Lifting while sore?

[Snake_Eyes]

I do have scientific evidence beyond the anecdotal evidence of those under my guidance which I could provide to back my position.

However, I do feel that it would fall upon deaf ears if I presented it as an argument since you already seem incapable of accepting that what I'm saying not only can work and has worked, but continues to work.

All I can do is present the information if requested and hope that people here are better at critical thinking than you are.

Though I am interested in knowing how using restorative techniques will "hinder" any positive effect of training.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Snake_Eyes
I do have scientific evidence beyond the anecdotal evidence of those under my guidance which I could provide to back my position.

However, I do feel that it would fall upon deaf ears if I presented it as an argument since you already seem incapable of accepting that what I'm saying not only can work and has worked, but continues to work.

All I can do is present the information if requested and hope that people here are better at critical thinking than you are.

Though I am interested in knowing how using restorative techniques will "hinder" any positive effect of training.

Yeah, restorative techniques like massage maybe, but extra work when a body needs rest in order to recover from the incredible demands made on it from lifting weights. Sorry, don't buy it.

Go ahead and present you scientific evidence to make your point. Maybe someone on here will buy it. Just not me.

 

[Training God]

I think the point being made Go Pro, is regardless of whether you agree or not it works. It's worked for him and his clients. So trying to argue that it doesn't is pointless.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by PowermanDL
I think the point being made Go Pro, is regardless of whether you agree or not it works. It's worked for him and his clients. So trying to argue that it doesn't is pointless.

I told him in a previous post that if his plan works for him than God Bless! In essence saying just what you said.

In my opinion, however, based on MY research and my 16 years of training myself and 12 years of training clients from seniors to competitive athletes (and I've tried every which way), that his methodology while interesting, is not the most productive...not at least for the majority of people out there.

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by gopro

In my opinion, however, based on MY research and my 16 years of training myself and 12 years of training clients from seniors to competitive athletes (and I've tried every which way), that his methodology while interesting, is not the most productive...not at least for the majority of people out there.

*** Who's to say what is or what isn't the most productive method for the exercising population?

Your research, clients and experience do not make up the majority, only a minority. That being said you are only speaking for what has worked for you, not what works and what doesn't for everyone out there.

If it works for him but goes against what you have found through experience, this shows that you have not tried every which way. Otherwise it would have worked for you.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by PowermanDL


*** Who's to say what is or what isn't the most productive method for the exercising population?

Your research, clients and experience do not make up the majority, only a minority. That being said you are only speaking for what has worked for you, not what works and what doesn't for everyone out there.

If it works for him but goes against what you have found through experience, this shows that you have not tried every which way. Otherwise it would have worked for you.

Maki...you don't seem to understand something. Every "expert" in the field of exercise (or any field for that matter) does what he or she thinks is BEST. Each of us believe we are using the techniques that are the MOST productive available. Charles Poliquin thinks his are best...Mike Mentzer thought his were best...Ian King thinks his are best...Louis Simmons thinks his are best...I think mine are best.

Now of course we all revise things as we go along as we see fit...but it is based on OUR research and our experiences. Now, if the "expert" is smart, he or she will be willing to try others' methods to see how they work...to see if they might be incorporated into their own theories. A really great "expert" will truly experiment with EVERTHING out there to have a complete knowledge of all techniques and protocols.

Well, this is exactly how I handle myself in the world of fitness training. Talking about Snake specifically...I have tried protocols similar to his and I have discarded it as I feel it is less than optimal. I have done that with many others ideas as well. Snake can do that with mine if he likes as can you.

My point is I feel I am one of the best at what I do and therefore I will express my opinions as being the best out there. This is how I operate and this has helped make me successful. Its not conceit, its confidence based on years and years of passion for fitness training.

Love me or hate me, thats how it is.

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by gopro


Maki...you don't seem to understand something. Every "expert" in the field of exercise (or any field for that matter) does what he or she thinks is BEST. Each of us believe we are using the techniques that are the MOST productive available. Charles Poliquin thinks his are best...Mike Mentzer thought his were best...Ian King thinks his are best...Louis Simmons thinks his are best...I think mine are best.

*** In this field there is no such thing as "best." All there are, is methods that work and don't work so well.
It's that simple. All these experts you've mentioned minus Mike Mentzer do not feel their methods are the best. You need to read more of their stuff. Of course if you can quote them I'd be interested to see where they've said that.

