Need Advice

[Scythe]

Hi, new here to the forums

Alright, about 5 months ago I started on a diet and excercise streak that went around 3 months. Originally I was about 165 and cut down to about 134 (I'm a 5'7" male), and am now staying stagnant at about 155

The thing is I lost the size-mass and numbers on the scale, but my overall 'shape' stayed the same. Still have fat on my stomach, under the arms/sides of the chest and the like. The diet I was on was about 1600 calories a day, excercise was mostly cardio. I am getting the impression that I lost more muscle mass then actual fat due to neglicance on the carb/protein ratio and no real weight lifting (like I said was mostly cardio)

So I am wondering what I should go about doing now to get into a good body shape? Some people are telling me to eat more and do weights to bulk up muscle wise, others are telling me to eat less and continue on a fat-loss plan to lower my body fat % (which I think is at 19%). I'm no nutrition/excercise expert so I'm asking on a few forums, anyways what do you guys think my plan should be? I'm 21 and a guy. I actually have a 31 waist but I still have that 'gut'. Please let me know if you need any more info or if I was too vague in explaining something

Thanks!

 

[Cheese]

I'm NO expert by any means but I would certainly hit the weights. Muscle burns fat and theres no debating that. I would keep the calories around 1600 - 1700 30% Protein 30% Fat and 40% Carbs. I have done this and made substantial gains but I too have reached a small plateau. Maybe someone with more experience could provide you with more information. A couple guys here directed me to the stickies at the top of the forums. These have a ton good info in them. You might want to check them out.

 

[BabsieGirl]

I know of a book you can read. By becoming a paying member here at IM, you could download it. The name is: Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle. This is where you should start. Everything is laid out in black and white. You cannot go wrong in purchasing this book. Believe me hon. There's a lot of truth, no hype! It's real!!!

Stick with your weights. You can build muscle while dieting. Back off the cardio a bit. Bump your calories to more like, 1800 to 2000. Keep it clean. This is your goal. Only YOU....Y.O.U. can make it reality!

Good luck.

 

[Scythe]

Ok I will try out the upped calories. I have a question though- I usually do cardio before breakfast, as I hear that helps with the fatloss a little better. Does the time of the workout have much affect?

 

[Scythe]

Anyone please?

 

[twizted110]

yea it does. the longer you go the more you burn. but if your trying to add muscle size to your body stop with the cardio all together for a few months. this way your muscles will start to use the fat to feed on instead of your whole body. like Babsiegirl said raise your calories up a bit if your looking for bigger gains jump up the calories to about 2000-2500 a day if possible and on your workout days pack in as much as possible before and after. then with the protine intake go about double or better everyday if possible and of course go a little higher on your workouts when your doing arms on that day it helps. Carbs go about 50-70% daily value. 2 items that I highly recommend for this is the MetRx RTD 40 and the ABB Extream XXL you can find them at a GNC near you. be very careful with the Extream XXL when they say its a meal in a bottle they mean it. they tell you on the bottle to drink it all within a 15-20 min period.

hoped this helped.

 

[etoussier]

I don't agree with twized110's recommendation to take carbs 50% to 70%... Depending on the state of your pancreas, this will either put up your blood glucose, or else it will cause your pancreas to secrete a lot of insulin to keep glucose down, in either case it is bad for you... I have no problem with calories, but they should come from protein, not from carbs... 50% to 70% carbs of 2000 cals, that is 1000 to 1400 carb calories, or 250 to 350 grams of SUGAR per day... that is about one glass of SUGAR per day !!! How can it be good for you? Buy yourself a glucose meter and TEST YOURSELF AFTER you eat... Don't believe ANYBODY... don't believe Twizted110, the U.S.D.A. Food Guide Pyramid... don't even believe ME... believe the glucose meter...
- Ellis

 

[Jodi]

I'm off to bed but bump this in the morning an myself, Jen or someone else will be able to help.

 

[Scythe]

Thank you

My main concern was building up fat as well with more calories (again I'm not a nutrition expert) when going for muscle. I think bulking up is the way to go though, what I'm just afraid of is not being able to lose that stomach/chest fat in the process by eating more. Or will the bulking up take care of that, not cardio?

