no death linked to steroids..really?

[bjg]

interesting chromosomal damage mmm


SIDE EFFECTS OF TREN STEROIDS
Mar 8, 2011 | By Tomas Linnaeus

The slang phrase "tren steroids" refers to use of trenbolone, a performance-enhancing drug invented in 1963 says "Advances in Environmental Biology.” This veterinary medication increases muscle size and caloric appetite in animals. Readily available, athletes such as body builders and weight lifters use tren steroids to enhance their physique and improve their strength. These drugs alter the body's natural testosterone system which is responsible for development and growth. Trenbolone is considerably more potent than testosterone, but it can cause both short-term reactions and long-term effects.

GENETIC DAMAGE
A 2007 report described in the journal "Advances in Environmental Biology" tested the effects of tren steroids on human lymphocytes, or white blood cells. These cells, maintained in a petri dish culture, are rarely abnormal. Yet, the addition of trenbolone produced a dramatic increase in the number of abnormal cells. This increase represents a change in chromosomal structure. Most cells experiencing such a change die off. Yet surviving cells can cause genetic changes in the host and the offspring.

PHYSICAL CHANGE
A 2007 study by H. K. Hotchkiss presented in the periodical "Toxicology Letters" looked at the impact of trenbolone in female rats. Fetuses exposed to tren steroids prior to birth displayed delayed puberty and deformed genitals. Trenbolone causes similar physical changes in male rats. A 2002 report in "Toxicological Sciences" showed that tren steroids shrank the adrenal gland. This study also indicated that trenbolone was far more effective when administered through the skin than by the mouth. This finding may explain why body builders typically use tren steroids in home-made transdermal preparations, says “Toxicology Letters.

CHEMICAL CHANGE
A 1999 experiment offered in the "Journal of Animal Science" assessed the lipid content of steer meat. Lipids include natural chemicals like fats, vitamins and sterols. Cholesterol is a lipid of particular interest due to its potential role in heart disease. Trenbolone pellets are often implanted into steers to increase their growth. Such implants, unfortunately, increase the cholesterol content present in steak. People may also absorb steroid additives directly from steak as well, says the "Journal of Animal Science.

BEHAVIORAL CHANGE
Two reports described by the "International Programme on Chemical Safety" observed changes in behavior induced by tren steroids. Male and female rats were given active metabolites of trenbolone: 17-alpha-trenbolone or 17-beta-trenbolone. Males, but not females, exhibited drug-induced behavioral changes. These rats frequently salivated and consumed more food than controls.

IMMUNE SUPPRESSION
A 2007 investigation in the "Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health" evaluated the effects of tren steroids on the immune system. Male rats received either trenbolone, testosterone, or saline. A delayed-type hypersensitivity test measured immune function. For this test, a potential allergen is placed under the skin, and the appearance of a rash within 72 hours indicates a positive reaction. A positive reaction indicates normal immunity. Rats given tren steroids showed less rash relative to those given either testosterone or saline.

REFERENCES
"Advances in Environmental Biology": Chromosomal Damage Induced by Androgenic Anabolic Steroids
"Toxicology Letters"; In Utero Exposure to the Environmental Androgen Trenbolone Masculinizes Female Sprague-Dawley Rats; H. K. Hotchkiss et al.; Nov. 1, 2007
"Journal of Animal Science"; Effect of Anabolic Implants on Beef Intramuscular Lipid Content; S. K. Duckett et al.; May 1999
"International Programme on Chemical Safety": Detailed Studies on Trenbolone Acetate
"Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A"; An Environmental Androgen, 17beta-trenbolone, Affects Delayed-Type Hypersensitivity and Reproductive Tissues in Male Mice; H. K. Hotchkiss et al.; Jan. 15, 2007

Read more: Side Effects Of Tren Steroids | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[bjg]

Short term effects ...again read carefully thise is a medical journal not some magazine selling steroids.

IRREVERSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS OF STEROIDS
Jul 5, 2010 | By Tomas Linnaeus

Performance-enhancing drugs such as anabolic steroids increase muscle strength and body size. These drugs act on the body's testosterone system. This system plays an important role in reproduction and development. A 2006 poll presented in the medical journal "Drug and Alcohol Dependence" looked at steroid use in recreational athletes. About 14 percent of these athletes had used steroids. Such users risk short-term and long-lasting side effects. Many adverse reactions remain irreversible and cause permanent damage.

