Not looking good for California Prop 8

[bio-chem]

Two males raising a duckling doesn't constitute being gay. Do they have sex?

birds don't have penisis

 

[bio-chem]

How is it detrimental?

So if a guy had sex with your daughter for the purpose of later abducting the child and raising it with another man you would be ok with it?

 

[tucker01]

So if a guy had sex with your daughter for the purpose of later abducting the child and raising it with another man you would be ok with it?

No question is more in reference of how a gay couple is detrimental

 

[Little Wing]

yet more behavior exhibited in nature that I don't think is appropriate for humans.

so the whole world should be run by what YOU think is appropriate but you do not have to accept what anyone else believes?


sometimes the only way to open a closed mind is with dynamite.

 

[Little Wing]

birds don't have penisis

swans do.

Among birds, only paleognathes (tinamous and ratites) and Anatidae (ducks, geese and swans) possess a penis. It is different in structure from mammal penes, being an erectile expansion of the cloacal wall and being erected by lymph, not blood. It is usually partially feathered and in some species features spines and brush-like filaments, and in flaccid state curled up inside the cloaca. The Argentine Blue-bill has the largest penis in relation to body size of all vertebrates; while usually about half the body size (20 cm), a specimen with a remarkable 42.5 cm-long penis is documented.

 

[bio-chem]

so the whole world should be run by what YOU think is appropriate but you do not have to accept what anyone else believes?


sometimes the only way to open a closed mind is with dynamite.

dont give that asinine shit.

show me anyone who would accept a man having a child with a woman for the purpose of driving her away and raising it with another man.

this isn't about me or me pushing my beliefs on anyone. you have yet to show that homosexuality is coming from birth, therefore natural and should be openly accepted. the argument that homosexuality happens in nature so should be accepted in human culture has so many holes in it to really just be a waste of time, space and energy that i can't believe it has been used yet again.

 

[ZECH]

there are other boys who have played with dolls and ended up being gay.

I'm sure both of us played with dolls as young boys. Neither of us are gay.

 

[KelJu]

I'm sure both of us played with dolls as young boys. Neither of us are gay.

Hahaha you fag! You played with dolls.


But seriously, Ninja turtles were the shit!

 

[ZECH]

So if they aren't going to procreate then they shouldn't be able to get married?

At least in theory

 

[DOMS]

I'm sure both of us played with dolls as young boys. Neither of us are gay.

Have you met Iain?

 

[ZECH]

That is a good point that I can't explain. I have also seen this. However, someone once told me something that helped me understand it. It was a guy who said he use to have sex with men and women. I exclaimed that I didn't know he was bi-sexual. He said "I never said I was bi-sexual, I said I had sex with men and women".



He later told me that he had a rough childhood where he didn't feel loved and wanted. He sought to find that love in the wrong places and didn't realize it until he was older and wiser.

That might explain the situation with the women saying their are gay after a bad relationship with a guy. They may not truly be gay, however their fear of being mistreated and hurt again causes them to believe something that isn't true.

However this opens up a backdoor for attack of my argument that sexual preference isn't a choice. I think most of the time it isn't a choice but, there are times where trauma can cause someone who isn't suppose to be a certain way turn out that way. In a sense that still isn't a choice exactly.

Self defense mechanisms are a crazy damn thing. I don't pretend to understand what is goign on at that deep level of the mind.

Good post. Makes arguments for both sides.

 

[ZECH]

Hahaha you fag! You played with dolls.


But seriously, Ninja turtles were the shit!

LMAO, cowabunga dude!

 

[ZECH]

there was a male there also. the stuff her n i did was for his amusement. it didn't really bother me but it really surprised me that touching her n being touched by her was "like touching cardboard... just not exciting". i don't see why it's so hard to understand some people feel that way toward the opposite sex. i can choose to sleep with a woman but i cannot choose to sexually respond to one. i wasn't adverse to responding i just felt nothing. i really doubt so many same sex lovers would do it without sexual feelings and responses being there. wth would be the point?

What if the female was a shemale and had a big dick. Is she male or female? Would you feel different if she/he could have intercourse with you and you actually enjoyed it?? Food for thought.
And no I could never be attracted to another male no matter what. I would die first.

