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Man I'm lost as hell...

Bkhall79

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I have looked at so many different workout plans and splits and what-not, I think I am more confused now than before I started. About myself....
6'1 260lbs. Roughly 30% BF. 30 years old. I take in around 3500 cals/day. I have been working out 3 days/week. Usually something like this plan.
Mon - chest/tri
Wed. - Legs/abs/shoulders
Fri - Back/bi
Then start that over again following monday.

I am mainly wanting to lose the gut and drop lbs. I dont like doing ALL cardio so I was trying to go for mainly lifting in my routine. ???
I hope I have given enough info to not get flamed into oblivion. lol
Thanks!
 
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I have looked at so many different workout plans and splits and what-not, I think I am more confused now than before I started. About myself....
6'1 260lbs. Roughly 30% BF. 30 years old. I take in around 3500 cals/day. I have been working out 3 days/week. Usually something like this plan.
Mon - chest/tri
Wed. - Legs/abs
Fri - Back/bi
Then start that over again following monday.

I am mainly wanting to lose the gut and drop lbs. I dont like doing ALL cardio so I was trying to go for mainly lifting in my routine. ???
I hope I have given enough info to not get flamed into oblivion. lol
Thanks!


The experts here will have to help you on specifics, but I can suggest, from personal experience, to start using the Versaclimber, if your club has one. If not, and you can afford it, buy one. Never in my life have I used such an ass-kicking machine, a full body workout if it has adjustable tension, and the fat literally melts away if you use HIT (check BUILT'S page for info on this). To me, all other forms of cardio are boring as hell. On the Versaclimber, though, you're literally fighting for your fucking life most of the time, no time to get bored. Most of the Special Ops pros use it, as do a lot of MMA pros. Lots of gyms don't have them because they're such killers, people don't use them.
 
you have to set some goals for yourself first. first of all you have to drop your bf% down before you start lifting seriously. I was kinda the same situation you were in now couple years ago bro. I'm 6 feet tall and back then I was 220 lb with 32% bf. I went on a diet for one month, decrease my carbs and fat intake. I was hitting the gym 5 times a week, doing one hour cardio and half hour lifting, not heavy but light just to keep the muscles working. as for you I suggest you do something like that, lifting will not help you drop your bf% at all, only cardio and diet is the key. onc your bf% has dropped down to below 20% then you can start lifting seriously.
 
I would agree, you are lost as hell. Your main goal is to reduce your body fat. Your question is one regarding diet, not training. You can lose body fat without training if your diet is good, but not vice versa. If you're not losing body fat then your diet is the problem not your training. I'm not saying that weight training and cardio won't help you lose weight just saying they are not the deciding factor, which is your diet. You should ask for help in the diet and nutrition forum.
 
The experts here will have to help you on specifics, but I can suggest, from personal experience, to start using the Versaclimber, if your club has one. If not, and you can afford it, buy one. Never in my life have I used such an ass-kicking machine, a full body workout if it has adjustable tension, and the fat literally melts away if you use HIT (check BUILT'S page for info on this). To me, all other forms of cardio are boring as hell. On the Versaclimber, though, you're literally fighting for your fucking life most of the time, no time to get bored. Most of the Special Ops pros use it, as do a lot of MMA pros. Lots of gyms don't have them because they're such killers, people don't use them.

So this machine has the uncanny ability to target only the metabolic processes that burn lipids? Please go further.
 
I would agree, you are lost as hell. Your main goal is to reduce your body fat. Your question is one regarding diet, not training. You can lose body fat without training if your diet is good, but not vice versa. If you're not losing body fat then your diet is the problem not your training. I'm not saying that weight training and cardio won't help you lose weight just saying they are not the deciding factor, which is your diet. You should ask for help in the diet and nutrition forum.

...............^what he said
 
So this machine has the uncanny ability to target only the metabolic processes that burn lipids? Please go further.