POSSIBLE MORTALITY
Establishing a causal relationship between steroid use and mortality risk remains difficult. Yet several case studies have shown that steroids played a role in the death of some users. For example, a 2009 report in "Forensic Science International" describes a case of fatal lung damage in a 29-year-old man abusing testosterone and nandrolone. On autopsy, this man had extensive blood-filled cysts present throughout his lungs. These steroid-induced lesions likely caused his death. And a 2006 review in the "Journal of Endocrinology" shows the addictive, and sometimes fatal, potential of steroids. Hamsters given ad lib access to anabolic drugs will occasionally self-administer them until they overdose.
Ask a Doctor Online Now A Doctor Will Answer You Now! Questions Answered Every 9 Seconds. Health.JustAnswer.com

VENTRICULAR ENLARGEMENT
Steroid users often experience changes in heart structure and vascular function. For example, testosterone intake typically increases blood pressure. Such increases are reversible, however, as they disappear upon steroid withdrawal. Yet the underlying mechanism often remains. A 2004 study in the journal "Heart" looked at cardiac parameters in strength athletes using, and not using, anabolic steroids. Results indicated left ventricular enlargement in users relative to nonusers. This change in heart structure remained one year after steroid use. The latter finding suggests that performance-enhancing drugs have permanent effects.

ATHEROGENIC LIPID PROFILE
With atherogenesis, plaques develop in the arteries that cause them to "harden" and narrow. Such plaques result from a high-cholesterol diet. This type of diet produces an atherogenic lipid profile characterized by a decrease in "good" cholesterol and plaque-fighting proteins as well as an increase in "bad" cholesterol and plaque-promoting proteins. A 2004 report in the "British Journal of Sports Medicine" shows that anabolic steroid intake for eight weeks negatively affects blood lipids, creating an atherogenic lipid profile. These steroid-induced changes did not normalize after six weeks of withdrawal, indicating irreversible damage.

CHROMOSOME DAMAGE
Some evidence suggests that anabolic steroids cause DNA damage and even cell death. A 2010 analysis in the journal "Steroids" evaluated oral mucosa cells using a micronucleus test. This test identifies carcinogens that cause genetic damage. Cells were obtained from the mouths of bodybuilders using anabolic steroids for two months. Findings included pyknosis, an irreversible condensation of chromatin in the nucleus of a dying cell. Such a result indicates chromosomal damage, a permanent change in DNA caused by short-term steroid intake. These genetic changes can affect both the host and the offspring.

REFERENCES
"Drug and Alcohol Dependence"; Anabolic Ergogenic Substance Users in Fitness-Sports: A Distinct Group Supported by the Health Care System; H. Striegel et al.; January 4, 2006
"Forensic Science International"; First Case of Fatal Pulmonary Peliosis Without Any Other Organ Involvement in a Young Testosterone Abusing Male; T. Vougiouklakis et al.; April 15, 2009
"Heart"; Are the Cardiac Effects of Anabolic Steroid Abuse in Strength Athletes Reversible?
"British Journal of Sports Medicine"; Effects of Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids on Apolipoproteins and Lipoprotein (a); F. Hartgens et al.; June 2004
"Steroids"; Chromosome Damage and Cytotoxicity in Oral Mucosa Cells after 2 Months of Exposure to Anabolic Steroids (Decadurabolin and Winstrol) in Weight Lifting; R.A. Martins et al.; June 1, 2010
Article reviewed by Christine Brncik Last updated on: Jul 5, 2010

Read more: Irreversible Side Effects Of Steroids | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[bjg]

Short term effects ...again read carefully thise is a medical journal not some magazine selling steroids.

IRREVERSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS OF STEROIDS
Jul 5, 2010 | By Tomas Linnaeus

Performance-enhancing drugs such as anabolic steroids increase muscle strength and body size. These drugs act on the body's testosterone system. This system plays an important role in reproduction and development. A 2006 poll presented in the medical journal "Drug and Alcohol Dependence" looked at steroid use in recreational athletes. About 14 percent of these athletes had used steroids. Such users risk short-term and long-lasting side effects. Many adverse reactions remain irreversible and cause permanent damage.

POSSIBLE MORTALITY
Establishing a causal relationship between steroid use and mortality risk remains difficult. Yet several case studies have shown that steroids played a role in the death of some users. For example, a 2009 report in "Forensic Science International" describes a case of fatal lung damage in a 29-year-old man abusing testosterone and nandrolone. On autopsy, this man had extensive blood-filled cysts present throughout his lungs. These steroid-induced lesions likely caused his death. And a 2006 review in the "Journal of Endocrinology" shows the addictive, and sometimes fatal, potential of steroids. Hamsters given ad lib access to anabolic drugs will occasionally self-administer them until they overdose.
Ask a Doctor Online Now A Doctor Will Answer You Now! Questions Answered Every 9 Seconds. Health.JustAnswer.com

VENTRICULAR ENLARGEMENT
Steroid users often experience changes in heart structure and vascular function. For example, testosterone intake typically increases blood pressure. Such increases are reversible, however, as they disappear upon steroid withdrawal. Yet the underlying mechanism often remains. A 2004 study in the journal "Heart" looked at cardiac parameters in strength athletes using, and not using, anabolic steroids. Results indicated left ventricular enlargement in users relative to nonusers. This change in heart structure remained one year after steroid use. The latter finding suggests that performance-enhancing drugs have permanent effects.

