P90x

[Merkaba]

Funny that people who HAVEN'T seen the video decry how stupid they are and how stupid the people who buy it are. Ironic. My thoughts...

* Of COURSE P90X isn't for everyone, but what workout routine is? Everyone is different and needs to figure out what works for them.
* I've done P90X for almost a year now and in the first series I did I went from 245 to 210 and dropped serious body fat and look and feel MUCH better.
* Of course I could scour and scrub every forum on the internet, this one included, to read and find "new" workout routines to supplement my workouts, but my time is worth more than that. If my free time is worth $60/hour (which is pretty low IMHO) then I only need to figure that if I spend more than 2 hours looking for new routines, the the $120 for P90X is a safe buy. I get easy to follow routine with a video to watch while I do it.
* I can do 95% of the entire series on the road with high-tension bands.
* The 'actors' are far from professional athletes. The ones on the commercial sure they are professional dancers and trainers, but in one set of videos there's a 50 some year old lady.
* I find it suspect that trainers are opposed to these kinds of 'exercise at home' products, for it's obvious it risks cutting in to your business revenue model. Of course, someone should also know better than to go to a forum with professional/aspiring professional hard-core body builders and ask that kind of question. It's like going to a BMW M5 forum and asking them what they think about the Hyundai Sonata right?
* This series WILL build mass if you use enough resistance and push yourself. To say it can't build mass without seeing or doing the routines seems pretty ill-informed. Just like ANY workout routine. If I do super-sets with 10lbs, I won't gain mass either.

Bottom line is, for what the product is and what it costs, it works. If you do the workout like they say, and don't want to spend a couple hours looking for printouts of routines and/or videos, or you prefer to workout at home on your own schedule and don't want to have to hire and work around a trainer's schedule or the hours of a workout facility, IMHO it's a great product. I've been doing this with my wife for years and we both benefited, and 4-5 other couple's we know saw our results and did it, and are amazed and love it, and they told other couples who now have bought it and it works. And most of our friends and friends of friends who now have bought it never saw the infomercial.

But you have to take it for what it is. It's a thorough, broad-spectrum workout and diet program that is fairly strict. And to Merkaba who said "So give me the 120 bucks or whatever and I'll be more than happy to train you", there's not a chance in hell you would train ANYONE for 3 months with a diet and exercise program for 3 months for $120...if you do, I don't see how you would keep that business going.

If you want to poo-poo home-workout products simply because they don't involve personal trainers or high dollar equipment or customized diet and workout plans and don't use the latest and greatest technologies and 'hip new theories', that's fine, just be open about your bias before saying they won't work. For those that can toss $120 to something that is based on sound, tried and true, been around forever workouts and routines, and HAVE the self-discipline to follow it without someone barking at you OR you are like me and are on the road 2 weeks a month and want something you can do on your own, in your hotel room with little to no equipment, this is a perfect product.

And this is my first and likely last post, just had to say something as I stumbed across this looking for something else.

I'm glad you got that out.

The point is that you lost weight because youre on the road half of your life and you needed to get off your damn ass..and you created a negative calorie balance. You didnt need to exercise to do that though, as the tv and mags would have you believe. You felt better because you got off of your ass. Anything done with enough intensity and nutrition will build mass. Ok you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts that are ambiguous to those who don't know the biological paths that lead them to their supposed goals.

And youre damn right I wouldnt train for that amount, have you ever heard of "making a point" ??? The point is that you can find a myriad of ways to waste money, and i can put that dvd in and show and anatomically prove quite a few reasons why you should be doing something else. And yea some people have 120 to "toss" at it and many have hundreds more. Would you give me 5 grand a month to train you? To some of us you might as well be doing the same thing. I only train select clients here and there part time because too many are like you and think they know a bunch of shit when they don't.

I personally never said it wouldnt work. Just about Anything works if you do it enough. Starving yourself works as well. AAS works as well. Its just that some things work more efficiently and are safer than others.

