haha, juggernaut wouldve had a good time with this thread.
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My training program - Lee Hayward tweaked
- Thread starter Eugene
- Start date
haha, juggernaut wouldve had a good time with this thread.
Eugene, you got some of the best advice in the world on this thread, tailored to your specifications.
I am delighted to know that you value a generic, off-the-shelf programme written by someone who makes a living selling training over advice tailored to your specifications by people who live the lifestyle. We have all been sucked into these plans before and come out the other side. Think about this for a moment - we like what we do so much that we offer it to others for free.
Best of luck with your goals. I guarantee you will not hit them if you ignore our advice. Given how much time we've collectively invested in you, it warms me that you will invest much of your own time fruitlessly.
I am delighted to know that you value a generic, off-the-shelf programme written by someone who makes a living selling training over advice tailored to your specifications by people who live the lifestyle. We have all been sucked into these plans before and come out the other side. Think about this for a moment - we like what we do so much that we offer it to others for free.
Best of luck with your goals. I guarantee you will not hit them if you ignore our advice. Given how much time we've collectively invested in you, it warms me that you will invest much of your own time fruitlessly.
stepaukas
Banned Member
eugene
some great points here about how doing squats will help your overall strength. i read all the posts and see how you just dont want to do them for your reasons given...
i just want to bring up a point from 35 years ago when my friend and i were in george turners gym here in st louis missouri doing bench presses, just building strength for our running. we both were pretty good x-country runners, and while at 159#'s, he benched 365#'s. george walked by and commented how that was one hell of a bench press. he quickly asked my friend ron how much he squatted, and ron said he dosent squat, thet he gets enough leg work running all his track and road workouts. george said if he started squatting, his bench would go up 20#'s..
squatting makes your whole body stronger..
s
some great points here about how doing squats will help your overall strength. i read all the posts and see how you just dont want to do them for your reasons given...
i just want to bring up a point from 35 years ago when my friend and i were in george turners gym here in st louis missouri doing bench presses, just building strength for our running. we both were pretty good x-country runners, and while at 159#'s, he benched 365#'s. george walked by and commented how that was one hell of a bench press. he quickly asked my friend ron how much he squatted, and ron said he dosent squat, thet he gets enough leg work running all his track and road workouts. george said if he started squatting, his bench would go up 20#'s..
squatting makes your whole body stronger..
s
Juggs is gone? Where to? Coincidence that is happened to be right when high school was starting back up? Just sayin
jehoverall
Registered
the thing is, as a n00b, if doing the Lee Hayward program will get you in the gym and a squat/deadlift/bench routine won't, then you should just do the damn Lee Hayward thing. the most important thing in weightlifting, as in life, is simply showing up. if anyone were to go to the gym 3 days a week for 3 months doing Lee Hayward's program, i am almost (almost!) positive he would see some gains.
by that time he will have realized how important whole-body compound movements like squat or deadlift are, so at that time he will be more receptive to what's been said on here. for on the Hayward routine, once you waste your "noob gains" your progress will stall; this will happen fast, and progress won't move for a long time. not only that, but you won't make nearly as much progress as you would if you'd done 5x5 or something similar. at that point the dude will hopefully get on a real life program like 5x5 or whatever built advocated, and will kick himself for having "wasted" his earlier efforts on Hayward. but whatever. if, instead of taking advantage of the wisdom of people who have done the same thing as what he now proposes and learned from it, he wants to experience it for himself, then i say go for it.
here's my experience. almost exactly 1.5 years ago i started out weight lifting/bb'ing on a totally stupid 4 day bodypart split that i got from a coach. i experienced little to no gains for several months. i think i put on maybe 2 pounds, going from mid 170's to high 170's.
i started reading about lifting. after months elapsed i realized the superiority of 5x5, and i've been on it ever since (or at least on a variation which utilizes the key aspects of 5x5 i.e. whole body compound movements for both neural recruitment and growth hormone release as well as injury prevention and functional strength etcetc). in the past 4 months alone i gained about 15 pounds of (mostly) lean muscle, added 70 pounds to my bench press (not a typo, though admittedly bench was a weak spot before) and a lot to my deadlift, increased my pull ups from 10 to 20+ etc. so there's no question that programs built around free weights and whole-body compound movements work. eugene will discover this himself eventually.
