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Obama's Not Exactly's

dg806 said:
For the most part, an adult, will not change their ways of acting and behavior. People do not like change. That has been proven. All I ask, is you prove how an individual can grow up learning and practicing muslim, and then totally abandon everything he was taught and how he lived. It's not gonna happen IMO. I just think he is trying to appease EVERYONE to get votes and thats it.
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So in that case, there is no such thing as a person growing up in the ghetto and a life of crime finding Jesus as an adult. In that case, what we are at 11 is what we are for the rest of our life. In that case, we all would be what our parents are.


I'm not going to try and fight ya'll on this anymore. I can't believe you said that. As a way to sear a man you pose the argument that people can't change that much.
 
KelJu said:
So in that case, there is no such thing as a person growing up in the ghetto and a life of crime finding Jesus as an adult. In that case, what we are at 11 is what we are for the rest of our life. In that case, we all would be what our parents are.


I'm not going to try and fight ya'll on this anymore. I can't believe you said that. As a way to sear a man you pose the argument that people can't change that much.
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:)
 
KelJu said:
So in that case, there is no such thing as a person growing up in the ghetto and a life of crime finding Jesus as an adult. In that case, what we are at 11 is what we are for the rest of our life. In that case, we all would be what our parents are.


I'm not going to try and fight ya'll on this anymore. I can't believe you said that. As a way to sear a man you pose the argument that people can't change that much.
Click to expand...


I don't think DG meant that people aren't capable of change....I think he meant that they are more likely to stay pretty close to the examples of their upbringing.

Everybody can change, some much more dramatically than others.
 
KelJu said:
So in that case, there is no such thing as a person growing up in the ghetto and a life of crime finding Jesus as an adult. In that case, what we are at 11 is what we are for the rest of our life. In that case, we all would be what our parents are.


I'm not going to try and fight ya'll on this anymore. I can't believe you said that. As a way to sear a man you pose the argument that people can't change that much.
Click to expand...
When I was 11-12 years old after having gone to Baptist Church every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday plus Bible camp every other summer I completely quit going and started studying Zen Buddhism on my own. It was a personal choice with no one else trying to sway my opinion I just did it because I'd read a few things about it and it had really piqued my curiosity. So saying that people can't make 180 degree turns from what they knew as a child is a bit on the gloomy side of thinking in my opinion....
 
KelJu said:
So in that case, there is no such thing as a person growing up in the ghetto and a life of crime finding Jesus as an adult. In that case, what we are at 11 is what we are for the rest of our life. In that case, we all would be what our parents are.


I'm not going to try and fight ya'll on this anymore. I can't believe you said that. As a way to sear a man you pose the argument that people can't change that much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't mean people can't change, but it's highly unlikely and doesn't happen very often.
As far as finding Jesus, most people do that just to make people think they've changed. People in Prison do it all the time. When they get out, what happens. Same crime all over again for the most part. Very few change for the good. This is just my perspective on people that I've observed.
 
maniclion said:
When I was 11-12 years old after having gone to Baptist Church every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday plus Bible camp every other summer I completely quit going and started studying Zen Buddhism on my own. It was a personal choice with no one else trying to sway my opinion I just did it because I'd read a few things about it and it had really piqued my curiosity. So saying that people can't make 180 degree turns from what they knew as a child is a bit on the gloomy side of thinking in my opinion....
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And the ones I see change are just like this. When they change they do a complete 180. But again, I think it's rare. I've got a friend that is hooked on painkillers. He was a good, clean cut guy at one time and was actually a police officer. Once he started taking pills , his life went to shit. OVer the last few years, everytime I saw him, he would tell me he had been clean for the last 3-6 months. Then the next time I see him, he looked worse than the time before. He didn't quit, just wanted me to think he did.
 