As far as p90 goes, more power to em. I'd sale it if I could. However,
I'm not a fan of any conventional video system that comes on after late night t.v. Stuck cleverly in between sham-wow commercials and the latest supposed real estate guru. I mean go figure.

Now go do some fast air squats and get a p90 shake or bar or something.

 

[Vixx]

Heh, got an email with replies...interesting. Merkaba:

"The point is that you lost weight because youre on the road half of your life and you needed to get off your damn ass..and you created a negative calorie balance. You didnt need to exercise to do that though, as the tv and mags would have you believe. You felt better because you got off of your ass. Anything done with enough intensity and nutrition will build mass. Ok you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts that are ambiguous to those who don't know the biological paths that lead them to their supposed goals."

Yes, and *for me* I like the Videos because they are guided, and consistent when I am on the road. I don't go to one gym and get a gal who has X way of doing things in California, and then get to DC and get a different guy with Y way of doing things. I did that for years, and like using P90X much better. Your attempt to seem intelligent with comments like "you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts" belies the fact that you responded with derision and information that wasn't asked for from the original poster.

"And youre damn right I wouldnt train for that amount, have you ever heard of "making a point" ??? The point is that you can find a myriad of ways to waste money, and i can put that dvd in and show and anatomically prove quite a few reasons why you should be doing something else. And yea some people have 120 to "toss" at it and many have hundreds more. Would you give me 5 grand a month to train you? To some of us you might as well be doing the same thing. I only train select clients here and there part time because too many are like you and think they know a bunch of shit when they don't."

No, you missed MY point. However, I won't bother attempting again. However, to say giving you $5k a month (a professional or semi-professional body buidler) to train me versus me (a regular guy) paying $120 and getting just what I need, is nowhere NEAR the same thing. Your 'select clientele' and simple solutions opinion, versus people who think they know a bunch of shit when they don't, speaks volumes of your perceived self-importance and supposed authority over something far more complex than you would let anyone believe, lest it negate your supposed expert opinion. Exercise is FAR more complex than burning more calories than you take in, it's also a matter of WHAT type of calories you take in, HOW and WHEN you take them in, mental discipline and routine, attitudes, etc.

I do recognize though that this isn't a general fitness web forum, at least not what I can tell from the sig lines and pictures. So of COURSE this isn't the solution to someone wanting to get serious about mass and competitions. But that wasn't the question of the original poster. I only answered to give my 2 cents and respond to some of the other negative comments made from people who haven't even seen it (yourself included). It may be on in the traditional infomercial time slots, but so are many poker competitions. What's your point? It doesn't negate it's benefit, quality, or efficacy.

I see you're a moderator, I won't be surprised if this gets banned. And good luck in all your future endeavors.

I do find it deliciously ironic though that upon registration for membership to this forum, the first PM i get from the Admin is an advertisement for www-burnthefat-com, a new, revolutionary workout and excercise system:

"Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle": A Complete
Fat Burning System Based on The Secret Techniques of
The World's Best Bodybuilders and Fitness Models

HAHAH so deliciously ironic!

 

[DanK]

Actually... I have started this program, I've had a hard time lately sticking to a steady workout routine, and my eating has been bad as well... I don't plan to follow the diet plan that closely, I'm not a fan of measuring and counting calories etc... but I am a fan of healthy foods... I just tend to eat too much and when I'm not exercising I tend to get naughty with my diet (a coke doesn't seem like such a big deal... unless I'm doing a grueling workout and during it I'm thinking oh god, how am I going to finish this... I'll never drink coke/unhealthy food again!).

What I will say, with limitted experience with the program is the nutrition plan is basically 60% protein, 20% carbs, 20% fat (this is the fat burner plan), they have a "more balanced" plan that is less protein and more carbs and then an athletic endurance plan that is even more carbs and less protein, the fat is always 20%, the athletic endurance plan was 20% protein and 60% carbs. It's more about principles/portions than specific meal plans, there are recipes, I kind of glossed over that stuff, I might go back looking for ideas at some point but generally... from my time here and various other sites I've got a pretty good idea of what is healthy and what is not...

