Newbie - be gentle

[Manaloa]

I'd appreciate any help.
Thanks,

Define your short and long term physique goals:

Short Term: Lose fat and gain muscle
Long Term: Stay healthy
​

Stats:
Female - 5'5" - 230lbs - approximately 50% bodyfat.

Workout Schedule:

4 days (M\T\Th\F) - Weights/cardio (finally got the husband to join the gym with me)
Still haven't worked out a good split for the weights. Still trying to decide with all of the threads I've read. I could use help here.
​

Background:

Met my husband in 2003 and I was approximately 160lbs and a size 10 in juniors. Started adding the happy lbs until I ballooned up to 240 lbs\size 20. Went low carb in 2006 and lost down to 196 then gradually gained it all back still low carbing. Been afraid of adding carbs back in over 30 grams for years. Started working for a guy who owns some Max Muscles. Started re-doing some research on diets and bodybuilding forums. Have gradually started reintroducing carbs back into the diet and lowering the fat. Over the last two weeks have lost 10lbs.
​

Current Macros (approx):
Mon: P - 175, C - 100, F - 50
Tues - 175, C - 100, F - 50
Wed - 175, C - 50, F - 75
Thurs: P - 175, C - 100, F - 50
Fri: P - 175, C - 100, F - 50
Sat: P - 175, C - 200, F - 60
Sun: P - 175, C - 50, F - 75

Protein will vary between 150 to 200 grams depending on how hungry I am. Since I've started working out, I've been a lot hungrier. Fats on M/T/Th/F will usually vary between 45-55 grams, on the other days the range is usually between 60-80. This does not include the fish oil pills that I take. I'm getting better at getting my carbs up to at least 100 on M/T/Th/F. Saturdays are usually when we go out so sometimes that's all over the place. Sundays I try to stay lower carb since I usually just sit around all day. I could use help here too.

Usual foods: chicken breast, white fish, salmon, tuna, lean beef, green veggies, low carb yogurt, cottage cheese, whey protein, oats (old fashioned and steel cut), milk, sweet potato, low carb breads/wraps

Sample day (workout):
1st meal:
1 cup coffee w/1/2 scoop Max Pro and 1 tbsp whole milk
1 deli flat, whole wheat
1 homemade denver omelet - 1 whole egg, 1/4 cup egg whites, 1 oz lean ham, 1 tbsp chopped onion, 1 tbsp chopped green peppers, 2 tbsp shredded cheddar
P: 43, F: 14, C: 39

2nd meal:
1 low carb yogurt
P: 12, F: 2, C: 4

3rd meal:
5 oz tuna, 2 tbsp onions, 4 tbsp light sour cream, 1 stalk celery, seasonings, 2 slices Sara Lee delightful whole wheat bread.
P: 46, F: 11, C: 25

4th meal:
1/2 tall skinny cinnamon dolce latte with 1/2 scoop Max Pro
(I don't know if this is accurate, I threw most of it away)
P: 18, F: 1, C: 7

5th meal:
Homemade protein bar
P: 23, F: 23, C: 18

workout

6th meal:
Pork tenderloin, 10 oz, 1 tbsp lipton seasoning, 150 grams baby carrots, 2 tbsp Famous Dave's Devils Spit BBQ sauce (yes, I know that wasn't the best choice, but damn that roast was dry)
P: 85, F: 23, C: 30

Sample day (non-workout)
1st meal:
2 scoop NNW whey, .5 cup half & half (was trying to finish it out), 1 tsp cocoa powder, 2 cup coffee
P: 48, F: 18, C: 8

2nd meal:
2 oz lean ham, 2.6 oz turkey pastrami, 2 slices pepper jack cheese, 3 tsp brown mustard, 2 slices Sara Lee delightful whole wheat bread.
P: 39, F: 24, C: 21

3rd meal:
3 oz lean ham, 3.5 oz pastrami, , 3 oz smoked turkey, 2 slices provolone cheese, 3 tsp brown mustard, 2 slices Sara Lee delightful whole wheat bread.
P: 72, F: 25, C: 20

Normally I wouldn't have had two sandwiches in one day.

 

[gtbmed]

PSMF IMO.

Going low-carb again will probably help you. Do you find that eating more carbs and fewer fats leaves you hungry? Most women feel more satiated on a diet with more protein and fewer carbs.