ATHEROGENIC LIPID PROFILE
With atherogenesis, plaques develop in the arteries that cause them to "harden" and narrow. Such plaques result from a high-cholesterol diet. This type of diet produces an atherogenic lipid profile characterized by a decrease in "good" cholesterol and plaque-fighting proteins as well as an increase in "bad" cholesterol and plaque-promoting proteins. A 2004 report in the "British Journal of Sports Medicine" shows that anabolic steroid intake for eight weeks negatively affects blood lipids, creating an atherogenic lipid profile. These steroid-induced changes did not normalize after six weeks of withdrawal, indicating irreversible damage.

CHROMOSOME DAMAGE
Some evidence suggests that anabolic steroids cause DNA damage and even cell death. A 2010 analysis in the journal "Steroids" evaluated oral mucosa cells using a micronucleus test. This test identifies carcinogens that cause genetic damage. Cells were obtained from the mouths of bodybuilders using anabolic steroids for two months. Findings included pyknosis, an irreversible condensation of chromatin in the nucleus of a dying cell. Such a result indicates chromosomal damage, a permanent change in DNA caused by short-term steroid intake. These genetic changes can affect both the host and the offspring.


REFERENCES
"Drug and Alcohol Dependence"; Anabolic Ergogenic Substance Users in Fitness-Sports: A Distinct Group Supported by the Health Care System; H. Striegel et al.; January 4, 2006
"Forensic Science International"; First Case of Fatal Pulmonary Peliosis Without Any Other Organ Involvement in a Young Testosterone Abusing Male; T. Vougiouklakis et al.; April 15, 2009
"Heart"; Are the Cardiac Effects of Anabolic Steroid Abuse in Strength Athletes Reversible?
"British Journal of Sports Medicine"; Effects of Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids on Apolipoproteins and Lipoprotein (a); F. Hartgens et al.; June 2004
"Steroids"; Chromosome Damage and Cytotoxicity in Oral Mucosa Cells after 2 Months of Exposure to Anabolic Steroids (Decadurabolin and Winstrol) in Weight Lifting; R.A. Martins et al.; June 1, 2010
Article reviewed by Christine Brncik Last updated on: Jul 5, 2010

Read more: Irreversible Side Effects Of Steroids | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[bjg]

not going to put the whole article only the abstract


Chromosomal Damage Induced by Androgenic Anabolic Steroids, Stanozolol and
Trenbolone, in Human Lymphocytes
Ta n v eer Beg , Ya sir Ha sa n S id d iq u e a n d Mo h amma d Af za l
Human Genetics and Toxicology Laboratory, Department of Zoology, Aligarh ,
2 0 2 0 0 2 , In d ia .
Ta nve er Be g, Ya sir Ha sa n S i d d iq ue a nd Mo ha mm a d A fz al,: C h ro m o so m a l Da m age Ind uc ed b y
Androgenic Anabolic Steroids, Stanozolol and Trenbolone, in Human Lymphocytes, Am.-Eu r a sia n J .
S u sta in . A g ric ., 1 (1 ): 3 9 -4 3 , 2 0 0 7
A B STR A C T
S ta n o z o lo l a nd tre n b o lo n e , c ommon ly u se d a s p e rfo rma n c e e n ha n cin g a nd b od yb u ild in g d r ug s, we re stu d ie d
fo r th e ir g en o to x ic effe c t o n huma n lymph o c yte ch romo some s u sin g c hromo s oma l abe r r atio n s (CAs) a nd siste r
chroma tid exchange s (SCEs ) a s pa r ame te r s, both in the pr e s enc e and abs ence of me tabolic a c tiva tion (S9 mix) .
Thi s expe r iment was a imed a t finding the dos age at whi ch thes e two s te roids a r e genotoxi c enough to c aus e
chromosome damage. They were studied at 1, 10, 20, 40, 60 mM respectively, and were found to be similarly
g e n o to xic a t 4 0 and 6 0 m M, in the p re se nc e as we ll as ab se nc e o f S 9 m ix. The re sults sugge st a str o n g
genotoxi c e f fe ct of both s t e roids in v i tro in human lymphocytes.
Ke ywords : Stanozolol, Trenbolone, Androgens, Genotoxicity, Chromosomal aberrations, Sister chromatid

 

[bjg]

do you want more ??????there are hundreds more
here you go
few lines i can send you the whole article ..but i think you got the idea
Nandrolone and stanozolol damage bodybuilders' DNA
A couple of days ago we wrote about an animal study in which a one-time injection of nandrolone decanoate caused genetic damage. Now mice are not men and genetic damage is nothing like cancer, but a 2010 Brazilian study has shown that

humans can also damage their genes by using steroids.