the point is there's no need to bully eugene into accepting weight lifting orthodoxy. if he wants to be a dumbass let him be a dumbass, provided he keeps going to the gym and working hard there. i'm certain that eventually he will come to realize the superiority of routines built around large compound lifts over the Hayward program. but at least he'll have learned something, at least he'll have continued lifting, and hopefully he'll get on the right track at last and make the gains he was always capable of making :/
by that time he will have realized how important whole-body compound movements like squat or deadlift are, so at that time he will be more receptive to what's been said on here. for on the Hayward routine, once you waste your "noob gains" your progress will stall; this will happen fast, and progress won't move for a long time. not only that, but you won't make nearly as much progress as you would if you'd done 5x5 or something similar. at that point the dude will hopefully get on a real life program like 5x5 or whatever built advocated, and will kick himself for having "wasted" his earlier efforts on Hayward. but whatever. if, instead of taking advantage of the wisdom of people who have done the same thing as what he now proposes and learned from it, he wants to experience it for himself, then i say go for it.
here's my experience. almost exactly 1.5 years ago i started out weight lifting/bb'ing on a totally stupid 4 day bodypart split that i got from a coach. i experienced little to no gains for several months. i think i put on maybe 2 pounds, going from mid 170's to high 170's.
i started reading about lifting. after months elapsed i realized the superiority of 5x5, and i've been on it ever since (or at least on a variation which utilizes the key aspects of 5x5 i.e. whole body compound movements for both neural recruitment and growth hormone release as well as injury prevention and functional strength etcetc). in the past 4 months alone i gained about 15 pounds of (mostly) lean muscle, added 70 pounds to my bench press (not a typo, though admittedly bench was a weak spot before) and a lot to my deadlift, increased my pull ups from 10 to 20+ etc. so there's no question that programs built around free weights and whole-body compound movements work. eugene will discover this himself eventually.
the point is there's no need to bully eugene into accepting weight lifting orthodoxy. if he wants to be a dumbass let him be a dumbass, provided he keeps going to the gym and working hard there. i'm certain that eventually he will come to realize the superiority of routines built around large compound lifts over the Hayward program. but at least he'll have learned something, at least he'll have continued lifting, and hopefully he'll get on the right track at last and make the gains he was always capable of making :/
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jmorrison
Registered
A couple questions/comments in order of importance:
1. WTF happened to Juggs?
2. After a 5 year layoff, jumping rope, walking, being tickled, even just vigorous anf furious masturbation would probably net you some gains. So your generic workout will probably get you some results, and you will be convinced that it is the greatest workout on the planet. More power to you. Whatever motivates you to get off the dissproportionately large ass and workout is a good thing.
3. No isolation based, generic workout created for assisted bodybuilders is going to compete with a tailored workout matched to your needs. Go to Builts pics. Look at them. Then look at them again. Then read her posts. Read them again. Learn. Come back and apologize, then faithfully follow her advice.
You. Will. See. Results.
Quickly, efficiently and with less effort than by throwing yourself mindlessly into a program built for the masses.
4. You asked for advice. You got advice. You discarded advice. Why are you here again? You specifically asked for opinions on your workout. If you were just going to say "I dont care if you think its bad, I thiink its awesome!" then why the hell did you ask?
5. I have gone from a barely human 265lb chub-monster, to a 209lb, muscular beast (rawr) in 7 months, UNASSISTED, by listening to Built. It's not too late to pull your head out of your ass, take a deep breath, and listen to those with more knowledge, which basically encompasses every person in this thread who took time from their busy day to try to help you. Except me. I really don't know what the hell I am doing, I just do what Built tells me to. Don't fix what's not broken I always say.
1. WTF happened to Juggs?
2. After a 5 year layoff, jumping rope, walking, being tickled, even just vigorous anf furious masturbation would probably net you some gains. So your generic workout will probably get you some results, and you will be convinced that it is the greatest workout on the planet. More power to you. Whatever motivates you to get off the dissproportionately large ass and workout is a good thing.