 

[Little Wing]

dont give that asinine shit.

show me anyone who would accept a man having a child with a woman for the purpose of driving her away and raising it with another man.

this isn't about me or me pushing my beliefs on anyone. you have yet to show that homosexuality is coming from birth, therefore natural and should be openly accepted. the argument that homosexuality happens in nature so should be accepted in human culture has so many holes in it to really just be a waste of time, space and energy that i can't believe it has been used yet again.

numerous gay male couples have used surrogate mothers to have children.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/national/27surrogate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

[bio-chem]

numerous gay male couples have used surrogate mothers to have children.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/national/27surrogate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

thats not what this is about is it? you're grasping at straws. you can not use something in the animal kingdom to prove that humans should follow suit. why would humans follow those lower down the proverbial evolutionary chain?

LW you need to come back at this from a different angle. This line of argument does not hold water.

Swans, geese, baboons, monkeys, spiders, dogs, cats, whatever cant be used to ague in favor of prop 8.

 

[Little Wing]

dont give that asinine shit.

show me anyone who would accept a man having a child with a woman for the purpose of driving her away and raising it with another man.

this isn't about me or me pushing my beliefs on anyone. you have yet to show that homosexuality is coming from birth, therefore natural and should be openly accepted. the argument that homosexuality happens in nature so should be accepted in human culture has so many holes in it to really just be a waste of time, space and energy that i can't believe it has been used yet again.

prove your god exists? prove your heterosexuality is the only moral union that will not erode society...


do you realize how many rapists, murderers, cannibals, child molesters, etc were raised in two parent straight homes? prove gays can do worse.

mary got pregnant without getting fucked surrrreeeee. prove it.


this isn't about proof it's about acceptance. not everyone likes the same thing, in food, art or the bedroom. either you can accept it and let each man or woman choose what works best for them or you can't.

 

[Little Wing]

thats not what this is about is it? you're grasping at straws. you can not use something in the animal kingdom to prove that humans should follow suit. why would humans follow those lower down the proverbial evolutionary chain?

LW you need to come back at this from a different angle. This line of argument does not hold water.

Swans, geese, baboons, monkeys, spiders, dogs, cats, whatever cant be used to ague in favor of prop 8.

to many god is a joke, a fairy tale, and should not be used to argue anything but part of your argument is that prop 8 threatens the doctrine of your church.

 

[KelJu]

this isn't about proof it's about acceptance. not everyone likes the same thing, in food, art or the bedroom. either you can accept it and let each man or woman choose what works best for them or you can't.

This is one of the best sounding arguments I have heard. This isn't about proof or it would have been settled already. This is about acceptance.

 

[maniclion]

swans do.

Among birds, only paleognathes (tinamous and ratites) and Anatidae (ducks, geese and swans) possess a penis. It is different in structure from mammal penes, being an erectile expansion of the cloacal wall and being erected by lymph, not blood. It is usually partially feathered and in some species features spines and brush-like filaments, and in flaccid state curled up inside the cloaca. The Argentine Blue-bill has the largest penis in relation to body size of all vertebrates; while usually about half the body size (20 cm), a specimen with a remarkable 42.5 cm-long penis is documented.

So they have a "Lymph Dick" huh?

 

[Little Wing]

 

[maniclion]

Why is it so hard to reason that if we can have physically ambiguous birth defects like hermaphrodites or chimeras, that we can't have some with a mental mix up or even some that have all physical appearances of a male yet the mental make-up of a female? I will agree that there are some homosexuals that may have chosen to be gay for reasons we don't understand but I have to give the benefit of the doubt to those who may have been born that way.... Judaism is a religion yet so many people treat it as though it were a race and you are just born a Jew....

 

[bio-chem]

to many god is a joke, a fairy tale, and should not be used to argue anything but part of your argument is that prop 8 threatens the doctrine of your church.

my argument simply states that my church can simply continue to teach it's doctrines because prop 8 passed. not that gay marriage threatens the doctrines of my church. if prop 8 had failed my church can now be brought in court for simply teaching it's doctrines. i think not. the government can't tell my church what doctrines to preach.

