Just a little food for thought. I'm sure this makes no sense to a certain few here (you know who you are)
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National debt.
- Thread starter Swfl
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Just a little food for thought. I'm sure this makes no sense to a certain few here (you know who you are)
a government isn't a household, not even close to apples to apples.
decreasing government spending while the private sector is in the process of de-leveraging is the best way to tank the economy, consumption is already down even with record low interest rates out of the Fed. wages are flat for the majority so debt based consumption is what keeps the economy alive as the majority of the national incomes goes to those with the propensity to save. so decreasing gov spending decreases consumption and this would put more people to work how? by increasing unemployment numbers? pushing wages down even lower?
you decrease spending in the good times not in the worst of times.
the printed money never makes it to circulation, it's all siting in the coffers of US banks that aren't lending even with record low interest rates out of the FED. it will take 6-10 years for the de-leveraging process in US private sector to complete until the majority of household can freely borrower money from banks to fuel excess consumption.
it's one of the effects of "inequality doesn't matter" in a consumption based economy when most of the nations income goes to those that save, because they have an extreme excess of income. while those at the bottom spend 100% of their income on living, borrowing makes up for loss of wage growth to fuel excess consumption.
the tax burden has been shifted from the top to the bottom and the income, income gains and wealth is now concentrated at the top.
economic death spiral
Christsean
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I often wonder what is actually happening that those in charge of the budget, that see this as plainly as us, are unable to make decisions to correct it. It's not like they are dummies.
I guess, like the example, I know my credit card is maxing out, but I have to charge my child clothes on it so they can go to school. I still have to make repairs to my roof that is leading even though I don't have the money to fix it. Where can I cut back? My cell phone service? My cable television? Food?
My point is not to say that they are doing the best they can. I just can't imagine what they must be dealing with to be a leading analyst and not only not be able to fix a bad situation, but make decisions that seem to make it worse.
I guess, like the example, I know my credit card is maxing out, but I have to charge my child clothes on it so they can go to school. I still have to make repairs to my roof that is leading even though I don't have the money to fix it. Where can I cut back? My cell phone service? My cable television? Food?
My point is not to say that they are doing the best they can. I just can't imagine what they must be dealing with to be a leading analyst and not only not be able to fix a bad situation, but make decisions that seem to make it worse.
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Nope. The shut down of the government is the result of politicians throwing temper tantrums.
The Debt Limit Explained - YouTube
people that have been listening to far too much "political economics" on tv have been lead to believe that reducing government spending is somehow a key to economic growth, this has been de-bunked by world ranked economists and empirical data.
the US economy is extremely fragile and isn't even close to being repaired after the 2008 economic downturn, that will take decades. the government accounts for 25% of consumption in the US, forget about the trivial fact that the governments money comes from tax revenues. one sectors spending is another sectors income, and with the private sector paying down debt right now decreased spending by the government only makes the economy worse.
you have to examine the factors that have caused the recent trend of jobless recession recoveries since 2001, that easily explains why cutting the deficit which results in less government spending doesn't equate to increased aggregate demand for goods and services which would increase the need for more workers.
the Fed is lending at record low rates but still borrowing hasn't picked up. so you ask well why do people have to borrow to increase consumption? extreme inequality of wealth and income
Christsean
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That makes sense. From an economic standpoint what should they do to fix this mess? Or what if anything could reverse our current downward spiral? Jobs?
Man, the shit's out of whack because these guys purposefully want things this way!
Not being a homer, but the last D president we had balanced the budget..
Who got us into this mess, the party that had the intent to sabotage this president from day 1, and they even said so!
But I do wish I could see numbers like that every time I get an ATM receipt.
Not being a homer, but the last D president we had balanced the budget..
Who got us into this mess, the party that had the intent to sabotage this president from day 1, and they even said so!
But I do wish I could see numbers like that every time I get an ATM receipt.
Yep...Thats my wife and I...It really sucks....Did I say it really sucks?....BTW I am very upset right now thks Swfl....J/K.....Just a little food for thought. I'm sure this makes no sense to a certain few here (you know who you are)
Christsean
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Christsean
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I was trying to quote you sneedham
there is no good news when it comes to the US economy. the current model in use here in the states is completely unsustainable. as more recessions inevitable come in the future things will only continually get worse and worse. after each recession more wealth is permanently transferred up the ladder, further increasing the concentration of income and wealth making the economy even that more sluggish.
this is what I tell people. if you have kids, don't have any more and if you don't, keep it that way.
there isn't much of a future for the masses here in the US. in 50 years it will be like Mexico, a failed currency with hyperinflation and a low wage service sector that can't support the amount of people that desire to be employed. and where do Americans go stuck in between two oceans on the left and right, can't go south and can't go north into Canada as they have their own problems with a population that's equal to 12-13% o that in the US.
Am I the only one that thinks that this budget will never be balanced again?
there's only been one balanced budget in the past 50 years and that was during the Clinton admin and that was only because of positive economic growth that was seen during the internet boom years, some of which was based on actual real income growth and not debt based finance.
a balanced budget solves no problems, it doesn't create more jobs and has no effect on wages.
and I've spent more time studying economics and history then you and everyone you know combined.
any other tall tales you want to tell without any knowledge of me, or the people I know? Don't be a bigger internet fool than you already are son. Do you really think people want to listen to an internet braggart with nothing to back up his ridiculous claims? anyways, keep cutting and pasting from the Obama love fest. Your squirrel army doesn't even follow you
Chicken and the egg scenario. regardless of which comes first both are signs of economic strength. something we should be wanting here in the United states. unchecked spending has never been a good thing in the history of the world. Go ahead and show me where in the history unchecked government spending has been beneficial. since you have such an extensive knowledge of history and economics it should be easy
spending isn't unchecked, tax revenues where decreased to historic lows with the Bush tax cuts, then the economic downturn hit plunging revenues even further.
Receipts
Federal Government Current Receipts (FGRECPT) - FRED - St. Louis Fed
Revenue
Federal Government: Current Expenditures (FGEXPND) - FRED - St. Louis Fed
and what happens when you overlay the two charts see the attachment. this is what dozens of economic reports have already told us, receipts were reduced while spending continued at current trends, then the economic downturn occurred causing massive deficits.
but keep listening to tv economics vs actually trying to actually understand this stuff yourself.
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Bowden
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I always ask these questions of people that are in favor of cutbacks.
Where would you cutback?
Would you be negative impacted by the cutbacks you want?
This is such a complicated discussion not even the best economists can figure it out. Ok cut backs, cut back on defense and they can just move aeound some money and they are ok, cut back headstart they have no money to move around therefore they cannot run? Is it right to put children out on the streets when some of them do really need the help? Just my 2 cents on this HUGE problem.. I do not even pretend to understand economics otherwise I would probably a lot better off.. But what I do know is that I work hard and it seems that I make less and go further into debt each year. Well the last 4 years for sure... Before that I made more money than I do now, had money in my savings account (enough to live off for about 6 mo's), now pay check to pay check... I am still optimistic but it is hard... Things need to change.....
I don't watch TV dumbass. pay attention. How are you not able to understand that the American people don't want spending we can't afford? By your charts you just posted it shows uncontrolled spending hurts the economy. You are the only person I've met on here who argues with universal truths. I say I want the government to stop spending money it doesn't have. Then you post a chart and say "no, you don't understand. it hurts the economy when the government spends money it doesn't have" WTF?
I want the government to provide good roads to provide for facilitating of commerce, and a strong military to always be able to defend our boarders and interests. Give us clean water, and proper sewage/waste management. Let the private sector take care of the rest. It will do better at it anyways.
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