 

[Manaloa]

I have been doing low carb when I gained back the weight and continue to maintain. Usually this was what I ate - P: 100, F: 150: C: 20, roughly 1800 calories. Which you would think would still be within range to cause weight loss. There were also days when I would inadvertently IF due to appetite suppression until a late lunch or dinner. Cals would usually be lower on those day around 14-1500, with still no loss. For me it seems to be a great maintenance diet and I enjoy eating this way, but I don't lose.

I tried a few days of PSMF, P: 150, F: 35, C:35 without gym time and this induced weight loss, but was very hard to sustain. I would like to continue working out, but worry about energy, especially with adding the workouts and cardio if I do PSMF.

 

[gtbmed]

I have been doing low carb when I gained back the weight and continue to maintain. Usually this was what I ate - P: 100, F: 150: C: 20, roughly 1800 calories. Which you would think would still be within range to cause weight loss. There were also days when I would inadvertently IF due to appetite suppression until a late lunch or dinner. Cals would usually be lower on those day around 14-1500, with still no loss. For me it seems to be a great maintenance diet and I enjoy eating this way, but I don't lose.

I tried a few days of PSMF, P: 150, F: 35, C:35 without gym time and this induced weight loss, but was very hard to sustain. I would like to continue working out, but worry about energy, especially with adding the workouts and cardio if I do PSMF.

Are you doing refeeds? They're really important for a person who's dieting long-term. There's a stickied thread about them on the forum that I suggest reading.

1800 calories may not be low enough to induce weight loss. Maintenance calories are something you can only find through experiment IMO.

PSMF is a good diet but can be difficult at first. You don't want to be adding too many workouts when you're doing it - maybe 2-3 workouts per week.

 

[Manaloa]

I read about the refeeds, they freak me out coming from low carb. The thing is, I know it works. When I started two weeks ago, I started with a refeed and that's when I started losing the 10lbs over the last two weeks. This week, I've kept my carbs at about 100 per day but I've just been maintaining the new low for the last four days. I was debating on doing another refeed Saturday night for one meal only (wedding anniversary) and see if that will get the losses going again.

The thing is, I'd like to take in enough to continue with the weights and cardio as I'm really enjoying myself and PMSF just makes me not want to do anything.

 

[Built]

Are you doing refeeds? They're really important for a person who's dieting long-term. There's a stickied thread about them on the forum that I suggest reading.

1800 calories may not be low enough to induce weight loss. Maintenance calories are something you can only find through experiment IMO.

PSMF is a good diet but can be difficult at first. You don't want to be adding too many workouts when you're doing it - maybe 2-3 workouts per week.

^^ You really do have to keep workouts at a minimum when you're doing a very low calories, very low carb diet like PSMF.

Hey there Manaloa, I'm a former fatty, too, and a low-carb gal. My current plan has me carb cycling, but my "high" days are still under 150g of carb. Low goes down below 50g. I fight with hunger when my activity level goes up, trust me I understand the struggle to find balance between the two.

I read about the refeeds, they freak me out coming from low carb. The thing is, I know it works. When I started two weeks ago, I started with a refeed and that's when I started losing the 10lbs over the last two weeks. This week, I've kept my carbs at about 100 per day but I've just been maintaining the new low for the last four days. I was debating on doing another refeed Saturday night for one meal only (wedding anniversary) and see if that will get the losses going again.

The thing is, I'd like to take in enough to continue with the weights and cardio as I'm really enjoying myself and PMSF just makes me not want to do anything.

PSMF really does drop you down to low on the activity front. Listen, you're doing well right now, so leave it alone and read LOADS so you're ready for the next stall, which WILL happen but it will also pass.

Go ahead and have your anniversary meal. At this point, refeeds probably won't do much for your metabolism, but a weekly free meal won't truly set you back, and is good for your soul.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Manaloa]

Thanks Built. where do you keep you fat grams at?

 

[Built]

You're most welcome. Ask me anything.

Fat grams for me I like high, but I do pull them back a bit when I have to.