Prior to looking it up, I had only a vague idea what lipids are. Your question is couched in a way that suggests I'm full of shit, and have no idea of what I'm talking about. In terms of the science of metabolism and weight loss, you are at least half right. However, it terms of personal experience (I referred to that in my post) my suggestion is equally on the mark -- as it applies to me, and, potentially, to others searching for a great way to burn calories. The Versaclimber has the uncanny ability to kick one's caloric/cardio ass, and also to motivate one onto higher levels of performance. In the grand scheme of things, I prefer results to the esoterica of physiology. As also mentioned in my post, I will leave that to you and the other experts. If that's bad, then I don't want to do right. Have you tried one?

p.s. No, I'm not involved with the company in any way, shape or form. I paid retail for mine, and would happily pay five times the price after a year of using that ball-breaker
 
I dont mean to give ya tough love here, but, working with weights is good for you obviously, but if your real goal is to drop that belly and lose some BF% your gonna have to kick the cardio in. Or do supersets with minimal rest in between so your heartrate is up throughout the whole workout. But you will still need cardio. Your goal at the moment shouldn't be to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time, doing weights is a good thing no doubt, but I would say cardio should override weights right now at 30%, then once you get down to a more comfortable zone (20% or so) then get on the weights and build your physique from there. Remember weight loss is probably 70% diet maybe more. Eat right and be strict on yourself and you will melt the fat away even with diet alone.
 
I dont mean to give ya tough love here, but, working with weights is good for you obviously, but if your real goal is to drop that belly and lose some BF% your gonna have to kick the cardio in. Or do supersets with minimal rest in between so your heartrate is up throughout the whole workout. But you will still need cardio. Your goal at the moment shouldn't be to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time, doing weights is a good thing no doubt, but I would say cardio should override weights right now at 30%, then once you get down to a more comfortable zone (20% or so) then get on the weights and build your physique from there. Remember weight loss is probably 70% diet maybe more. Eat right and be strict on yourself and you will melt the fat away even with diet alone.

No, weight loss is 100% diet.
 
I would agree, you are lost as hell. Your main goal is to reduce your body fat. Your question is one regarding diet, not training. You can lose body fat without training if your diet is good, but not vice versa. If you're not losing body fat then your diet is the problem not your training. I'm not saying that weight training and cardio won't help you lose weight just saying they are not the deciding factor, which is your diet. You should ask for help in the diet and nutrition forum.

I'm with Push and Pull here. Very well stated. Diet is the main factor.
 
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That's a good sentiment but, it's not factually correct. If you burn more calories than you consume, you're going to lose weight. That means you can:

Keep current activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
Increase activity + consume current calories = lose weight
Increase activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight

What bothers me is that people focus solely on weight when they should be focused on what TYPE of weight they're losing. Are they losing fat or muscle? Body fat percentage is a MUCH more important number than just a person's weight. And on that I'd completely agree with you, it's 100% diet.

No it is factually true. You're diet must be correct in order for you to lose weight.

Keep current activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
A correct diet for weight loss will result in weight loss.

Increase activity + consume current calories = lose weight
Correct so you must keep your calories at their current level. So you must have the correct diet in order for this to work.

Increase activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
This will result is faster weight loss, than just having a correct diet alone.

If your diet is not correct, then you will not lose weight.
 
No it is factually true. You're diet must be correct in order for you to lose weight.

Keep current activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
A correct diet for weight loss will result in weight loss.

Increase activity + consume current calories = lose weight
Correct so you must keep your calories at their current level. So you must have the correct diet in order for this to work.

Increase activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
This will result is faster weight loss, than just having a correct diet alone.

If your diet is not correct, then you will not lose weight.

The third is not always true. There are hormonal changes involved in overtraining and caloric restriction that can interfere with weight loss.

Dieting is the best way to lose weight because it is the most sustainable. How long can you fight off the hunger doing hours of cardio everyday? It's not that easy. Controlling your diet will give you a long-term solution.
 
The third is not always true. There are hormonal changes involved in overtraining and caloric restriction that can interfere with weight loss..

I would say in general it's true as long as they're trying to kill themselves.

Dieting is the best way to lose weight because it is the most sustainable. How long can you fight off the hunger doing hours of cardio everyday? It's not that easy. Controlling your diet will give you a long-term solution.

Not only that if you're say 30% bf and on a maintenance diet and then add cardio to lose weight. At first you'll lose weight then you're maintenance diet will be lower than it was previously, so you add more cardio to offset this. How long can you do this? Are you going to turn into fucking Carl Lewis? There is no doubt that at some point you would have to address your diet in order too continue to lose weight.
 
No it is factually true. You're diet must be correct in order for you to lose weight.