3. No isolation based, generic workout created for assisted bodybuilders is going to compete with a tailored workout matched to your needs. Go to Builts pics. Look at them. Then look at them again. Then read her posts. Read them again. Learn. Come back and apologize, then faithfully follow her advice.
You. Will. See. Results.
Quickly, efficiently and with less effort than by throwing yourself mindlessly into a program built for the masses.
4. You asked for advice. You got advice. You discarded advice. Why are you here again? You specifically asked for opinions on your workout. If you were just going to say "I dont care if you think its bad, I thiink its awesome!" then why the hell did you ask?
5. I have gone from a barely human 265lb chub-monster, to a 209lb, muscular beast (rawr) in 7 months, UNASSISTED, by listening to Built. It's not too late to pull your head out of your ass, take a deep breath, and listen to those with more knowledge, which basically encompasses every person in this thread who took time from their busy day to try to help you. Except me. I really don't know what the hell I am doing, I just do what Built tells me to. Don't fix what's not broken I always say.
He maxed out his infractions. I miss him too.
And doing the work. I just open doors. You had to walk through 'em.
That's what they can put on my epitaph: that woman, damn but could she open a door!
Glad to have contributed to your ongoing success, bud.
jmorrison
Registered
Man, anyway to get Juggs back? He was harsh, but he gave great advice and didn't pull punches. One of my favs here.
Now just go back to the diet page and help me with this PSMF and I will start a church in your name. I started it today, and I am ready to eat a small child. Maybe I am doing it wrong lol.
Now just go back to the diet page and help me with this PSMF and I will start a church in your name. I started it today, and I am ready to eat a small child. Maybe I am doing it wrong lol.
What are you currently eating (macros only), and what is your current weight and approximate LBM?
Re jugg - dunno. I can ask though. Seems more than a few people miss him.
Re jugg - dunno. I can ask though. Seems more than a few people miss him.
jmorrison
Registered
I will get back to you tomorrow on the definite macros after I have completed a day, but I am looking for about 1k-1200 cals per day, 200g protein, and negligible carbs/fats.
I am 209, and 13-16% neigborhood.
I am 209, and 13-16% neigborhood.
Let's put you at 180 lbs LBM. This puts you at 14% and makes you a category I dieter.
Your protein can go as high as 360g per day if you wish; go for 11-12 days, then take a two-day refeed followed by a diet break at maintenance for at least a few weeks.
The refeed will look something like this:
If you go low on the carbs:
Day 1
Grams of Protein: 180
Grams of carb: 720
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 4,135
Day 2
Grams of Protein:180
Grams of carb: 360
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 2,695
If you go high on the carbs:
Day 1
Grams of Protein: 180
Grams of carb: 1,080
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 5,575
Day 2
Grams of Protein: 180
Grams of carb: 540
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 3,415
Two short heavy lifting workouts a week; do a tension workout before the carbup.
Supplements (Note: salt your food normally)
1g potassium,
1g calcium,
500mg magnesium
10g fish oil
"Multi,
also 1g vitamin C"
Need anything else from me?
Your protein can go as high as 360g per day if you wish; go for 11-12 days, then take a two-day refeed followed by a diet break at maintenance for at least a few weeks.
The refeed will look something like this:
If you go low on the carbs:
Day 1
Grams of Protein: 180
Grams of carb: 720
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 4,135
Day 2
Grams of Protein:180
Grams of carb: 360
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 2,695
If you go high on the carbs:
Day 1
Grams of Protein: 180
Grams of carb: 1,080
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 5,575
Day 2
Grams of Protein: 180
Grams of carb: 540
Grams of Fat: 59
Calories: 3,415
Two short heavy lifting workouts a week; do a tension workout before the carbup.
Supplements (Note: salt your food normally)
1g potassium,
1g calcium,
500mg magnesium
10g fish oil
"Multi,
also 1g vitamin C"
Need anything else from me?
jmorrison
Registered
Nope I think you just awesomed all over the place.