Now of course we all revise things as we go along as we see fit...but it is based on OUR research and our experiences. Now, if the "expert" is smart, he or she will be willing to try others' methods to see how they work...to see if they might be incorporated into their own theories. A really great "expert" will truly experiment with EVERTHING out there to have a complete knowledge of all techniques and protocols.

*** Unfortunately it is impossible to try every method out there. To say you have is foolhardy. In fact, to say anyone has is naive.

Well, this is exactly how I handle myself in the world of fitness training. Talking about Snake specifically...I have tried protocols similar to his and I have discarded it as I feel it is less than optimal. I have done that with many others ideas as well. Snake can do that with mine if he likes as can you.

My point is I feel I am one of the best at what I do and therefore I will express my opinions as being the best out there. This is how I operate and this has helped make me successful. Its not conceit, its confidence based on years and years of passion for fitness training.

*** You can not express your beliefs to be the best out there if it flies in the face of emperical/scientific evidence. In otherwords, you are saying that your way is better even if Snake has proven his to be effective. How is that possible?

As for your opinion being expressed as being the "best" that is a big statement to profess to everyone. Opinions are merely closely held beliefs based upon personal experience which vary from person to person. Therefore by your very definition everyones methods are the best. Which makes everyone an expert.

Love me or hate me, thats how it is.

*** This has nothing to do with love or hate.

 

[gopro]

Oh Maki...you have far too much time on your hands. Just drop it. I don't have time for your nonsense.

 

[Scotty the Body]

So what do you think of Snakes theory on it Powerman?

Do you think its the better (I didn't say best ) thing to do to aid recovery or would rest be the better option?

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Just to clarify, to avoid any possible misunderstanding: That protocol is only one of many I use and have used to facilitate restoration.

Much like every method used in strength training, there is a time and a place for it. The specific protocol I outlined is one designed to A) help the lifter manage or reduce body fat without a drastic reduction in calories while developing strength, when reducing calories could affect performance, B) facilitate recovery after intensive training, and C) increase the anaerobic work capacity of the body, both as a whole and in terms of individual muscle groups. As such, there are specific times and durations for which this method should be employed, as with ANY regimen.

Again, to make the blanket statement that this method is wholly and entirely ineffectual is closed-minded and short-sighted. It's all about context.

I'm going to avoid commenting on your comparisons of your results being somehow "better" than mine. That argument, used as it is without any objective backing, is grasping at straws, and the last resort of the man with no tangible case.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Snake_Eyes
Just to clarify, to avoid any possible misunderstanding: That protocol is only one of many I use and have used to facilitate restoration.

Much like every method used in strength training, there is a time and a place for it. The specific protocol I outlined is one designed to A) help the lifter manage or reduce body fat without a drastic reduction in calories while developing strength, when reducing calories could affect performance, B) facilitate recovery after intensive training, and C) increase the anaerobic work capacity of the body, both as a whole and in terms of individual muscle groups. As such, there are specific times and durations for which this method should be employed, as with ANY regimen.

Again, to make the blanket statement that this method is wholly and entirely ineffectual is closed-minded and short-sighted. It's all about context.

I'm going to avoid commenting on your comparisons of your results being somehow "better" than mine. That argument, used as it is without any objective backing, is grasping at straws, and the last resort of the man with no tangible case.

I said it before and I'll say it again...if your methods work for you and those you train, than God Bless...more power to you...don't fix it if it ain't broke...yada, yada, yada...

However, trust me. I've explored the methodology you speak of...decided there are better ways...discarded it from my arsenal...moved on to bigger and better things.

End of story. End of argument. End of the line.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Some how I highly doubt your arrogance is truly justified by your results. Nor do I believe that your methodology has been as comprehensive as you claim.

However that is not the point of this thread. If you cannot offer more than vague anecdotal reports to detract from what I'm stating, then please refrain from discouraging others in pursuing its use.

Thank you.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Snake_Eyes
Some how I highly doubt your arrogance is truly justified by your results. Nor do I believe that your methodology has been as comprehensive as you claim.

However that is not the point of this thread. If you cannot offer more than vague anecdotal reports to detract from what I'm stating, then please refrain from discouraging others in pursuing its use.

Thank you.

Believe whatever you wish...oh, and I'll discourage or encourage others exactly as I see fit.

Your welcome