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My legs and lower back

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mike456

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My knees usually hurt after running, and my lower back is so weak I can't keep it arched while doing bent-over rows or deadlifts, and it usually feels weird. I think this is because my lower back/legs are to weak for my heavy bodyweight (230-235lbs 6ft), So I think if I get my legs/lower back stronger I will no longer have these problems. This may also be the reason why I cant do 1 good form bw full squat. So basically I need to strengthen my legs and lower back without squats or deadlifts. Luckily I am going to a gym soon and will have access to some machines. So this is going to be my lower workout.

Lower
Leg Press 5x3-5
Hyper-Extensions 5x3-5
Weighted Crunches 3x5
Calf Raises 3x5

Well I didn't see the gym yet but I am hoping they have the proper equipment for these exercises.

Questions:
If I get my legs/lowerback stronger will I no longer have these problems?
Are those good exercises/sets/reps for my goals?
Basically will my plan actually work?
 
no I never did them. Ok I will have a quad dominant day and a ham/hip domnant but what exercise can I do (since I have bad knees, and I cant do any type of squat).
All I can think of for the quads is leg press
 
Quad/Ab Day
Leg Press 5x3-5
Leg Extensions 3x5
Weighted Crunches 4x5
Calve Raises 3x5

Ham/Lower Back Day
Glute-Ham Raises 5x3-5
Leg Curls 3x5
Hyper-Extensions 4x5
Calve Raises 3x5

Hopefully the gym has all the equipment for these exercises (it is usual equipment to find in a gym right?), and hopefull I can do at least 3 bodyweight glute ham raises and at least 5 bodyweight hypers.
 
I would probably have to see you trying to perform a squat and various other movements to make the assesment. Even then, it would be somewhat of a guess.
 
Cowpimp- Ill be able to take a video as soon as my memory card gets back from the stupid camera company. Should I take a video of me attempting to do a squat with a bar on my back, and what other exercises?
 
mike456 said:
Cowpimp- Ill be able to take a video as soon as my memory card gets back from the stupid camera company. Should I take a video of me attempting to do a squat with a bar on my back, and what other exercises?
Click to expand...

The overhead squat is a good one. You can just hold a towel or something over your head as opposed to a weighted object. Try to get different angles too if at all possible, and do a couple repetitions at each angle.
 
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mike456 said:
My knees usually hurt after running,
Click to expand...

Not uncommon. Do something else less stressful on your knees.

mike456 said:
and my lower back is so weak I can't keep it arched while doing bent-over rows or deadlifts, and it usually feels weird.
Click to expand...

This will improve naturally over time. I had that problem when I first started working out. Could even do BOR's with just a bar without my lower back getting fatigued. Hypers and deadlifts will help, as will doing squats. Just keep lifting and it will get stronger.

mike456 said:
this is because my lower back/legs are to weak for my heavy bodyweight (230-235lbs 6ft), So I think if I get my legs/lower back stronger I will no longer have these problems. This may also be the reason why I cant do 1 good form bw full squat.
Click to expand...

That is more about fexibility in the hamstrings.

mike456 said:
So basically I need to strengthen my legs and lower back without squats or deadlifts.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Maybe some separate back/leg work will help. But, if you want to get stronger at squats/deadlifts then do squats/deadlifts. If you can't do them at all then it's a flexibility issue or you are trying to lift too much weight.
 
You would be amazed at the lacking core strength of some people. I started training a friend of mine recently on the side, and she also couldn't do a single bodyweight squat at first. I got her into it quick, but had to use some trickery. First, her motor patterns were terrible. I had to get her into sitting back and not sitting down. She also exhibited serious anterior weight bearing even when she was getting her hips back a bit more.

Her flexibility was fine, but once we got her going through the proper movements patterns and tried to take the boxes away she couldn't handle it. She would fall forward, she just couldn't stabilize herself. I had her try to do pile squats and her back was rounding horribly trying to pick up a 15 pound dumbbell. By doing plank variations (She couldn't hold the basic plank for more than about 5-10 seconds at first) and working the box squats for a while longer she eventually got it. Now she is squatting carrying light dumbbells on her shoulders and doing rack pulls at the lowest possible setting with a nice flat back.
 
CP- I got the card for my camera so I will be able to take a video, i tried the overhead squats with a towel but I can not even do 1. So should I just take a video of the attempt?
 
CowPimp said:
You would be amazed at the lacking core strength of some people. I started training a friend of mine recently on the side, and she also couldn't do a single bodyweight squat at first. I got her into it quick, but had to use some trickery. First, her motor patterns were terrible. I had to get her into sitting back and not sitting down. She also exhibited serious anterior weight bearing even when she was getting her hips back a bit more.

Her flexibility was fine, but once we got her going through the proper movements patterns and tried to take the boxes away she couldn't handle it. She would fall forward, she just couldn't stabilize herself. I had her try to do pile squats and her back was rounding horribly trying to pick up a 15 pound dumbbell. By doing plank variations (She couldn't hold the basic plank for more than about 5-10 seconds at first) and working the box squats for a while longer she eventually got it. Now she is squatting carrying light dumbbells on her shoulders and doing rack pulls at the lowest possible setting with a nice flat back.
Click to expand...

Thats crazy, but i think im starting to see the problem with a few people i know. A few of them cant squat or deadlift because they literally cant bend down that far without falling over. Amazing how critical core strength is.
 
CowPimp said:
You would be amazed at the lacking core strength of some people. I started training a friend of mine recently on the side, and she also couldn't do a single bodyweight squat at first. I got her into it quick, but had to use some trickery. First, her motor patterns were terrible. I had to get her into sitting back and not sitting down. She also exhibited serious anterior weight bearing even when she was getting her hips back a bit more.