dg806 said:
And the ones I see change are just like this. When they change they do a complete 180. But again, I think it's rare. I've got a friend that is hooked on painkillers. He was a good, clean cut guy at one time and was actually a police officer. Once he started taking pills , his life went to shit. OVer the last few years, everytime I saw him, he would tell me he had been clean for the last 3-6 months. Then the next time I see him, he looked worse than the time before. He didn't quit, just wanted me to think he did.
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Hey DG, I think folks who don't know what you do for a living tend to overlook the fact that you deal with harsh reality on a daily basis. Just like the majority of first responders, et al, you guys get to deal with the finest our communities have to offer.:rolleyes:
 
dg806 said:
Yeah, I didn't mean people can't change, but it's highly unlikely and doesn't happen very often.
As far as finding Jesus, most people do that just to make people think they've changed. People in Prison do it all the time. When they get out, what happens. Same crime all over again for the most part. Very few change for the good. This is just my perspective on people that I've observed.
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Sure I can buy that. It doesn't happen very often for sure. But, it does happen, and it especially happens at the religious belief level as opposed to the individual character level.

One can have their beliefs changed on what they believe to be the nature of the universe very easily. One can nto change their own nature very easily. I woudl say changign your nature is the hardest thign in world to do.

My argument is that nobody really knows what Obama's parents taught him both religious and how they shaped his character as a good moral person.
We don't know. We don't know how Mccain's parents taught him.

But, Obama hasn't ever shown any evidence to be what most of the people in this thread are accusing him to be. Thats my point is all. Attack the man. Don't attack every person he has ever known. Seems to me that nobody can get any real dirt on him, so they attack anyone close to him that might have some dirt.
 
Frank Marshall Davis
Frank Marshall Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Sometime during the period 1943-1945, Davis joined the Communist Party of the United States (CPUSA), although he never publicly admitted his party membership. Davis published pieces in CPUSA-supported publications"

there's some 'real dirt' on this schmucko, and more than enough to damn him in respects to my vote.
 
lucifuge said:
Frank Marshall Davis
Frank Marshall Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Sometime during the period 1943-1945, Davis joined the Communist Party of the United States (CPUSA), although he never publicly admitted his party membership. Davis published pieces in CPUSA-supported publications"

there's some 'real dirt' on this schmucko, and more than enough to damn him in respects to my vote.
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Why should there be dirt?
 
KelJu said:
Sure I can buy that. It doesn't happen very often for sure. But, it does happen, and it especially happens at the religious belief level as opposed to the individual character level.

One can have their beliefs changed on what they believe to be the nature of the universe very easily. One can nto change their own nature very easily. I woudl say changign your nature is the hardest thign in world to do.

My argument is that nobody really knows what Obama's parents taught him both religious and how they shaped his character as a good moral person.
We don't know. We don't know how Mccain's parents taught him.

But, Obama hasn't ever shown any evidence to be what most of the people in this thread are accusing him to be. Thats my point is all. Attack the man. Don't attack every person he has ever known. Seems to me that nobody can get any real dirt on him, so they attack anyone close to him that might have some dirt.
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:)
 
DaMayor said:
Hey DG, I think folks who don't know what you do for a living tend to overlook the fact that you deal with harsh reality on a daily basis. Just like the majority of first responders, et al, you guys get to deal with the finest our communities have to offer.:rolleyes:
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You know, that makes alot of sense and maybe my view is kinda distorted and maybe I seem more negative than I realize. But like you say, that is all I see. Show me something different and I will believe it.
 
dg806 said:
You know, that makes alot of sense and maybe my view is kinda distorted and maybe I seem more negative than I realize. But like you say, that is all I see. Show me something different and I will believe it.
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I don't think you view is distorted, just a little less idealistic and flowery than someone who hasn't seen what really goes on out there. ;)
 
DaMayor said:
I don't think you view is distorted, just a little less idealistic and flowery than someone who hasn't seen what really goes on out there. ;)
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You should come here to NYC and see all of the different cultures.
Not all people are bad, I am not trying to kiss up to the Muslims like someone here mentioned but if you look it up they barely make news when it comes to crimes here.

The Italian mafia....very catholic, same for the Irish IRA.