The exercise video's themselves are pretty serious in my opinion, they seem to focus on high reps in a short time period, the chest/back routine is a LOT of pushups, pullups, and a few other push/pull exercises, mostly body weight, but there are some provisions to make things harder/easier depending on your abilities. The exercises require a minimal amount of equipment, don't need a lot of space either. If anyone remembers the EDT workouts... the chest/back workout very much reminded me of that, this was just compound body weight movements (mostly) with a lot of variations of the same movements, instead of a high number of sets of two movements.

I like the idea that the routines do provide quite a bit of variety, you are doing something different every day of the week.

The ab ripper x thing... it's 15 minutes, and I'd say it's the kind of ab workout I'd expect a pro boxer to do... only, I'd expect a pro boxer to do it for much longer. This is done aproximately every other day, after what may be a long workout, the chest/back workout is something like 52 minutes long, tack on another 15 minutes... ouch... but I'll follow the program for now. The yoga workout is an hour and a half, though I don't think the workout schedule has you doing the ab ripper jive after yoga (I didn't look that far ahead, the workout schedule changes every 3 or 4 weeks). It's not a heavy lifting routine, but you don't have to stick with light weights by any means, you use a weight that's appropriate for you, if you can only do the work with the pink dumbells, use those... if you have a set of 45's you'd prefer... use those, though I don't expect to see a whole lot of use of weights (again, I've only just begun).

I borrowed my set of DVD's... from a friend... on the internet... anonymously... and I'd say that for the typical person in this forum, the purchase price is not worth it, but for someone who lacks any equipment, it's probably worth while. As I understand it, it comes with some bands and other things that would be useful for someone lacking weights and other tools. I think the program itself is no joke and likely to be effective for anyone who is motivated enough to do it. I also expect despite any marketting push/before and after results that get posted on the net... most of the people who try the program will follow the pattern of new years resolutioners... It's not a body building program, it's a fitness program, I think if followed strictly (the diet and exercise) a person can't help but get ripped, muscle growth... probably only for the untrained.

Just thought I'd give my opinion since everyone else who had a favorable response was a newb poster, and most of the vets here haven't actually seen any of the materials, and really, for most of the vets, this kind of program is not something they'd personally have any interest in (it's fitness, not body building, just consider the many arguements on if cardio is worth while that happen now and then).

 

[Vixx]

DanK,

The diet sucks, but I love to eat. The hardest part for me was cutting the diet, which is one reason I like P90X, is it burns a ton o'calories for me, which lets me eat more like I want to, just not in the quantities I used to.

There's no Ab Ripper after Yoga, Kenpo, Core, or Stretch. Only do Ab Ripper on a "weight day" as it were. Some things that I've done that REALLY increased the intensity of the workout without adding much time:

• Plyo with 2-4lb ankle weights, securely velcro'd heh
• Do Kenpo and Core Synergistics with 2-3lb arm weights and 2-4lb leg weights
• Do 30 reps on Ab Ripper in the same time they do 25 (+5 to each routine)

They give you ways in each video, esp in the Phase 2 videos to add difficulty. Do those and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Yoga X is actually the hardest for me since it's so damned long and I just can't do some of the poses/postures they do. But I can do the entire thing now. I also do early morning workouts (either 45min of Yoga or X Stretch, love love love X Stretch) in addition to my evening standard P90X routines, which has REALLY ramped up the progress I have seen in the last few months on my second round.

You're right, it's not a weight lifting/mass building kind of workout, which is why it's likely not very popular here. But it's effective for what it claims to do. I've added inches to arms, chest and back, legs, etc, but not in the 'body builder' classic type of fashion, just slowly eroding my BF% and BMI. But it works, and works well, and I don't need alot of gear or space to do it.