 

[bjg]

Hypo glycemic : finally my credentials? professor (PhD ) in biomedical engineering worked in baylor medical center dallas texas and oklahoma health science center ...may i say on state of the art projects ..2 patents , many articles, been on discovery channel for your info, what more????????
oh yest 35 years of bodybuilding
not being disrespectful either
what are your credentials????????
by the way in my 35 years of bb this is my conclusion: good genetics no steroids always beats poor genetics with steroids......seen it lived it still living it .

 

[redz]

You must be a sad lonely person to do this all the time.

 

[Curt James]

Hypo glycemic : finally my credentials? professor (PhD ) in biomedical engineering worked in baylor medical center dallas texas and oklahoma health science center ...may i say on state of the art projects ..2 patents , many articles, been on discovery channel for your info, what more????????
oh yest 35 years of bodybuilding
not being disrespectful either
what are your credentials????????
by the way in my 35 years of bb this is my conclusion: good genetics no steroids always beats poor genetics with steroids......seen it lived it still living it .

Brother Doctor, calm down. I don't believe Hypo was being flippant as much as genuinely curious about your credentials.

I'd definitely agree with your belief -- good gen w no AAS > poor gen w AAS, but that doesn't address superior genetics with intelligently applied AAS.

This is probably why I've never pinned -- Chihuahua structure. Why put a HEMI in a Yugo?

 

[hypo_glycemic]

Hypo glycemic : finally my credentials? professor (PhD ) in biomedical engineering worked in baylor medical center dallas texas and oklahoma health science center ...may i say on state of the art projects ..2 patents , many articles, been on discovery channel for your info, what more????????
oh yest 35 years of bodybuilding
not being disrespectful either
what are your credentials????????
by the way in my 35 years of bb this is my conclusion: good genetics no steroids always beats poor genetics with steroids......seen it lived it still living it .

Good to hear. My credentials are nothing as of a PHD..However I do have a BA in Nutrition and minor in food science. I've been around competitive bodybuilding since 1984.

I agree that if (abused) there are significant sides regarding internal organs and the main thing (possible plack build up around heart)...haven't seen facts about if the plack as a cause of death as much as vent health affects on heart. Since 1984 I've never seen a death- or cause of death from AAS. In fact, the stuff --it seems-- that you copied and pasted, doesn't have any relation to "death" using AAS? Only "test" that are associated with your stance, that have no record in regards to death?

I'm not going to the alcohol and tobacco piece because we all know about those substances and the adverse sides and number of deaths realted to those.. I have a professor at Cal Poly San Louis Obispo CA that taught us in labs class the pros and cons of AAS. Also the ER room list, there has not been one death from a OD from AAS or long term use (documented). I think most of what we studied is abuse of cetain anabolics having problems with liver and kidney functions. Due to the fact there is not one valididation that concurs a death from direct use of AAS..I'd like to read more of the publications you have written.

I like this debate. You or whoever has some valid points. I don't dispute the internal organ piece and how some things can cuase damaged if used wrong or obessive use.. If you have been around body building for 30 plus years, you would know that all "steroid deaths" are caused from diuretics causing dehydrtation causing kidney failure and other problems. Not from direct use of AAS. If you can show me one death associated from the direct use of steroids, I'd be happy to see one..just one..listed and documented steroid death. Not the side affects that were done on animals..just one?

Regards

 

[Glycomann]

Comparing smoking to anabolic steroids in terms of harmful effects is a false comparison. Smoking, which introduces 100s of carcinogens into the body, none of which resemble in structure or effect those attributes of any steroid hormone makes the comparison only a convenient falsehood for you to perpetuate the life of your opinion in this thread.

AAS may very well increase health risks but the OP dismisses the literature as so much bias reporting, clearly lacking any objectivity himself. He projects his own intellectual weakness onto all of the scientific community rather than enter into the situation with defined questions and reading the literature in earnest.