Here were my macros and meals for the day. Keep in mind that I work nights, so my meals are backwards, ie: breakfast for dinner etc. Any tweaks would be great:
Breakfast: Small salad with (all raw veggies)broccolli, tabasco peppers, bell pepper slices and 1/2cup diced ham with a whey shake:
280 cals, 8g carbs, 36g protein
Break: 1 cup Cottage Cheese
220 cals, 5g carbs, 30g protein
Lunch: 2 small/med boneless chicken breasts and whey shake
390cals, 3g carbs, 68g protein
Break: 1 cup Cottage Cheese
220 cals, 5g carbs, 30g protein
Afterworkout dinner: Eggbeater omelet with diced ham
115cals, 2g carbs, 25g protein
Totals: 1225cals, 23g carbs, 190g protein
I am doing 30 mins low impact SS cardio (as per Lyle) per day, with 2 of the days actually being HIIT followed by 10-15 mins of SS. I am resistance training 3 days per week, upper push, lower body, upper pull, lower impact for around 30-45 mins.
Supplements currently taking are:
Multivitamin
10 caps fish oil
EC stack
Whey shake
I dont have any access to any other supps out here.
Anything I am messing up here? Any ideas on a little more protein with less cals or carbs? Having trouble getting that protein and keeping the carbs under control. Also, how much fat should I be shooting for? Thanks lady!
Here were my macros and meals for the day. Keep in mind that I work nights, so my meals are backwards, ie: breakfast for dinner etc. Any tweaks would be great:
Breakfast: Small salad with (all raw veggies)broccolli, tabasco peppers, bell pepper slices and 1/2cup diced ham with a whey shake:
280 cals, 8g carbs, 36g protein
Break: 1 cup Cottage Cheese
220 cals, 5g carbs, 30g protein
Lunch: 2 small/med boneless chicken breasts and whey shake
390cals, 3g carbs, 68g protein
Break: 1 cup Cottage Cheese
220 cals, 5g carbs, 30g protein
Afterworkout dinner: Eggbeater omelet with diced ham
115cals, 2g carbs, 25g protein
Totals: 1225cals, 23g carbs, 190g protein
I am doing 30 mins low impact SS cardio (as per Lyle) per day, with 2 of the days actually being HIIT followed by 10-15 mins of SS. I am resistance training 3 days per week, upper push, lower body, upper pull, lower impact for around 30-45 mins.
Supplements currently taking are:
Multivitamin
10 caps fish oil
EC stack
Whey shake
I dont have any access to any other supps out here.
Anything I am messing up here? Any ideas on a little more protein with less cals or carbs? Having trouble getting that protein and keeping the carbs under control. Also, how much fat should I be shooting for? Thanks lady!
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Fats should be minimal, just take your 10g of fish oil and perhaps a tablespoon of olive oil daily.
No HIIT. It's too much. His revised guidelines say as much.
I do a workout every third day, alternating between these:
PSMF workout 1
Push press 3 x 5-8
Chins 3 x 5-8
Squats 3 x 5-8
PSMF workout 2
Bench 3 x 5-8
Deads 3 x 5-8
T-bars 3 x 5-8
No HIIT. It's too much. His revised guidelines say as much.
I do a workout every third day, alternating between these:
PSMF workout 1
Push press 3 x 5-8
Chins 3 x 5-8
Squats 3 x 5-8
PSMF workout 2
Bench 3 x 5-8
Deads 3 x 5-8
T-bars 3 x 5-8
And ironically a lot of them are mods! I like straight shooters, he's definitely that.
All I have to say is:
If you say don't want to squat because you're afraid of having a big butt and you say that you're a male, then one of the things you said was a lie.
Get in the gym and squat.
If you say don't want to squat because you're afraid of having a big butt and you say that you're a male, then one of the things you said was a lie.
Get in the gym and squat.
The difference is in that a low carb diet will have a different effect on satiety that a high carb diet would (assuming equal calories).
Many people also have issues with insulin sensitivity/resistance (Save me here Built, can't remember which one it is!
) which makes keto dieting much easier than "normal" dieting - I happen to fall into that category.