 

[etoussier]

You should ALWAYS eat in such a way that you keep your glucose levels low... or if your glucose levels are low no matter how you eat, you should still eat in such a way that you do not stimulate your pancreas to produce insulin, because if you do, you will eventually burn out your pancreas, ie, you advance on the Road to Diabetes... The way to eat, according to me, is to eat anything that is ANIMAL ORIGIN, ie, fish, chicken, beef, eggs, milk, cheese, non-sweetened yoghurt.... and VEGETABLES.... small portions of FRUITS (because fruits contain about 12.5% carbohydrates, which is too much if you eat large portions of fruits) , very small portions of BEANS or NUTS... AVOID Rice, potatoes, spaghetti, corn, bread, cookies, cakes, tortillas, anything made in a pastry shop... breakfast cereals... sweets, candies, chocolates, bees honey, maple syrup, condensed milk... and of course... avoid SUGAR... Keep your glucose levels between 70 and 105 mg/dl AFTER eating, by hook or by crook... 120 is BAD... 140 is TERRIBLE... 160 is HORRIBLE... 180 is DEATHLY... 200 and above is SUICIDAL... The only way you can know what are your glucose levels is BUY A GLUCOSE METER AND USE IT AFTER EATING... there is no other way...

Ellis



Ellis

 

[Pooloo]

Courtesy bump

 

[atherjen]

Personally I would suggest going on a balanced diet, meaning not extreme low calories or low carb and lifting heavy weights with a couple days of HIIT /week.
you need to concentrate more on lifting heavy weights to build muscle, which in return increases fat loss by increasing your resting metabolism(muscle is more metaboliclly active vs. fat).
dieting and doing as much cardio as you were could very wel have forced your body into a starvation mode, thus HOLDING onto the fat rather than loosing.
try a 40/40/20 split (p/c/f) for a while with healthy choices. lift heavy and do the HIIT cardio on your days off. see how you feel and if that is enough to get body running efficiently again.

 

[etoussier]

Again, I repeat...

40% carbohydrates on a 2000 cal diet is 800 calories, which is 200 grams of SUGAR... (SUGAR is 100% carbohydrate) There are no "healthy choices" there is only what the glucose meter says... Get your protein and vitamins and minerals and fiber from the foods that do not raise your glucose levels high, or else you will suffer in the future... I mean... 30 or 40 years down the road... It is called DIABETES...

DON'T BELIEVE ME... JUST DO THIS: TEST YOUR BLOOD GLUCOSE AFTER YOU EAT... if it is below 105, that is optimal... if it is 120 that is BAD... if it is 140 it is TERRIBLE...if it is 160 it is HORRIBLE... if it is 180 it is DEATHLY... if it is 200 or above, it is SUICIDAL...

ONE BAKED POTATO will put MY blood glucose up to 160... ONE PLATE OF SPAGHETTI will put MY blood glucose to 170...

Now... Do whatever you want to do... But if you raise Blood sugar that high, you will also cause the death of neurons... if you cause the death of neurons you also will cause muscle atrophy in the long run... this is called "sarcopenia" vanishing muscles... if you cause muscle atrophy in the long run YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT YOU SET OUT TO DO... which is why I am advising you to eat high protein and low carbs...

Again, I repeat... DON'T believe ME... Believe the Glucose meter...
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DO WHAT I SAY, AND BUY A GLUCOSE METER !!! (I use and I recommend a Roche AccuCheck Advantage, a.k.a. Accutrend Sensor) THAT WILL END THE DISCUSSION.

It is not my OPINION, or Athergen's opinion, or Dr. Atkins' opinion, or Barry Sears' opinion that you should follow... it is what the glucose meter says. Period.

Does this make sense? Buy a glucose meter and try it...

Atherjen, with all due respect, I used to believe exactly as you do, because this is what we have been taught for years by all the "experts"... Then I bought a glucose meter and everything I had learned before was turned upside down. Now I only believe the glucose meter.

Ellis

 

[atherjen]

Originally posted by etoussier

Atherjen, with all due respect, I used to believe exactly as you do, because this is what we have been taught for years by all the "experts"... Then I bought a glucose meter and everything I had learned before was turned upside down. Now I only believe the glucose meter.

Ellis

yah we can tell!

 

[etoussier]

O.K.... so are you going to buy a glucose meter, or are you going to sulk and be certain I am mistaken? If you do not buy a glucose meter, you can't find out if I am right or if I am mistaken...

And you can't find out if YOU are right or if YOU are mistaken, either... A glucose meter is like a new organ for your body, it is like the sense of smell, or the sense of touch... it will tell you something that nobody ever was able to know until about 30 years ago... Now you can tell where your blood glucose is at, in about 30 seconds, and I have given you a table to interpret it. It is like having an expert in nutrition in a box, contradicting everything that Pritikin and the U.S.D.A. Food Guide Pyramid, or even Barry Sears have said... and it backs up a lot of what Dr. Atkins has said.