It is curious to me that the internet provides a comfortable platform for these individuals that fail to think and seemingly are supported by like minded intellectually incurious individuals. This making all that actually think suffer their foolishness.

His arguments are so improperly crafted that there is no argument. All that exists is an unsupported opinion packed with emotion and distrust of the sources of information that would inform him of the truth or at least guide him closer to that reality.

This thread disgusts me.

 

[bjg]

Good to hear. My credentials are nothing as of a PHD..However I do have a BA in Nutrition and minor in food science. I've been around competitive bodybuilding since 1984.

I agree that if (abused) there are significant sides regarding internal organs and the main thing (possible plack build up around heart)...haven't seen facts about if the plack as a cause of death as much as vent health affects on heart. Since 1984 I've never seen a death- or cause of death from AAS. In fact, the stuff --it seems-- that you copied and pasted, doesn't have any relation to "death" using AAS? Only "test" that are associated with your stance, that have no record in regards to death?

I'm not going to the alcohol and tobacco piece because we all know about those substances and the adverse sides and number of deaths realted to those.. I have a professor at Cal Poly San Louis Obispo CA that taught us in labs class the pros and cons of AAS. Also the ER room list, there has not been one death from a OD from AAS or long term use (documented). I think most of what we studied is abuse of cetain anabolics having problems with liver and kidney functions. Due to the fact there is not one valididation that concurs a death from direct use of AAS..I'd like to read more of the publications you have written.

I like this debate. You or whoever has some valid points. I don't dispute the internal organ piece and how some things can cuase damaged if used wrong or obessive use.. If you have been around body building for 30 plus years, you would know that all "steroid deaths" are caused from diuretics causing dehydrtation causing kidney failure and other problems. Not from direct use of AAS. If you can show me one death associated from the direct use of steroids, I'd be happy to see one..just one..listed and documented steroid death. Not the side affects that were done on animals..just one?

Regards

first i did not mean to be arrogant with you again some of the studies i posted said (as i always say) it is very hard to DIRECTLY link death to steroids ..it is a complicated process and as you know one thing can lead to another. besides you don't have to die ..just being unhealthy and always under risks should be enough to deter you from AAS
but lets forget about all studies and think a bit:
any imbalance in the body can be fatal or if not fatal can harm you ...excess temperature is bad, excess adrenaline is bad, excess sugar is bad....,
and excess testosterone is bad. any test level above normal level range can be bad. when on a cycle the test levels can go 100 times or more above normal level!

 

[bjg]

You must be a sad lonely person to do this all the time.

not sad at all and trust me far from being lonely (in fact i wish i was for a while need the rest if you know what i mean..) ...i do this for fun and to relax between classes or at home....

 

[hypo_glycemic]

first i did not mean to be arrogant with you again some of the studies i posted said (as i always say) it is very hard to DIRECTLY link death to steroids ..it is a complicated process and as you know one thing can lead to another. besides you don't have to die ..just being unhealthy and always under risks should be enough to deter you from AAS
but lets forget about all studies and think a bit:
any imbalance in the body can be fatal or if not fatal can harm you ...excess temperature is bad, excess adrenaline is bad, excess sugar is bad....,
and excess testosterone is bad. any test level above normal level range can be bad. when on a cycle the test levels can go 100 times or more above normal level!

It's all good man..I didn't think you were coming off arrogant at all...

We can all agree to disagree.

Just not sure why your on a bodybuilding forum taking a gamble on "junk science"? If you can't document one death,. everything would be negated.

 

[bjg]

It's all good man..I didn't think you were coming off arrogant at all...

We can all agree to disagree.

Just not sure why your on a bodybuilding forum taking a gamble on "junk science"? If you can't document one death,. everything would be negated.

i am on bodybuilding forum because i am a bodybuilder and i like bodybuilding unfortunately i did not realize that Bodybuilding = taking steroids or is it?
at least for me it is not.
and also i am on the natural bb threads right?
hey hypo g as much as i am against AAS why so many here are ragingly pro AAS? especially on a natural BB thread....when i was saying shit on the anabolic zone they told me to F ...off i think now i am entitled to tell them the same since i am on a Natural section don't you think youve got to agree with me on that one!

 

[hypo_glycemic]

i am on bodybuilding forum because i am a bodybuilder and i like bodybuilding unfortunately i did not realize that Bodybuilding = taking steroids or is it?
at least for me it is not.
and also i am on the natural bb threads right?
hey hypo g as much as i am against AAS why so many here are ragingly pro AAS? especially on a natural BB thread....when i was saying shit on the anabolic zone they told me to F ...off i think now i am entitled to tell them the same since i am on a Natural section don't you think youve got to agree with me on that one!