 

[DOMS]

to many god is a joke, a fairy tale, and should not be used to argue anything but part of your argument is that prop 8 threatens the doctrine of your church.

It's clear that you don't know the whole story.

 

[bio-chem]

prove your god exists? prove your heterosexuality is the only moral union that will not erode society...


do you realize how many rapists, murderers, cannibals, child molesters, etc were raised in two parent straight homes? prove gays can do worse.

mary got pregnant without getting fucked surrrreeeee. prove it.


this isn't about proof it's about acceptance. not everyone likes the same thing, in food, art or the bedroom. either you can accept it and let each man or woman choose what works best for them or you can't.

statistics show that children raised in a home with a mother and father do better. thats proof enough. yea, there are exceptions, but that doesn't prove your point.

 

[bio-chem]

It's clear that you don't know the whole story.

 

[DOMS]

I already explained it. What more can I do?

 

[bio-chem]

I already explained it. What more can I do?

im not sure. i like how im the one blamed for being stubborn though

 

[KelJu]

statistics show that children raised in a home with a mother and father do better. thats proof enough. yea, there are exceptions, but that doesn't prove your point.

What are the statistics for how well children fair being passed around foster homes as opposed to how well children fair growing up in a gay household?

 

[Will Brink]

dont give that asinine shit.

show me anyone who would accept a man having a child with a woman for the purpose of driving her away and raising it with another man.

this isn't about me or me pushing my beliefs on anyone. you have yet to show that homosexuality is coming from birth, therefore natural and should be openly accepted. the argument that homosexuality happens in nature so should be accepted in human culture has so many holes in it to really just be a waste of time, space and energy that i can't believe it has been used yet again.

Personally, I don't give a rats ass if it's from birth or not. Irrelevant. The state has no compelling reason to tell adults what they cando with their body or who they can marry. As long as it does not include animals or children, and or does not prevent others from their own persuit of life, liberty, and happiness, what others do is none of my business. And by "my" I mean the state, society, or moralizing Bible thumpers. There were laws not long ago that prevented people of different races from getting married. Most people would be disgusted by that today, but it was the social norm then, and a few of those laws are still being used against gay people.(1) Equal Rights is Equal Rights, not just rights for those you agree with or don't threaten your social norms (which change over time whether you and I like it or not) or go against your religion.

A state altering it's own Const. to add bigotry to it, is a low point in our nations history and a big step backwards for Equal Rights as promised by the Bill of Rights and Const.

(1) IN 1913 a law was passed in Massachusetts to prevent interracial couples from other parts of the US marrying in the state.

At the time, 30 of 48 states had banned interracial marriage, and a number of states, including Massachusetts, then passed laws that would keep interracial couples from crossing borders to marry in their jurisdiction.
Relationships like this were once prohibited in many US states

Relationships like this were once prohibited in many US states

Thankfully, the archaic marriage law – a reminder of America’s disgraceful racist past - fell into disuse.
But it was then discovered that the law could be invoked to prevent gay and lesbian couples from most other states from marrying in Massachusetts.

So the House of Representatives yesterday did the right thing and voted, by a huge majority, to scrap it.
The Catholic Church, of course, is outraged.

Cont:

The Freethinker ??? Massachusetts scraps archaic racist law â?????? and the archaic Catholic Church is, of course, furious

 

[KelJu]

Personally, I don't give a rats ass if it's from birth or not. Irrelevant. The state has no compelling reason to tell adults what they can do with their body or who they can marry. As long as it does not include animals or children, and or does not prevent others from their own persuit of life, liberty, and happiness, what others do is none of my business. And by "my" I mean the state, society, or moralizing Bible thumpers. There were laws not long ago that prevented people of different races from getting married. Most people would be disgusted by that today, but it was the social norm then, and a few of those laws are still being used against gay people. Equal Rights is Equal Rights, not just rights for those you agree with or don't threaten your social norms (which change over time whether you and I like it or not) or go against your religion.

A state altering it's own Const. to add bigotry to it, is a low point in our nations history and a big step backwards for Equal Rights as promised by the Bill of Rights and Const.

You are a true dickhead sometimes, but damn you make good points.