Good luck! Also, if you google for 'Excel Workout Tools P90X', it's a series of spread sheets that you enter your weights and reps in to and it automatically graphs it all out. It's only $10 and you get a TON of other stuff with it (shake and bar recipes, some fitness guides, etc). An INSANE amount of detail and info to record, would be easy to modify into a custom workout sheet. I won't post the link, lest I seem like a shill, but the workout sheets for me are great, as I usually want or need to record more info than on the P90X worksheets.

 

[Built]

Vixx, what, specifically, are your long term goals?

Out of curiosity, how old are you, and what condition were you in when you started?

 

[P-funk]

"any fool can make another fool tired."


proper training is more than that.

patrick

 

[Hench]

Heh, got an email with replies...interesting. Merkaba:

"The point is that you lost weight because youre on the road half of your life and you needed to get off your damn ass..and you created a negative calorie balance. You didnt need to exercise to do that though, as the tv and mags would have you believe. You felt better because you got off of your ass. Anything done with enough intensity and nutrition will build mass. Ok you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts that are ambiguous to those who don't know the biological paths that lead them to their supposed goals."

Yes, and *for me* I like the Videos because they are guided, and consistent when I am on the road. I don't go to one gym and get a gal who has X way of doing things in California, and then get to DC and get a different guy with Y way of doing things. I did that for years, and like using P90X much better. Your attempt to seem intelligent with comments like "you see some of us know the simple ways to explain concepts" belies the fact that you responded with derision and information that wasn't asked for from the original poster.

"And youre damn right I wouldnt train for that amount, have you ever heard of "making a point" ??? The point is that you can find a myriad of ways to waste money, and i can put that dvd in and show and anatomically prove quite a few reasons why you should be doing something else. And yea some people have 120 to "toss" at it and many have hundreds more. Would you give me 5 grand a month to train you? To some of us you might as well be doing the same thing. I only train select clients here and there part time because too many are like you and think they know a bunch of shit when they don't."

No, you missed MY point. However, I won't bother attempting again. However, to say giving you $5k a month (a professional or semi-professional body buidler) to train me versus me (a regular guy) paying $120 and getting just what I need, is nowhere NEAR the same thing. Your 'select clientele' and simple solutions opinion, versus people who think they know a bunch of shit when they don't, speaks volumes of your perceived self-importance and supposed authority over something far more complex than you would let anyone believe, lest it negate your supposed expert opinion. Exercise is FAR more complex than burning more calories than you take in, it's also a matter of WHAT type of calories you take in, HOW and WHEN you take them in, mental discipline and routine, attitudes, etc.

I do recognize though that this isn't a general fitness web forum, at least not what I can tell from the sig lines and pictures. So of COURSE this isn't the solution to someone wanting to get serious about mass and competitions. But that wasn't the question of the original poster. I only answered to give my 2 cents and respond to some of the other negative comments made from people who haven't even seen it (yourself included). It may be on in the traditional infomercial time slots, but so are many poker competitions. What's your point? It doesn't negate it's benefit, quality, or efficacy.

I see you're a moderator, I won't be surprised if this gets banned. And good luck in all your future endeavors.

I do find it deliciously ironic though that upon registration for membership to this forum, the first PM i get from the Admin is an advertisement for www-burnthefat-com, a new, revolutionary workout and excercise system:

"Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle": A Complete
Fat Burning System Based on The Secret Techniques of
The World's Best Bodybuilders and Fitness Models

HAHAH so deliciously ironic!

You are a very ignorant person. Merk is an educated natural weight lifter who has put in the time to look the way he does and deserves more respect than that, but he doesnt need me to fight his battles for him.

Do some reading around the boards, read the stickies and both P-funks and Builts blog, youll soon see the flaws of p90.

Edit: I swear I just read the word ''Ab ripper'' in one of these posts. Think I might give this one a try...

 

[Built]

The problem with these types of workouts, where you train your ass off - literally - and lose weight is that because you don't really learn how to eat, you gain it back.

I know, because over a twenty year period I overtrained and incorrectly dieted my way from 140 lbs to 170 lbs.