Her flexibility was fine, but once we got her going through the proper movements patterns and tried to take the boxes away she couldn't handle it. She would fall forward, she just couldn't stabilize herself. I had her try to do pile squats and her back was rounding horribly trying to pick up a 15 pound dumbbell. By doing plank variations (She couldn't hold the basic plank for more than about 5-10 seconds at first) and working the box squats for a while longer she eventually got it. Now she is squatting carrying light dumbbells on her shoulders and doing rack pulls at the lowest possible setting with a nice flat back.
Click to expand...


Wow, I feel a bit better where I am at now!
 
mike456 said:
CP- I got the card for my camera so I will be able to take a video, i tried the overhead squats with a towel but I can not even do 1. So should I just take a video of the attempt?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Take it from different angles for a couple reps at each angle if possible.
 
Gazhole said:
Thats crazy, but i think im starting to see the problem with a few people i know. A few of them cant squat or deadlift because they literally cant bend down that far without falling over. Amazing how critical core strength is.
Click to expand...

A lot of times it is ankle or hip mobility problems, or both mobility and stability problems (My favorite).
 
CowPimp said:
A lot of times it is ankle or hip mobility problems, or both mobility and stability problems (My favorite).
Click to expand...

Its weird as anything. The one guy cant do anything lower than 1/4 squats, same sorta ROM with the deadlifts. He just literally falls over backwards if he gets any lower.

Ive told him to try just getting into that position with no weight using a wall for support, just to see if it helps. I suppose variations on those exercises would help aswell?

Like 1/4 squats and SLDLs? Just untill he is ABLE to do the full ROM variations.
 
I cannot squat my bodyweight.
 
Gazhole said:
Its weird as anything. The one guy cant do anything lower than 1/4 squats, same sorta ROM with the deadlifts. He just literally falls over backwards if he gets any lower.

Ive told him to try just getting into that position with no weight using a wall for support, just to see if it helps. I suppose variations on those exercises would help aswell?

Like 1/4 squats and SLDLs? Just untill he is ABLE to do the full ROM variations.
Click to expand...

You could try and see if he can handle sissy squats and maybe some leg pressing for now, but keep working on it. Unforuately, it is hard to really say what the problem is without watching, and even then it can be hard to determine.
 
CowPimp said:
You could try and see if he can handle sissy squats and maybe some leg pressing for now, but keep working on it. Unforuately, it is hard to really say what the problem is without watching, and even then it can be hard to determine.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i know what you mean.

Im gonna get him to a few things out anyway, like working on core strength and flexibility and stuff. He's never really had a constant exercise program either, so i think that might have a lot to do with it. After a while working hard and eating right i think he'll be able to at least start to handle them properly.

Cheers for the advice (again) CP! :thumb:
 
CP- I am 99% sure the reason I cannot do them is I have no balance.
When I was younger I could not even ride a bicycle because I had no balance, now I can ride a bike, but I cannot stand up and peddle (wich takes more balance), also I do hack squats ATG on my total gym, so I do not think it is a flexibility problem. Also when I try to do bw squats I find my self sticking my hands out or leaning forward for balance.

So what are some ways to increase balance? I am guessing strengthing my core muscles, right?

Also one time I was doing Standing BB Military Presses with my max at the time (80lbs), and I tipped over and fell (luckily there were no injuries).

Now after listing all those things I am 100% sure balance is my problem.
 
Just because you can squat deep on a hack squat machine doesn't mean you flexibility is good. You could still be doing things that are undesirable to compensate, and under a freeweight condition would cause you to fall over. I'm not saying flexibility is definitely your problem, but I'm just saying don't rule it out because of that.

Poor balance could be part of it, but it sort of sounds more like a core stability issue. Again, it's hard to see without seeing you do it. It might be a combination of things.
 
CP- if this helps any, I tried to do BW ATG Squats while holding on a pole for support, I was able to do them but it hurt my knees when I was all the way down, I had knee problems for a while and I am getting an x-ray on them tomorrow.
 
Gazhole said:
Thats crazy, but i think im starting to see the problem with a few people i know. A few of them cant squat or deadlift because they literally cant bend down that far without falling over. Amazing how critical core strength is.
Click to expand...


Lawl, that is me except my problem is in my feet, not my core. After I tore my ankle to shit the last time I haven't been able to do a proper squat since. I have to put 25lb plates on the floor and place my heels on them so that I can go parallel without falling over.

Doctor showed me the X-ray and said it is a bone spur sticking out of the front of my ankle which will never go away without surgery.
NP...I think there is nothing wrong with jacking up the back of your foot to compensate for the lack of mobility is fine.
 
mike456 said:
sorry here it is, tell me when your done watching it so I can delete it- http://youtube.com/watch?v=UcUR3GK04iI
Click to expand...
are your knees locking up??

you look very uncoordinated!! and the squat wasnt very smooth. it looked like your legs bent, then your waist bent and then your back arced back! :hmmm:

look ay your feet. they are shoulder legth apart and pointing out.

try standing with your feet just outside of your shoulders with your toes pointed straight. then spin your toes out, then spin your heel out so that your feet are pointed straight again.

now, get like a broom stick or something and place across your back in the position that the bar would be. grab the bar with both hands with your upper arms parrallel to the bar. pull down slightly on the bar and flex so that you feel your tris, shoulders and back lock in place (in a squat you would push so that the weight is ballanced across your back and your hands)


now in that position simply lower your butt down in a controlled manner. your knees waist and ankles should all move at the same time.

give that a shot, hope it helps.


ps. is that your sis laughing in the back. she sounds evil!! lol
 
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