(I don't agree with Dr. Atkins on everything... I eat high protein low carbs, but I also cut down on fats where possible... and I "eat growth hormone for breakfast.")

There is a reason why I do this... I am nearly 59 years old, in a 40-something year old man's body. What is the single most important objective I have? To take care of my BRAIN and NERVOUS SYSTEM. That will let me take care of the rest of me, for a longer time.

Ellis

 

[Scythe]

Sorry for my ignorance but what is "HIIT"?

 

[twizted110]

lets get something straight right now. i never said a damn thing about taking in a shit load of suger. if people are smart they will look at that lil bit of info on an item called the "nutrition facts" and go after items with low levels of suger. there are people out there that take in high amounts of carbs. but its all low suger to suger free things.

 

[pu239]

Originally posted by Scythe
Sorry for my ignorance but what is "HIIT"?

High Intensity Interval Training. Do a Google search or a search on this board and I'm sure it will return plenty of results.

 

[etoussier]

Hello Twizted 110, and everybody else...

The labelling of the "nutrition facts" is meant to SELL their products, not to take care of your health... There are MANY PRODUCTS sold for DIABETICS which misinform and twist the facts... They say "Contains NO SUGAR" or "Contains NATURAL FRUCTOSE" and they imply that this is somehow means that their product is good for your health...

NOT NECESSARILY SO...

UNDERSTAND THIS : SUGAR IS 100% carbohydrates, but not all carbohydrates are called SUGAR... BREAD is 50% carbohydrates, but it doesn't necessarily contain any white refined SUGAR... That doesn't matter, enough bread (one bun) will shoot MY BLOOD SUGAR out the roof... to about 150, or 160, depending on the weight and the amount of the bun... or potatoes... or spaghetti... or pizza... or cookies...

It might also contain another type of sweetener, which is also 100% carbohydrate but it isn't made from SUGAR CANE so it isn't called SUGAR...

However, it doesn't matter where the carbohydrate comes from, it will all become "glucose" in your blood... So there are LOTS of CANDIES and COOKIES which will KILL a diabetic eventually, but they are SOLD specifically FOR DIABETICS !!! They are HORRIBLE for your health for YOU TOO, even if you are NOT a diabetic, because they ADVANCE YOU on the ROAD TO DIABETES...

SO... LOOK FOR THE TOTAL CARBS... and just suppose it is intentionally mislabelled and called "carbohydrates" instead of SUGAR, but it IS either a TYPE of SUGAR, or it is refined SUGAR, in any case, they are BAD for your NERVOUS SYSTEM...

My advice to you, in general, is "Protein is King... Carbs are BAD..."

How do I know this? Because it is a KNOWN FACT that VERY HIGH BLOOD GLUCOSE over a period of many years will cause a diabetic to lose the sense of touch, usually on his extremities, like the feet and toes... But that is not the only thing they lose... they actually lose neurons all over the body, including the BRAIN...

Now... if you are not interested in what happens to Diabetics... you should be interested, because once upon a time they were not diabetics, and what happened to them can happen to you. The process to become a diabetic is also happening to EVERYBODY but on a much slower and lower scale... If you go fast enough, YOU WILL GET THERE !

In other words, you don't have to put your blood glucose up so high that you become diabetic, you just have to put it up where DOCTORS will tell you there is no problem because they are only interested in DIABETES, not in curing HEALTHY people... (I am interested in healthy people, I am interested in remaining healthy MYSELF...) and at that level you will ONLY lose A FEW neurons...

That is no problem for a DOCTOR, but it spells a problem for ME, because I would like you to stay in OPTIMUM HEALTH, not NORMAL HEALTH... EVERY TIME you lose a neuron, it is GONE... you NEVER GET THEM BACK... it is CUMULATIVE... forever...

There are FAST TWITCH nerves and there are SLOW TWITCH NERVES... the FAST TWITCH nerves are the reason why a 25 year old BOXER will beat down a 35 year old CHAMPION OF THE WORLD, eventually... Let me point out that even Mickey Mantle had to retire... Even Edwin Moses had to retire... Even Michael Jordan had to retire... there comes a point where they have lost their FAST TWITCH neurons, so they are then SLOWER and NOT AS POWERFUL as before...

THAT is why I am writing to say: Keep Your Glucose Levels under control !!! Not too high... not too low...

And how do you keep your glucose levels under control ?

YOU LEARN TO EAT the foods that do not put your glucose levels UP !!!

You only have ONE chance to do this, and if you are still young enough, you can perhaps keep your FAST TWITCH neurons for many more years if you TAKE CARE OF THEM...