It sucked.

It was a LOT of work, and it totally sucked.

My take on this workout is that it's great short-term conditioning if you're fairly close to your target weight to begin with. In other words, if I did it NOW I'd be fine. I'd lose some muscle, but I'd be fine.

Thing is, that's not who this type of workout plan attracts. It's like running programmes - people take them on to lose weight (hand goes up), when the truth of the matter is that you'd be better off losing the weight, THEN taking up running. Running, P90X, any kind of rigorous activity is best done by those who are not overweight. You need to eat to recover well, and the pounding of all that extra weight does NOT do a body good. Compound that with eating at a deficit (if you're losing weight, no matter HOW you're eating, you're eating at a deficit), you've got a recipe for overtraining injuries and burnout.

Doubt me? I don't blame you. But I'll ask you this: how many people do you know who have lost 30+ pounds and kept it off for more than a year?

Because you're reading a post written by someone who lost more than 30 lbs since 2001 and kept it off.

And I sure as shit didn't exercise it off. Not this time.

Believe me, I understand. Being fat sucks - the health problems that fall out of it are far-reaching and can be devastating. You are to be commended for trying to get a handle on it.

We're here when you need your next approach. The one that's forever.

Good luck with your goals.

 

[Vixx]

Moon, my "ignorace" (as you call it) notwithstanding, I respond in kind to the tone put on me. A person can criticize anything he or she wants so long as it's rooted in logic and knowledge. Merkaba hasn't even seen the videos and yet he's absolutely sure they're a waste. I never once questioned his work ethic or his accomplishments, I am only criticizing his tone and "ignorance" related to the program since he himself said he's never seen it, he just disregards it off hand because he saw it on an infomercial. The "irony" I pointed out is that in the membership response to this very forum, a forum Merkaba is a moderator of, I was pitched another "infomercial program" offered by this magazine/forum. Notice *I* didn't criticize it because I've never seen it, but I can certainly point out the pot calling the kettle black.

And I looked at his pictures. Very impressive. But if he or others here want to be treated with respect, as you put it, they should afford others the same courtesy, regardless if they are a n00b or not to this forum. My lack of posting numbers here has nothing to do with my knowledge of fitness or excercise.

Note I am being respectful to you because you were respectful to me. OTOH, comments like P-Funk's are just asinine. I can find quotes from Tennyson to Chris Rock insulting someone, that doesn't mean they deserve respect for being rude or obnoxious. I'm old enough and comfortable enough to stand on my own without giving people respect who haven't earned it and don't afford it to others.

Built, I'm 35, 6'2" and am currently around 210lbs and have been there for about a month now. In high-school played football and soccer. In my 20's I was a competitive mountain biker (semi-pro) and windsurfer and weighed around 195. I have two degrees (physics and biology) and understand nutrition, but growing up in Oklahoma and having lots of bad food to choose from, made it easy to eat damn near anything I wanted. I got full pretty easy though and had 5-6 small, high protein meals a day. I also did the usual recommended supplemental additions to the diets, didn't drink beer (much) and never smoked. In my early 30's, a combination of bad bike wreck with a reconstructed shoulder and a subsequent genetic gastro-intestinal problem resulted in a few years of downtime. Once rehabbed, had gained 30 lbs and lost most of my physical stamina.

Once I hit 245 and needed bigger than 36" pants (heh) I got serious. However my job had me on the road ALOT. I spent around $100-150 a month either buying national memberships or paying weekly dues and was a PITA to find a club near the hotel, if there was one at all, workout, etc. Finally a friend of mine, a nurse at one of the local hospitals, told me about P90X, as they used the X Stretch and Cardio X for some of their returning vets from Iraq for rehab (actually started because one of the "models" in the video series is a lower leg amputee and does the program, so it spread through the VA rehab facilities in the area). So I bought it thinking "Even if I use some of them on the road in place of my Cardio in a club somewhere, it's not a total waste. And worst case I Ebay it and only loose $20.