Keep current activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
A correct diet for weight loss will result in weight loss.

Increase activity + consume current calories = lose weight
Correct so you must keep your calories at their current level. So you must have the correct diet in order for this to work.

Increase activity + consume fewer calories = lose weight
This will result is faster weight loss, than just having a correct diet alone.

If your diet is not correct, then you will not lose weight.


I deleted that post because I screwed up and didn't read your post #4 first. Yep, we're in agreement. :thumb:
 
Not only that if you're say 30% bf and on a maintenance diet and then add cardio to lose weight. At first you'll lose weight then you're maintenance diet will be lower than it was previously, so you add more cardio to offset this. How long can you do this? Are you going to turn into fucking Carl Lewis? There is no doubt that at some point you would have to address your diet in order too continue to lose weight.

Yeah, and people don't realize how time consuming cardio can become. Back when I was training for triathlons, I was in the pool and on the road for 3-4 hours a day, sometimes more. Who has time to train like that?

Add to that the overuse injuries. I laugh anytime someone recommends jogging to an overweight person. I was injured all the time running at a lean 170 lbs.
 
Yeah, and people don't realize how time consuming cardio can become. Back when I was training for triathlons, I was in the pool and on the road for 3-4 hours a day, sometimes more. Who has time to train like that?

Add to that the overuse injuries. I laugh anytime someone recommends jogging to an overweight person. I was injured all the time running at a lean 170 lbs.

Athletes who train like that have been doing it for years, if not their whole life. Like you said, they/you were at healthy weight levels and injuries happen. If you're overweight and out of shape, and then think you're gonna train like someone who's been training for years, you're gonna get hurt. That's where clichés such as "train smarter not harder" come from.
 
I'm 6'4" and 262lbs, I'm not trying to lose any lbs. I lost 5 lbs last week and freaked the fu*k out. So good luck with your weight loss.
 
BMR/TDEE formula:

Let’s start with BMR. This is your Basal Metabolic Rate. AKA – how many calories you burn each day by just sitting on your ass. In order to figure out your BMR, you need to know what your lean body mass is. In turn, you need to know what your body fat percentage is.

If you don’t know your body fat percentage, go to your gym and get tested (please don’t use electronic scales to get your bf % checked, they're horrible). If you don’t have a gym that offers this service; ask me and I’ll give you a pretty good estimate.

With your bf % in hand, here’s the formula:

BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)

Total weight x bf % in decimal form = total bf weight

Total weight - total bf weight = total lean body mass

For example:

I am 6'1 210 lbs at 10% body fat... so I would multiply 210 by .10 (converted from percent to decimal) = 21 lbs
210 – 21 = 189 lbs lean body weight

189 / 2.2 = 86.0 lean mass in kg

370 + (21.6 x 86) = 2227.6 BMR (this is high for the average person)

Now that we have a BMR figure, we can move on to TDEE. Total Daily Energy Expenditure. This is how many calories we actually use during the day via our BMR and activities such as work, exercise and various tasks. We can figure this number out with simple math but be honest because this figure is to be the cornerstone of your diet and healthy lifestyle. We need to determine your activity level. We’ll choose from a few levels:

§ If you are sedentary (little or no exercise): Calorie - Calculation = BMR x 1.2
§ If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
§ If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
§ If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
§ If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

For example:

I train with weights 5 days for 90 minutes per week. I play hockey three times per week
for 90 minutes. I do 60 minutes of cardio training 5 times per week as well. I also practice my sport 3 times per week for 90 minutes. Either via skating or puck/shooting drills. All are high-intensity. I am between very and extra active. Let’s say BMR x 1.8. My TDEE is 4010.

In terms of food choices, here goes:

I love analogies. Let’s use a good one. Think of your perfect body as a house that you must build. You’ve figured out your BMR and TDEE, so you know the exact specs of the property you have to work with. You know how exercise affects weight loss and how much of a caloric deficit/surplus we must create to lose/gain said weight; so you know how to build - you understand architecture. You also know the pace you intend on losing/gaining weight at based on these other factors, so you know it will be harder to get your house built in weeks as opposed to months. The only thing left is the tools/building material you must use and because you don’t know how to eat, you still can’t build anything. At least, not well. Sure, you can starve yourself for a few months but you’ll just gain all the weight back in a couple weeks of binge drinking and shitty eating on a vacation – you’re house will fall down!

