dips - 1x4-6
Military Press - 2x4-6
Side Lateral Raises - 2x4-6
Lying Triceps Extensions - 2x4-6
Tricep Cable Pushdowns - 2x4-6

Friday - Legs, Calves & Abs

Squats - 3x4-6
Leg Press - 2x4-6
Stiff Leg Deadlifts - 2x4-6
Standing Calf Raises - 2x6-8
Seated Calf Raises - 2x6-8
Cable Crunches - 2x8-10
Hanging Leg Raises - 2 Max

 

[Piss and Vinegar]

Your doctor is right.

One doctor told me that weightlifing belt can CAUSE hernia rather than prevent it. I mean it increases intra abdominal pressure, but its width is only 10-15cm. So areas above and below a belt are more vulnerable to hernia when you use your belt than when you dont.

What do you think? I never used one and wondered about using it, but now im confused

An increase in intra-abdominal pressure increases the likelihood of having a hernia. As Kenny Croxdale has pointed out, the belt increase intra-abdominal pressure. Also, as Kenny Croxdale pointed out, the only way to be all but certain to never get a hernia is to keep physical activity extremely low, because that will keep intra-abdominal pressure to a minimum.

Thus, if you are predisposed to getting a hernia, the use of a belt makes it more likely to happen.

Will use of a belt guarantee you suffer a hernia? No.
Will predisposition to herniation guarantee you will suffer a hernia? No.
Will refraining from using a belt guarantee you never suffer a hernia? No.
Does that mean you should never use a belt? No, it's up to you if the benefits outweigh the risks.
But the simple truth of the matter for these types of hernias is that the organ pushes through the weak spot very often as a result of increased pressure, and use of a belt is one way that such pressure can be increased.

 

[fqqs]

An increase in intra-abdominal pressure increases the likelihood of having a hernia. As Kenny Croxdale has pointed out, the belt increase intra-abdominal pressure. Also, as Kenny Croxdale pointed out, the only way to be all but certain to never get a hernia is to keep physical activity extremely low, because that will keep intra-abdominal pressure to a minimum.

Thus, if you are predisposed to getting a hernia, the use of a belt makes it more likely to happen.

Will use of a belt guarantee you suffer a hernia? No.
Will predisposition to herniation guarantee you will suffer a hernia? No.
Will refraining from using a belt guarantee you never suffer a hernia? No.
Does that mean you should never use a belt? No, it's up to you if the benefits outweigh the risks.
But the simple truth of the matter for these types of hernias is that the organ pushes through the weak spot very often as a result of increased pressure, and use of a belt is one way that such pressure can be increased.

hmm now I dont know what to do

 

[bjg]

1- intra abdominal pressure will not increase the risk for hernia , it is the over stretching of the membrane around the muscles that will cause it, which is due to UNEVEN abdominal pressure,
on the contrary the belt evens out the pressure on both side of the abdominal wall, example put a paper flat on the wall and push on it it will not tear, however around the edges of the belt you may have uneven pressure and overstretching, but this is only in very few exercises and also if the belt is not wide and of good quality.
2-also if you are not predisposed genetically to hernias , it is very difficult to get one
3- continuous pressure is not as important as sudden uncontrolled pressure, anything sudden and uncontrolled ( you are not prepared for it) like a simple cough will cause a significant impact on the abdominal membrane. In bodybuilding all the moves are smooth with no jerking of the weight, unless you are doing clean and jerk type of lifts.

 

[JerseyDevil]

From my years of lifting my experience imo a belt is a good thing. No documentation, no cited research, just my own personal experience. The one thing I will say is that I used to tighten the belt way too much and on hard sets the contraction almost hurt. I could see where that may cause problems.

I've since learned to use the sweet zone, where the belt gives decent support at that point and not worry if it feels slightly loose when relaxed.

 

[fqqs]

From my years of lifting my experience imo a belt is a good thing. No documentation, no cited research, just my own personal experience. The one thing I will say is that I used to tighten the belt way too much and on hard sets the contraction almost hurt. I could see where that may cause problems.

I've since learned to use the sweet zone, where the belt gives decent support at that point and not worry if it feels slightly loose when relaxed.

ok guys, thanks.

i will try one and see how it goes.

this is the most common type of belt

Do you think it is ok? or sth else would be better?

also if i lift 130kg x 6 on squats without belt how much wweight would I add with belt?

 

[fqqs]

or sth like this...

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

or sth like this...

Belt Width

The top belt with the width the same in the front as in the back will provide the greatest support.

Remember, spine statilization is provided by pushing the abdominals against the belt. Thus, the greater the width (surface area) the more contact space for the abdominals to push against.

Transevse Abdominal

You're Transvese Abdominal is your body's build in "weightliting belt". Performing abdominal work increases strengthens you're Transverse Abdominals.

A weight belt to does works the Transverse Abdominals. By pushing against the belt is an Isometric Abominal Action. However, you need to strength the Transverse with other movements, as well.

Synergist Effect

Wearing a belt combined with strong Transverse Abdominals dramatically increases spine stability. It's like adding 2 +2 and getting 5.
The sum is greater than it parts.

With that said, training without a belt works the Transverse Abdominal, as well. Take that into consideration when training.

Leakage

The main thing a strong core and belt does is prevent "Leakage" in a movement such as: Squats, Deadlifts, Over Head Press, etc.

Running In Sand

Think of "Leakage" as running in sand. As you push against the sand with your feet, it give out from underneath you.

You end up running slower in sand because because it give way under your feet, a "Leakage" in strength and power.

Unstable Core

Much the same occurs with an unstable core.

Running On Concerete

Your going to run faster because it is a much more stable surface. The harder the surface, the more strength and power you produce.

One of the things that has make Track Sprinter faster is harder tracks. They are able produce more power and speed on harder tracks.

Strong Core

A strong core enables you to drive up in a squat without losing power.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

also if i lift 130kg x 6 on squats without belt how much wweight would I add with belt?

Over time it will increase your lift. It hard to say how much. It will be some but nothing earth shattering.

Kenny Croxdale