This was yesterday for me (higher carb; training day):

Grams Calories %-Cals
Calories 1,967
Fat 97.6 864 45 %
Saturated 28.8 257 13 %
Polyunsaturated 12.9 114 6 %
Monounsaturated 45.7 402 21 %
Carbohydrate 107.5 400 21 %
Dietary Fiber 23.1
Protein 170.2 667 35 %
Alcohol 0.0 0 0 %

And the day before (lower carb; non-training day)
Grams Calories %-Cals
Calories 1,677
Fat 83.1 732 45 %
Saturated 24.1 214 13 %
Polyunsaturated 21.3 183 11 %
Monounsaturated 25.0 222 14 %
Carbohydrate 53.6 188 12 %
Dietary Fiber 18.0
Protein 180.6 713 44 %
Alcohol 0.0 0 0 %

 

[Built]

...And my average so far this week:
Grams Calories %-Cals
Calories 1,907
Fat 88.7 784 42 %
Saturated 25.6 229 12 %
Polyunsaturated 15.5 135 7 %
Monounsaturated 36.7 324 17 %
Carbohydrate 102.3 372 20 %
Dietary Fiber 24.7
Protein 181.2 716 38 %
Alcohol 0.0 0 0

For reference, I'm 5'7" tall and weigh 145 lbs, of which approximately 120 lbs are lean mass and 25 lbs are bodyfat.
I'm 47 years old and when I was 38, I weighed 170 lbs and carried about 105 lbs lean mass and about 65 lbs of bodyfat.

 

[Manaloa]

You're most welcome. Ask me anything.

Fat grams for me I like high, but I do pull them back a bit when I have to.

This was yesterday for me (higher carb; training day):

Grams Calories %-Cals
Calories 1,967
Fat 97.6 864 45 %
Saturated 28.8 257 13 %
Polyunsaturated 12.9 114 6 %
Monounsaturated 45.7 402 21 %
Carbohydrate 107.5 400 21 %
Dietary Fiber 23.1
Protein 170.2 667 35 %
Alcohol 0.0 0 0 %

And the day before (lower carb; non-training day)
Grams Calories %-Cals
Calories 1,677
Fat 83.1 732 45 %
Saturated 24.1 214 13 %
Polyunsaturated 21.3 183 11 %
Monounsaturated 25.0 222 14 %
Carbohydrate 53.6 188 12 %
Dietary Fiber 18.0
Protein 180.6 713 44 %
Alcohol 0.0 0 0 %

Now, that I would feel comfortable doing. I wasn't sure if I should keep my fats up there with the 100g of carbs, so they've been lower, but I get hungry more often...but anything over that in fat and I don't lose either. OK, I'm going to stick to those ranges as a guideline to start.

Built, on another site, I posted the same and I'm getting conflicting information on training and food and would really like your opinion. The most vocal opinion I've gotten is from a "personal trainer" who says basically to stop lifting heavy and not do a 4 day split. He suggested a 3 day light weight full body and 45-60 minutes of steady cardio 6-7 days per week. And also for me to cut my calories to 1450 with the following ratio: C:55%, P:30%, F:15% - with those calories it would give me giving me is P: 108, F: 25, C: 199.

 

[Built]

Now, that I would feel comfortable doing. I wasn't sure if I should keep my fats up there with the 100g of carbs, so they've been lower, but I get hungry more often...but anything over that in fat and I don't lose either. OK, I'm going to stick to those ranges as a guideline to start.

Built, on another site, I posted the same and I'm getting conflicting information on training and food and would really like your opinion. The most vocal opinion I've gotten is from a "personal trainer" who says basically to stop lifting heavy and not do a 4 day split. He suggested a 3 day light weight full body and 45-60 minutes of steady cardio 6-7 days per week. And also for me to cut my calories to 1450 with the following ratio: C:55%, P:30%, F:15% - with those calories it would give me giving me is P: 108, F: 25, C: 199.

Manaloa, it's interesting, isn't it, when a man you've never met tells you to eat a diet that you know in your heart will make you so hungry you could cry?

I could not manage on that mix. I need my fats high and also my protein. The carbs you're eating on 1450 calories a day are higher than I eat while BULKING. Add in the exercise, and I'd be one freaked out mess within a day. There is no way I could do this. Maybe he can, but not me.

Ask him why he recommends this, and while you're at it, ask him if he's ever been fat.

Regarding your activity level, well, perhaps tell me what it is now? What feels best, to you right now?