So, let’s talk tools baby. Let’s talk food. First off, there are only 3 types of foods/macronutrients. Protein. Carbohydrates. Fat. That’s it.

Protein – 4 calories per gram - Building material. Bricks. You can’t gain energy from protein, you can only use it to build muscle/skin/hair/nails. It’s basically just amino acids and it’s what our bodies are made of. As such, we need lots of it. 1g of protein per body lb is a good number to shoot for . Go as high as 2g per body lb if you’re lifting weights and trying to build muscle. For example, I am 207 lbs and I eat between 300-400 grams per day. Our body can only break down so much at one time however, so we want to eat 20-40 grams of protein in every meal, several times per day. Protein, being building material only and not energy/labor – the body can rarely find a reason for it to be stored as fat. If you must over-eat – make it lean meat/fish.

Carbs – 4 calories per gram - Think of these as human labor for your house. Think of sugar as dudes you pick up out front of home depot and oatmeal as a skilled carpenter. Both are carbs, both serve very different purposes. Carbs help transport essential nutrients to the muscles, create glycogen stores, and as such, increase protein synthesis but do not build muscle; they are simply an energy source. As such, they should only be eaten/used when we need energy. Any carbs we ingest before bed or before watching a movie, or something sedentary are not used as energy, and as such, are more likely to be stored in the body as glycogen (glucose/water in our muscles that we will use when doing high-intensity exercise). Once our glycogen reserves are full, they will spill over and be stored as fat. Yes, they will make you fat. Carbs can be your best friend or your worst enemy.

Fats – 9 calories per gram - Like carbs, fats are an energy source, not a building material like protein. They provide nowhere near as much energy as carbs however. Ask anyone who's on a ketogenic diet. With regard to our house, think of fats as the glue/cement. They provide much needed essential fatty acids, which are great for joint/organ health and increase our protein synthesis. Going back to our analogy, cement/glue increases the effectiveness of bricks! If we give our bodies the right fats, it will be able to burn stored body fat quickly as it won’t see any use in keeping it. Remember, like carbs – not all fat is good and ALL fat is high in calories so watch out. A tablespoon of peanut butter can be a good addition to a meal. Snacking on 5-6 tablespoons, however, means you’ve just eaten over your TDEE for the day.

Acceptable proteins for your healthy lifestyle diet:

The goal is to eat lean protein. Meats/other sources low in fat/carbs.

§ Ground beef (93% lean or better)
§ Lean steak (Flank, flat iron, or top sirloin)
§ Bison sirloin (the highest quality red meat)
§ Chicken breast
§ Turkey breast
§ Tuna (canned or sushi grade)
§ Salmon
§ Tilapia (mostly all white fish)
§ All shellfish
§ Venison
§ Whey protein (post-workout recovery purposes only)
§ Casein/Cottage cheese (before bed only)

Black-List Protein sources. Do not eat these because they are high in fat. And not the
good kind we find in nuts and olive oil – I’m talking about cholesterol raising saturated
fat!

§ Bacon
§ Sausage
§ Expensive fat-marbled Steaks (Ribeye, Strip, Filet)
§ Pork and beef ribs
§ Pork/Lamb chops
§ Restaurant ground beef (80/20 fat – most burgers)
§ Duck
§ Chicken legs/thighs
§ Chicken skin
§ Cheese

Acceptable Carbs for your healthy lifestlyle:

Complex carbs are now your creed. These are slower-digesting, natural, low on the glycemic index carbohydrates that digest slowly and provide us with sustained energy. They do not drastically affect our blood sugar and do not cause insulin spikes. Thus our body sees no reason to store them as fat, it would rather burn them for energy. Simple carbs such as enriched white breads/pastas/rice/potatoes/sugars (including most fruit) cause insulin spikes and are high GI foods. They should not be eaten when on a strict diet. Fruit can be consumed early in the day or pre/post-workout because of it’s high nutritional value but should usually be avoided due to being a form of simple sugar. Remember, healthy, low-calorie foods aren’t always the correct foods and such is the case with fruit.