The Hispanics catholics.....lots of crime here.
The Blacks cristians....lots of crime here.
Not the Jews, but there is a huge Russian mob scene here but I have no idea what religion they follow...the Russian Jews are good with the white collar crimes (electronic, credit cards)

I do notice a few criminals who enter prison convert to the Muslim religion, whether it's the same as the other I don't know.

It's complex.


Now of course DG has seen a lot, that's like me being a food inspector.....if I see what they see I would never eat out again.
He's exposed to a lot of stuff first hand.
 
min0 lee said:
You should come here to NYC and see all of the different cultures.
Not all people are bad, I am not trying to kiss up to the Muslims like someone here mentioned but if you look it up they barely make news when it comes to crimes here.

The Italian mafia....very catholic, same for the Irish IRA.

The Hispanics catholics.....lots of crime here.
The Blacks cristians....lots of crime here.
Not the Jews, but there is a huge Russian mob scene here but I have no idea what religion they follow...the Russian Jews are good with the white collar crimes (electronic, credit cards)

I do notice a few criminals who enter prison convert to the Muslim religion, whether it's the same as the other I don't know.

It's complex.


Now of course DG has seen a lot, that's like me being a food inspector.....if I see what they see I would never eat out again.
He's exposed to a lot of stuff first hand.
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Difference: They aren't committing crimes in the name of their religion. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims are.
 
busyLivin said:
Difference: They aren't committing crimes in the name of their religion. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims are.
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The radicals right?
What I am saying is that you can't bunch them all together.
There are some decent.... oh I give up.

This world needs a Nuclear enema.
 
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min0 lee said:
The radicals right?
What I am saying is that you can't bunch them all together.
There are some decent.... oh I give up.

This world needs a Nuclear enema.
Click to expand...

I never said they all were. All I've ever said was that I'm tired of the comparisons of today's Muslim's to 1000 year old Christians as if it's some kind of justification.
 
BulkMeUp said:
:laugh:

I agree with you mino. Not all are the same. Kinda like saying all blacks are this or all whites are that... Theres good and bad in all.
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all stereotypes are born in a bit of reality
 
bio-chem said:
all stereotypes are born in a bit of reality
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Then i guess you just need to look at the people around you and judge them on the basis of each stereotype they represent. If the guy next to you is Italian, think mobster. if he is black think gun and run.. etc
 
busyLivin said:
I never said they all were. All I've ever said was that I'm tired of the comparisons of today's Muslim's to 1000 year old Christians as if it's some kind of justification.
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You made an obvous point a while ago, it seems like you are saying they are all the same.
 
min0 lee said:
That's not the right way to judge a person.
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Thats what I'm trying to say as well.... all whites are racist.. all blacks are thugs... all jews are money-grubbing assholes.. all italians are unethical and mobsters.. all muslims are terrorists... all mexicans are illegal scum.. all irish are drunken bastards .. painting a whole people with the same brush isnt right.
 
min0 lee said:
That's not the right way to judge a person.

Pretty sure you would not to be judged differently all because your a Mormon.
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i have absolutely been judged because im a mormon. ha ha. hell ive had rocks thrown at me because of it. ive had girls not go out with me because of it. ha ha.

you know what? some of the stereotypes about us are true. most of the time it is all just funny. i can handle that as a people we are different. it's true. from the eyes of society i can totally see why society looks at us differently. and im not talking about judging individuals here. but generalizations can be made about groups of people.

too many times ive seen blacks with watermellon, more mexicans than seat belts get out of a car, and yes mormon missionaries knocking on doors for there to not be a stereotype.

back to the original point. we are not fighting arabs or muslims. but the people we are fighting are arab and muslim. the complexity of the issue dictates this discussion. our soldiers over there have to worry every time a traditionally dressed woman walks by because it could be a dude dressed up trying to kill him. when enemy soldiers dont have a uniform or a flag things get exponentially difficult
 
BulkMeUp said:
... all whites are racist.. all blacks are thugs... all jews are money-grubbing assholes.. all italians are unethical and mobsters.. all muslims are terrorists... all mexicans are illegal scum.. all irish are drunken bastards ..
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Yes and?!?!?! :p
 
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