I have a program to fight "sarcopenia" which is the name given to age-related loss of muscles... Surprisingly, sarcopenia does not start with loss of muscles... it starts with loss of NEURONS... that is why the single most important thing you can do to help preserve your MUSCLES is to preserve the NEURONS that control them, because if you lose them, the muscle stays without "electricity" and it atrophys... not much... just a little bit... just enough so that a top athlete like Edwin Moses or Michael Jordan is finally forced to withdraw and retire from the sport...

I am nearly 59 years old, and as I wrote before, in a 40-something year old body... that is already too old to recover my lost neurons, which I lost when I ate high carbs and low fat, upon the recommendation of the atrocious U.S.D.A. Food Guide Pyramid... But it isn't so old that I shouldn't worry about keeping what I have left, for as long as I can...

I discovered this by myself, when I bought a glucose meter out of curiousity...

At first I didn't have a clue how to interpret the results of a glucose meter... What you will find on the internet from DOCTORS is meant for diabetic patients who have a very hard time to control their glucose, so doctors are more lenient with them.

I am not lenient with myself, I want to stay alive and well and healthy for as long as is possible. Here it is, again... MY INTERPRETATION OF BLOOD GLUCOSE, if you want to avoid losing your FAST TWITCH NEURONS is:

70 to 105 after eating is optimal... 120 is BAD... 140 is TERRIBLE... 160 is HORRIBLE... 180 is DEATHLY... 200 and more is SUICIDAL...

So... I tell it to you like it is, you decide for your own body.

Twizted, your signature says "Every time I step into the gym I know I'll walk out a little stronger." This is not going to be true forever... There are very old senior citizen athletes who have stepped into the gym all their life, but there came a day when your signature is not true... now they are less strong, and fatter, too... This is because they lost the neurons which control the muscles, the muscle became atrophied, and FAT replaces the space where the muscle was...

I am giving you a formula so that you will make your signature be true, at least for a lot longer time. I hope this helps you and other athletes to remain faster, and stronger, for longer.

Ellis

 

[Vieope]

etoussier I find that is very good what you are doing, to let us know these facts. The problem is that I can´t judge if you are right or wrong. I have no knowledge in that area. That is why I started a thread about your posts. I couldn´t get a proper answer, I hope that a moderator could explain me better what you are saying.

 

[Jodi]

Originally posted by atherjen
yah we can tell!

Damn, did I just reach the atkins forum

 

[wantskinny]

What types of foods can you eat on a daily basis to keep your glucose low????

 

[twizted110]

yea protin is king cuz i used to take in about 250 a day before i started my new job. and i don't know about anyone else but i hate when people make these long posts that hardly anyone if anyone understands.

 

[etoussier]

Hello Vieope... hello twizted110... hello wantskinny... and hello Jodi...

I don't understand how I can say something so simple and so important, and have so many people object to my saying it... Jodi, this is not the Atkins forum... Vieope, you don't have to know if I am right or if I am wrong... EVEN IF I am mistaken BUT you keep your glucose levels low, every doctor in the world will agree that you are doing something good for your body. So... just keep my advice simple: Keep your glucose levels controlled...

Wantskinny, your question was the best question... eat anything that is PROTEIN... try to avoid anything that is HIGH CARBOHYDRATE... Do you know how to recognize a carbohydrate and a high protein? High protein is anything that comes from an ANIMAL... chicken... fish... meat... eggs... milk...

High carbs is anything that is sweet or looks like pasta or potatoes or starch... o.k.?

Twizted... I'm sorry you couldn't understand... you must have eaten too much carbohydrates already and you already lost the neurons... So don't worry about it.

Ellis

 

[Vieope]

I will buy that glucose meter.
Maybe the levels goes high just for a few minutes ? I think that it is not that bad.

 

[twizted110]

ok ellis i think you need to start eatin more carrots here cuz nowhere in any of my psts did i say i took in high counts of carbs. so stop putting other people down on shit and you best stop puttin words in my mouth before i find where you live and we will go rounds.

 

[etoussier]

Hey, Twizted !

You wouldn't want to beat up an OLD MAN would you?!! I said it before, I am going to be 59 years old !!! You can't fight with a SENIOR CITIZEN... even if you win, (which you will, if it is a wrestling match or a fist fight) you lose...

Ha ! You come to Mexico City anytime you like, and I'll invite you
to eat with me...

I like to joke around, Twizted, it is better than fighting... can't you take a joke? Besides, you see I'm keeping my posts SHORT for you...

Ellis