New Pope from Germany

[Decker]

Lets be realistic though, this people are generally having pre-marital/extra-marital sex, which is leading to the infection with AIDs. Do you really think that they care what the Pope says about condoms?

No I don't.

I also think there are many hypocritical catholics out there that engage in pre-marital and extra-marital sex and even practice contraception (in the confines of marriage, that's prohibited by the church) Sex is supposed to be procreative only--how many Catholics enjoy a good blowjob (non-procreative act)? That's a rhetorical question. But as for HIV, HIV transmission breaks down this way 8-900,000 have it and transmission is: gay men comprise 42%, hetero 33%, and other 25%.

Presumably, those people don't care what the pope thinks but many policy makers in this country do--the same people who decide what's legitimate for sex and health education in this country and who willingly support abstinence only education.

It underscores the point that abstinence only is not a pragmatic/realistic approach where disease prevention is concerned (see my post above). That's not to say, ok to hell with everything, let it all happen, the Church still has its standards, but this particular stance is causing more harm than good.

 

[Vieope]

Anybody that teaches that condoms should be used as a prevention of AIDs is an idiot. Thats not their intended purpose, and it would only give people a false sense of security.

I can´t believe you just said that. Of course condoms are necessary, abstinence is unrealistic and your argument that people who engage in premarital sex don´t care about what the pope thinks is wrong.
It is obviously that you Eggs care about what the pope says so that means.. are you a virgin?

 

[busyLivin]

abstinence is unrealistic in today's view.. it's not & shouldn't be for a church's. That doesn't mean the church has to embrace it.

 

[Vieope]

abstinence is unrealistic in today's view.. it's not & shouldn't be for a church's. That doesn't mean the church has to embrace it.

Sure it needs to embrace it, whether I like it or not, the catholic church has a huge influence in the world. See what is happening with stem cells.
It is better than let a lot of people die due to illogical thinking.

 

[busyLivin]

Calling it illogical is an opinion. Condoms are risky. Abstinence is not. Sounds logical to me

 

[Vieope]

Calling it illogical is an opinion. Condoms are risky. Abstinence is not. Sounds logical to me

Hmm.. not that healthy from other perspective.

Most people that develop some kind of problem to the world that end up becoming loners, assassins, the ones with different sex practices and much more, almost all of them were like that due to abstinence. Lack of intimacy with another human being can do some damage.
Sex is happiness, it relieves stress better than anything. :bounce:

 

[Dale Mabry]

See what is happening with stem cells.
It is better than let a lot of people die due to illogical thinking.

That is going to be a problem very shortly. We are overcrowded as it is and as we cure pretty much everything, it is only gonna get more overcrowded.

 

[Eggs]

I can´t believe you just said that. Of course condoms are necessary, abstinence is unrealistic and your argument that people who engage in premarital sex don´t care about what the pope thinks is wrong.
It is obviously that you Eggs care about what the pope says so that means.. are you a virgin?

I dont personally care about what the Pope thinks or says. I'm not a Christian. And being that I engage in premarital sex, I dont feel the need to follow the Popes views on the matter. Now if I were a Christian who was engaging in sex outside of marriage, I think it would be pretty silly of me to start listening to him when it comes to condoms, but not about the premarital sex. Of course, fucking idiots are free to pick and choose what to follow.

Abstienence is not unrealistic. To say that is fucking retarded. There are virgins to this day, and in fact I know some. Those that choose to disregard what Christians believe in the matter shouldn't then be worried about what Christians think about condoms. Unless, as previously stated, they are fucking idiots.

In which case they need to die anyways. Survival of the fittest and all that.

If you, Vieope, choose to have sex with tons of people against what Catholics believe... thats fine. But dont go on and tell me that you're going to start listening when it comes to not using condoms. You're saying that they should give in to every whim that comes along and at every point they should follow what non believers tell them to do rather than what their beliefs tell them to do. But you are a man without faith Vieope, and in no way are you capable of making a case against the church in that.

No one is forcing you or anybody else to follow the Pope, or any other religion. If they choose to do so, thats their decision, and made on their faith. A faith that you dont have, and are hardly capable of understanding.

I dont have faith, and in that I'm not the one to criticize their policies regarding those matters. I believe in evolution and survival of the fittest... and in that, I have to say, who gives a fuck, nature is just weeding the population out.

 

[Vieope]

I dont personally care about what the Pope thinks or says. I'm not a Christian
I dont have faith...

So why are we arguing? Why are you defending the pope so vehemently? Damn, I thought that you were sooo christian.

 

[Decker]

I don't think Vieope is worried about Papal credo regarding contraception. I think the problem is the policy makers that follow the Pope's prohibition of contraception....that necessarily affects healt and sexual education and enabling programs in this country. Like it or not, most americans are not celibate (by choice anyway) and b/c of policy makers' ideological bent, funding for education about sex and stds and attendant resources severely handicaps those not practicing puritanical abstinence.