I think it's the fact of not proving (a death) related to AAS? Even though it's the natural section, people are going to have opinions and not agree with your "studies" in general.

I have respect for people who don't use AAS and have a lot of friends who feel the same way you do. But at the end of the day, they will admit that they haven't found any truth to accusations and a cause of death due to pinning testosterone or let's say..strong anabolics.

As far as being "entitled to tell people what you think"..,It's freedom of speach-even if your wrong or right. IMO you don't have validity nor true documentation on AAS..So moving forward-or until you can come up with a death related to AAS use-It's still "junk science" and always will be- to be honest

 

[Arnold]

why do people care what other people put into their bodies?

 

[Curt James]

why do people care what other people put into their bodies?

If I had a family member pulling a Whitney I'd care very much, but I don't see a difference between a woman dealing with menopause by manipulating hormones and a man doing similar. Still don't understand the illegality of hormone use in males.

And, yes, bjg, I remember you have no issue with legitimate TRT.

 

[BIGBEN2011]

i use gear but i am all so mature enough and smart enough to know that they are harmfull to you.and if what bjg puts on here does not make you think and want to stay as save as possable you are either dumb ass or a teen.when i was a teen i would have been saying dumb shit to bjg like steriods are cool they dont hurt you and you must be sad he is a fucking dr i am more than willing to hear some of his points of view and some may be wroung lots of what dr say are.but a lot is right to i am sure and i am allso smart enough to know people die from steriods all the time if you dont believe that there is a word for that it is denial.the thing i will take away from this thread is to use a small amount of test as i can to get the results i want.and hope like hell it does not end up killing me one day.thats real shit no study.just comen since from a regular joe.

 

[bjg]

i use gear but i am all so mature enough and smart enough to know that they are harmfull to you.and if what bjg puts on here does not make you think and want to stay as save as possable you are either dumb ass or a teen.when i was a teen i would have been saying dumb shit to bjg like steriods are cool they dont hurt you and you must be sad he is a fucking dr i am more than willing to hear some of his points of view and some may be wroung lots of what dr say are.but a lot is right to i am sure and i am allso smart enough to know people die from steriods all the time if you dont believe that there is a word for that it is denial.the thing i will take away from this thread is to use a small amount of test as i can to get the results i want.and hope like hell it does not end up killing me one day.thats real shit no study.just comen since from a regular joe.

hey thanx BIGBEN it takes courage to admit what you just did......true...today teens don't respect anybody ....times are really changing
by the way here is something that happened today: i was in my friend's gym talking to him (he is a pro) and discussing what new logo he is going to use for his gym and he suggested to use the shape like a drawing of a bodybuilder...so i told him to use Serge Nubret as a model, then he asked me what happened to Nubret , so i answered that he died...then he asked how old was he ...i answered 72..
so he replied well that's good enough for a pro bodybuilder!
now Nubret's death may or may have nothing to do with steroids ,..the point here is my friend's ANSWER.

 

[ciulloboe]

good read.

 

[hypo_glycemic]

I agree with some of what BJG has to say, BUT, the argument is that steroids can kill you? However, he or anybody has never documented proof that steroids "directly" have killed anybody?

 

[hypo_glycemic]

i use gear but i am all so mature enough and smart enough to know that they are harmfull to you.and if what bjg puts on here does not make you think and want to stay as save as possable you are either dumb ass or a teen.when i was a teen i would have been saying dumb shit to bjg like steriods are cool they dont hurt you and you must be sad he is a fucking dr i am more than willing to hear some of his points of view and some may be wroung lots of what dr say are.but a lot is right to i am sure and i am allso smart enough to know people die from steriods all the time if you dont believe that there is a word for that it is denial.the thing i will take away from this thread is to use a small amount of test as i can to get the results i want.and hope like hell it does not end up killing me one day.thats real shit no study.just comen since from a regular joe.

All respect bro, but where is proof that a steroid has killed anybody? And not indirectly .. Not just sides and alleged this or that, just document one death "directly" contributed to AAS? You made some big claims- so I was curious where you're info was obtained? Again, not being a dick , but your all over the place in your post bro.

 

[BFHammer]

Where do you draw the line between cosmetic and medical is a question. I've been prescribed TRT for years and it turns out how it was administered just made things worse. Since the anthrax vaccinations my whole system is fucked. The VA prescribed test at 200 every other week. Now years later I go and research it more and realized the test just increased estrogen because I'm 80 lbs overweight from the insulin resistance/sleep apnea etc. They are not allowed to prescribe a AI or HCG so I ended up here for information. Insulin resistance has an inverse relationship to testosterone, how high should my test be to counter that? The extra 80lbs is far more dangerous than AAS.
Testosterone Replacement May Lower Death Rate Among Type 2 Men - Diabetes Health

APR 2011: Low Testosterone, Early Death? | Health and Fitness Tips for Men & Women
Men with the highest testosterone levels were 41% less likely to die when compared to those with lower levels. “We found that low testosterone predicts early mortality in men over the next 10 years or so,” Khaw said. “But we think this finding needs to be replicated.”