§ Oats/Oatmeal
§ Grits/Cornmeal
§ Unsalted/non-buttered popcorn (great, low-cal snack)
§ Sweet potato (the best choice)
§ Butternut squash
§ Whole wheat pasta (not enriched)
§ Organic whole wheat bread (not enriched wonder bread crap)
§ Brown rice
§ Ezekiel bread
§ Swedish grain bread
§ Gluten free bread
§ Wheat couscous
§ Corn
§ Quinoa
§ Lentils
§ Beans
§ Many more, look up the GI (glycemic index) for healthy choices

Black List:

§ White pasta
§ White bread
§ Baguette
§ Bagels
§ Cookies, cake, muffins, cupcakes, all sweets basically.
§ White couscous
§ White rice
§ You get the idea…

Don’t get discouraged upon reading this list. I still make desserts all the time with whole
grain flour and splenda. I buy bagels and baguettes at the health food store that use
complex carbs as a base. If you’re dedicated, you don’t have to miss out 100%

Acceptable fats for your healthy lifestyle:

We look for fat sources that are high in omega-3, 6, and 9 fatty acids. Also, many are high in protein. We do not want saturated fats such as butter, cream, meat fat. We don’t want test tube fats like trans (the worst). We want mono/polyunsaturated fats that our body can use for something other than calories. Remember, even good fats are high in calories.

§ Natural peanut butter (no sugar added, just roasted peanuts)
§ Natural almond butter
§ Cashews
§ Almonds
§ Peanuts
§ Flax seeds
§ Flax seed oil
§ Salmon and Trout (great fatty proteins)
§ Fish oil
§ Extra virgin olive oil (should be used on all veggies/salads)
§ Chia seeds
§ Grapeseed oil
§ Macadamia nut oil

Acceptable miscellaneous foods:

These foods don’t provide much as far as macronutrients but are great for adding vitamins/minerals and taste. Notice some of these other foods are dairy. Dairy is another animal’s milk. We lack the enzymes to digest it as they do and it’s high in fat/sugar. It should only be eaten early in the day for nutrient purposes with the exception of whey and casein (cottage cheese).

§ Skim milk (Hood brand is only 45 calories and 3g of sugar per cup)
§ Greek yogurt (no sugar added)
§ Berries (all berries are much lower in sugar than other fruits and packed with fiber/nutrients – eat berries)
§ Green Vegetables. These are technically carbs but they are packed with fiber (a type of carb that isn’t used as energy or stored). In bodybuilding/nutrition – we refer to most vegetables as fibrous carbohydrates. While a serving of Broccoli may have 6g of carbs, 5 are from fiber. Meaning that it contains only 1g of storable carbohydrates. In addition, green vegetables are a calorie neutral/negative food (our body uses more calories to digest them than they contain – think celery). Veggies should be eaten with every meal. Every day. If you do this, you can become almost impervious to getting sick. Some vegetables are better than others for healthy diets.
§ Many non-green vegetables. Most are fine – just check labels, some have a good bit of sugar and should be eaten in moderation only (carrots)
 
friend gave me this formula
 
I think that is overcomplicating things.

If you are currently losing weight, keep doing what you are doing so long as you can manage it. If you're not losing weight, cut back on your calories a bit and continue to track your progress.

There's really no reason to obfuscate things like this. :)
 
I think that is overcomplicating things.

If you are currently losing weight, keep doing what you are doing so long as you can manage it. If you're not losing weight, cut back on your calories a bit and continue to track your progress.

There's really no reason to obfuscate things like this. :)
:thumb:
I agree. As I always say, eschew obfuscation.

(reps for using "obfuscate" on a bodybuilding board btw, more for spelling it correctly)

legendkiller, I rely heavily on white rice for carbs. It's my pre and post workout carb of choice - glucose polymers, no fructose and very low fibre. It's perfect. :)
 
I think that is overcomplicating things.

If you are currently losing weight, keep doing what you are doing so long as you can manage it. If you're not losing weight, cut back on your calories a bit and continue to track your progress.

There's really no reason to obfuscate things like this. :)

just trying to help each there own
 
yeah things almost became Rocket Science, think I need a Degree from MIT, lol. I believe in the K.I.S.S. method = Keep/It/Simple/Stupid. If what your doing is working then continue, if not the make adjustments as needed and do research. Some times we can over-analyze a situation. IMO
 
If it's working, then milk it until theres no more milk, than try something different!
 
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