 

[busyLivin]

that's just it... you say 'like it or not, we are having sex'.. well that's fine: like it or not, you may contract a disease from that decision. I don't see where the blame is on the Pope.

 

[Vieope]

that's just it... you say 'like it or not, we are having sex'.. well that's fine: like it or not, you may contract a disease from that decision.

That is such a pessimistic view of sex.

You are thinking of replying with "no, it is realistic.". Aren´t you?

 

[Decker]

that's just it... you say 'like it or not, we are having sex'.. well that's fine: like it or not, you may contract a disease from that decision. I don't see where the blame is on the Pope.

The pope is the policy maker supreme for catholics and that spills over into this country's body politik. That political influence necessarily affects average americans that see the pope as just a man in a funny hat. The pope's prejudices--moral and sociological--have an effect.

Just b/c you want to see someone suffer the unmitigated results of a disease from sexual intercourse, i.e., suffering a slow death from hiv/aids simply b/c he or she had a roll in the hay illustrates what's wrong with inflexible religion in the first place. That's fucking insane if you ask me.

 

[busyLivin]

V.. not a pessimistic view of sex.. but I do give it a little reverence...

Decker.. you simply hear what you want to hear. Suggesting I want to see people sick really diminishes the credit I was giving you before. You want to blame the pope, and I ask for a little personal responsibility.. that's all.

I really don't understand why you can't see my point. If you do, why do you keep side-stepping it? The last thing I would want is anyone to be hurt.

 

[Decker]

V.. not a pessimistic view of sex.. but I do give it a little reverence...

Decker.. you simply hear what you want to hear. Suggesting I want to see people sick really diminishes the credit I was giving you before. You want to blame the pope, and I ask for a little personal responsibility.. that's all.

I really don't understand why you can't see my point. If you do, why do you keep side-stepping it? The last thing I would want is anyone to be hurt.

Forgive me for the conclusion I draw, I'm going on 2 hours sleep, but you have to admit that your posting was rather flippant: "like it or not, you may contract a disease from that decision" The likelihood of transmitting stds is greatly reduced via education and resources. If the pope's political outlook affects (i.e. funding) that education and resources b/c it's a sin, then he has a hand in the proliferation of those diseases--ignorance is not bliss, it's just ignorance.

I believe in personal responsibility also. But holding someone to an absolute standard of responsibility over sex and by association, life and death, is not humane, practical or sensible. Catholic Politics affects us all whether we ascribe to the tenets of the religion or not. That's why the Pope is culpable for the views he holds. (the screen is breathing...i'm so tired)

 

[maxpro2]

I don't think Vieope is worried about Papal credo regarding contraception. I think the problem is the policy makers that follow the Pope's prohibition of contraception....that necessarily affects healt and sexual education and enabling programs in this country. Like it or not, most americans are not celibate (by choice anyway) and b/c of policy makers' ideological bent, funding for education about sex and stds and attendant resources severely handicaps those not practicing puritanical abstinence.

Exactly

 

[busyLivin]

we're just going back & forth with the same arguments.. I see what you're saying. We'll agree to disagree

 

[Decker]

we're just going back & forth with the same arguments.. I see what you're saying. We'll agree to disagree

Thanks man. Nothing personal...I just turn into a major league fuckhead when I'm sooooooooooooo tired. Screw work...I'm going home to bed. In the immortal words of John H.

--TAKE CARE

 

[busyLivin]

no hard feelings.. debates are debates

 

[Eggs]

Most Americans today have had sexual education in some form or other havent they? At least it was taught at my schools growing up. Now in College, you get sexual education classes, there are free condoms, etc... and yet many people still get STDs.

Sexual education was a waste for most of the people I know of, and I know alot of guys that refuse to wear condoms because they dont like the way they feel. That is after they have received sexual education, and the benefit of free condoms.

None of those refuse to wear them because the Pope says so. As to the authority of the Pope, lets be realistic, its negligable. I lived in Italy for several years, and even over there everyone that professed to be Catholic was getting laid and using BC or wearing condoms.

As to why I defend the Pope, Vieope... I generally defend people who are pissed on because of their beliefs. Especially when they arent there to defend themselves. Dont tell John H., but I've even defended gay peope who were being bad mouthed before. Mostly in real life though, as on here I usually find myself returning attacks on people.

Mostly I guess I take exception with the way people bad mouth authority, as if they would do a better job if they were in the position. Because they arent... and I'm pretty certain they would do far worse.

It is of course our right to free speech, but when it breaks down from a logical discussion into somebody simply bitching, it tends to lose some of its flavor.

Whether or not I agree with the Popes policies, heritage, or the funny hats he wears, I'm going to defend him because he is in a tough position and he is making the best of it as he knows how.