So yes I'm at the point I will take as much as necessary along with GHRP 2, cjc, AI's to get my body and life back. As I have to be on test for the rest of my life who is to say the doctor has the right to tell me where my levels should be when their range is massive?
What about someone who has a mental issues about their body image? Is that still cosmetic or does that stray over to medical? Who should decide the doctor or the patient?

And Cholesterol has nearly zero impact on heart attacks other than if it's too low. Cholesterol Does Not Cause Heart Disease

Statin drugs however will screw you up in an attempt to fix something that doesn't need a fix.

 

[Curt James]

^^^^ Reps on recharge.

 

[bjg]

BFHammer, cholesterol does cause heart problems and cardiovascular problems and can kill you, if you read the article you will see that the guy was talking about slightly high cholesterol .....if cholesterol is high it will damage your arteries and obstruct them and this will cause your heart to struggle and to fail...no question about that.... period.
now some studies suggested that eating high cholesterol food does not cause heart problems because there is a difference between high cholesterol due to food intake and high cholesterol formed in the blood one does not necessarily cause the other) some other claims were made following an experiment on rabbits. Note that for every medical claim there is always another medical counterclaim However steroid use does rise cholesterol levels in the blood directly and that is not good at all.

anyways here is some quotes regarding AAS from the well known casey viator former champion and now renown international trainer during an interview.

Q: Casey, what are your thoughts on the future of bodybuilding?

A: I'm a little concerned about the large amounts of chemicals these guys are using, and I hope, somehow it can be toned down in the future. It hurts to see these guys ruining there health, just for cash and trophy's. There is a wonderful life after competing if you don't damage your insides too much with chemicals.

And as far as steroids are concerned i think i posted enough studies and there are hundreds more....

 

[BP2000]

Good to hear. My credentials are nothing as of a PHD..However I do have a BA in Nutrition and minor in food science. I've been around competitive bodybuilding since 1984.

I agree that if (abused) there are significant sides regarding internal organs and the main thing (possible plack build up around heart)...haven't seen facts about if the plack as a cause of death as much as vent health affects on heart. Since 1984 I've never seen a death- or cause of death from AAS. In fact, the stuff --it seems-- that you copied and pasted, doesn't have any relation to "death" using AAS? Only "test" that are associated with your stance, that have no record in regards to death?

I'm not going to the alcohol and tobacco piece because we all know about those substances and the adverse sides and number of deaths realted to those.. I have a professor at Cal Poly San Louis Obispo CA that taught us in labs class the pros and cons of AAS. Also the ER room list, there has not been one death from a OD from AAS or long term use (documented). I think most of what we studied is abuse of cetain anabolics having problems with liver and kidney functions.
I If you can show me one death associated from the direct use of steroids, I'd be happy to see one..just one..listed and documented steroid death. Not the side affects that were done on animals..just one?

Regards

There is a big difference in using and ABUSING. You can drink a few beers a week and it won't hurt you. But if you can abuse alcohol and cause problem's.

Here is abuse. How did his liver get so bad.

Andreas Munzer's? scary stuff.
After months of stomach pain, Münzer was admitted to hospital on the morning of March 12. By 7pm, doctors had decided to operate to stop bleeding from his stomach, but shortly afterwards his liver and then kidneys failed. His condition by this point was too severe for a blood transfusion???he died on the morning of March 13, aged 31.[1][2]
The autopsy gave the cause of death as dystrophic multiple-organ-failure.[3] Some of the specific autopsy findings:[3]
* An extremely muscular physique, with an almost complete absence of subcutaneous fat
* Affecting the liver were numerous table-tennis-ball-sized tumors, typical for doping; half the liver consisted simply of a crumbly mass, similar to polystyrene (Styrofoam)
* Diminutive testes
* Cardiac hypertrophy (Münzer's heart weighed 636g; a normal man's heart usually weighs 300???350g)
Münzer's electrolytes were also completely out of balance, and his potassium levels were extremely high. Traces of about twenty different drugs were found, along with acute toxicity (perhaps caused by a stimulant).
Schwarzenegger sent a wreath to Munzer's funeral in Styria, with the message 'A last greeting to a friend.'[citation needed]
[edit] Münzer's drug regimen[3]
Daily
* Ephedrin
* AN 1
* Captagon
* Aspirin (to thin his blood and help with the pain of training)
* Valium
* Clenbuterol (muscle growth with fat loss)