 

[gtbmed]

45-60 minutes of SS cardio 6-7 days/week while in a deficit with low fats? I think I'd want to cry as well.

People seriously don't think very much when they recommend stuff like that. I hate hearing people recommend jogging to those who are overweight. Do they even think about the impact and, consequently, the joint problems that could cause? Hell I used to do my fair share of running at a lean ~175 lbs. and I ended up with a bunch of joint pains.

 

[gtbmed]

Also, regarding activity level:

I am very active throughout the day (one of the consequences of being a student) and I love to train. I'm to the point where I need to stop myself from going to the gym on off days just to do GPP workouts.

It's psychologically empowering to workout. I struggled when I tried PSMF because I felt lethargic and I hated the fact that I had to reduce my activity level so much. In the end I think you have to find the balance that works for you. But you have to realize that dieting is a much better long-term weight management strategy than exercise.

In short, exercise because you like it, but diet to lose the weight. As long as your exercise isn't getting in the way of your weight loss, you're fine.

 

[Phineas]

Also, regarding activity level:

I am very active throughout the day (one of the consequences of being a student) and I love to train. I'm to the point where I need to stop myself from going to the gym on off days just to do GPP workouts.

It's psychologically empowering to workout. I struggled when I tried PSMF because I felt lethargic and I hated the fact that I had to reduce my activity level so much. In the end I think you have to find the balance that works for you. But you have to realize that dieting is a much better long-term weight management strategy than exercise.

In short, exercise because you like it, but diet to lose the weight. As long as your exercise isn't getting in the way of your weight loss, you're fine.

Well said.

 

[Manaloa]

Manaloa, it's interesting, isn't it, when a man you've never met tells you to eat a diet that you know in your heart will make you so hungry you could cry?

I could not manage on that mix. I need my fats high and also my protein. The carbs you're eating on 1450 calories a day are higher than I eat while BULKING. Add in the exercise, and I'd be one freaked out mess within a day. There is no way I could do this. Maybe he can, but not me.

Ask him why he recommends this, and while you're at it, ask him if he's ever been fat.

Regarding your activity level, well, perhaps tell me what it is now? What feels best, to you right now?

Another poster was arguing with him about it and his rationale was " I am a professional trainer and nutritional consultant who helps women ranging from obese down to fitness models, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about!" He keeps insisting that I'm going to hurt myself by lifting heavy. But heavy for me is not so much. I used to be able to lift a lot more.

As for exercise, when I lift, this is what I do. Weights will vary per exercise, but 1st set, lift so that by the last rep I'm struggling to finish. 2nd set, keep the same weight, and if I don't feel that I will be able to finish the set, will then drop the weight part way through the set, so that I will still be able to finish the set but still be struggling at the last rep. I usually only do two sets as I can feel the burn in my muscles at that point. I do not allow any more time between different exercises than it takes to move into position. I will usually do two body parts per day and about 4-5 different exercises per body part. I spend approximately 30-40 minutes lifting. And I'm usually sweating and out of breath when I'm done. I have already noticed that my shoulders are more defined and firmer doing this. And I can see my triceps again. And that's after 2 weeks. I don't think I'm working by back as well though. I'm not feeling anything like I do with my shoulders and arms.

I was initially going to do 2 days upper body and two days lower, but was too tired this week for another lower body day. Now I'm trying to figure out how to split up my days.

After that I do 20 minutes of "cardio" I will usually warm up on the treadmill for 2 minutes walking at 2.5 pace and then jog at 5.5 for one minute and then walk until my heart rate goes back down to 120 bpm and then jog for another minute, until my 30 minutes is up. Similar in idea to HITT, but obviously I can't sustain a normal routine of it.

 

[Built]

Don't worry about the HIIT for now, the big deal at this point is diet. Just lift and diet, go for a walk every day and let the deficit do the work for you.

I'd like to know some scientific reasoning. Perhaps ask him why his approach would work better than, say, higher fat, moderate protein, lower carbs, a three-day-a-week lifting and up to an hour a day walking.

Ask him for before and after pix, and ask him how long his clients maintain the weight loss.

 

[gtbmed]

Any approach with a caloric deficit is going to work. The question is how comfortable are you going to be while it's working and how sustainable is your progress going to be.