10???6 weeks before an event
* 2 Injections of 250 mg Testoviron (mass gain in the muscles)
* 1 Injection Parabolan (anabolic to muscle growth)
* 30 Tablets Halotestin (anabolic steroid for force production)
* 30 Tablets Metandienone (anabolic steroid for mass and force production)
* 16 IU of STH (growth hormone: Muscle growth with simultaneous fat loss)
* 20 IU of Insulin

5???2 weeks before an event
* 3 Injections Masteron (for muscle hardship and sharpness)
* 2 Injections Parabolan (anabolic to muscle growth)
* 30 Tablets Halotestin (anabolic steroid for force production)
* 50 Tablets Stromba (anabolic to muscle maintenance and definition with more hardship)
* 2 Injections Stromba (anabolic to muscle maintenance and definition with more hardship)
* 24 IU of STH (growth hormone: Muscle growth with simultaneous fat loss)

Two weeks everyday until the competition
* 2 Injections Masteron (for muscle hardship and sharpness)
* 2 Injections Stromba (anabolic to muscle maintenance and definition with more hardship)
* 40 Tablets Halotestin (anabolic steroid for force production)
* 80 Tablets Stromba (anabolic to muscle maintenance and definition with more hardship)
* 24 IU of STH (growth hormone)
* Insulin
* Aldactone, and Lasix (water reduction in the muscle)

 

[vancouver]

Curt: i really don't need any studies i can see around me what is happening and again many studies done on the same subject are contradictory ..it all depends who is funding these studies...however objective medical books are clear about steroids effects and one does not need a study to reach conclusions.
and who knows perhaps tomorrow a study will come out and tell you that steroids cause a heart attack ..what would you do if you were a steroid user? would you say Fuck iam screwed!
there are no studies stating that smoking directly causes lung cancer and no one knows how cancer really starts and yet you cannot deny that smoking can cause cancer.
and finally i showed in many other threads studies that are conclusive about some steroids causing cysts on internal organs and even causing chromosomal damage to users and offsprings and i mean conclusive studies done on animals.

BS! The rising rate of death of athletes has been attributed to increased concussion rates; something you haven't considered because you've got preconcieved notions about AAS. All you've read is subject matter that supports your notion.

Abuse of any drug can increase risk of death. How many athletes have we heard about who took AAS, but also abused alcohol and coke? How many athletes are there with supperior genetics where proper diet is an afterthought...Michael Phelps is well known for training on a diet of cheese burgers and twinkies (this catches up to you). How many athletes have died of natural causes, but had poor genetics (no AAS, no media attention).

While the U.S. war on durgs has made AAS research difficult, there are plenty of studies all over the world. There is no smoking gun. There is no evidence that AAS used responsibly is more dangerous than a person smoking cigars on the weekend or eating bacon and eggs once a week.

If you're doing superdrol and getting hammered every night, it's not the AAS fault you're now on dialysis...

 

[lee111s]

Don't forget, there's a difference between use and abuse, just like anything in life!

 

[bjg]

BS! The rising rate of death of athletes has been attributed to increased concussion rates; something you haven't considered because you've got preconcieved notions about AAS. All you've read is subject matter that supports your notion.

Abuse of any drug can increase risk of death. How many athletes have we heard about who took AAS, but also abused alcohol and coke? How many athletes are there with supperior genetics where proper diet is an afterthought...Michael Phelps is well known for training on a diet of cheese burgers and twinkies (this catches up to you). How many athletes have died of natural causes, but had poor genetics (no AAS, no media attention).

While the U.S. war on durgs has made AAS research difficult, there are plenty of studies all over the world. There is no smoking gun. There is no evidence that AAS used responsibly is more dangerous than a person smoking cigars on the weekend or eating bacon and eggs once a week.

If you're doing superdrol and getting hammered every night, it's not the AAS fault you're now on dialysis...

of course abuse of any drug can cause health issues...of course smoking and eating bad can cause health issue ...but do these arguments mean that steroids are ok????? if you take 20 pills of advil a day you will have health issues but does this mean that steroids are ok???? your argument in bringing in causes of death other than steroids does not negate the fact that steroids causes death. Again medical books are clear about it. and steroids used for bodybuilding ARE ALREADY IN THE ABUSE ZONE. Medical treatments with steroids as far as dosages are concerned are nowhere near what bodybuilders take when doing a cycle.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

there are plenty of "links" lol