It's almost a year now, and the first 3 months I dropped from 245 to 210. over the last 7-8 months I've fluctuated between 205 and 215, but am steady now, as I now do my own modified program that's a mix between the original program and the 'Lean' program. My diet is mostly fruits and vegetables with lean meats like turkey and chicken (turkey chili is a core staple heh), but one meal every couple of days is whatever I want (which is usually pizza, burger, etc, not like a box of Malomars or Ding Dongs). It's a good compromise *for me* and seems to have stabilized my weight

My long-term goals are now increasing my flexibility while slowly building strength. I'm adding approx 3-5 lbs to most of my workouts every 3-4 weeks now and am to the point now that I need to buy a new rack and dumbells for the house (55-70lbs) for pants and rows mostly. I don't want to be ripped or big like most of you here, but I'd like to think I'm defined OK enough to go shirtless and not feel bad. So *for me* I've made out of it what I need, configured the 'diet' to work for me. The program isn't a bad program, and there's a broad volume of knowledge in the books that say exactly what you said above. But if you just follow it blindly, hit your target, and then stop, then yea that's bad.

My *ONLY* point is, in this WHOLE rant, is that the P90X program and videos aren't bad in and of themselves, anymore than ANY program that's not used properly or followed properly is 'bad'. One of my pet peeves though are people who have never seen a thing, and take it upon themselves to deride ANYONE who argues in favor of that thing, when they have no direct knowledge of it, other than they don't like it or don't think it's good (which is just a totally flawed philosophy). Then "I'M being disrespectful" for not just cowing over in the aura of their greatness.

/rant off

edit: I can't spell...hands are tired after Plyo

 

[Built]

Vixx, I'm glad you found something that's working for you.

You are young (really, you are), male, and a former athlete. It is not at all surprising to me that you are able to dedicate yourself to a plan of action that you can undertake at home and on the road, and your dedication to improving your lifestyle is laudable.

I have noted my objection to a workout plan that relies upon sustaining high levels of activity, but to be fair, as a female, this is because this type of training tends to overstimulate my appetite. (This is supported by research out of the U of Ottawa from 2004, should you care to google it). In males, this is less of a concern - and of course males have more testosterone to protect lean mass. Males are also able to create a higher caloric deficit through training, and of course, six tiny meals for a woman is downright miserable - we often diet better by ditching breakfast and concentrating what little food we eat into three or four larger meals later in the day.

I remain concerned about plyometric training for anyone who is overweight, but that's my age and my injuries showing. I had to find a way to train and to eat that involved less work - my old body cannot take this much sustained activity.

As a modality, I can see that you find this helpful. And to be fair, I am unfamiliar with the timeline of this setup. If you don't mind, would you be able to describe how the training is periodized through the year?

 

[DanK]

P-Funk: You haven't personally seen the program materials, you can dislike it all you want, but your opinion is hardly an educated one unless that has changed.

Built: To be fair, there is some focus on diet in the videos, though the bulk of it seems to be in the manuals, I skimmed it but what I did read was down to earth... the documentation is pretty reasonable in covering a lot of what if's such as if you do the program but not the diet, etc, as far as the results you are likely to achieve, I don't recall seeing anything about doing the diet and blowing off the program, since the core of the program is fitness, which diet alone won't give you, but someone *could* do the diet alone and lose weight I'm sure, it's pretty much a basic diet, portion control along with getting a decent breakdown of macronutrients. As for overweight people doing these videos... it depends on how overweight I guess and their level of fitness, if you give it what you got, how hard the workout is to follow depends on your own ability/dedication, the more in shape you are, the more intense the workout should become on it's own (by simply being able to do more reps in a shorter time period/less time laying on the ground panting trying to catch your breath etc). The program does discourage people from using this program if they aren't already in decent shape, of course they do sell other products that are less "EXTREME" that will get you into the kind of fitness shape you need to be to complete this program... they probably don't tell you this until after you have the product though, but hey, that's marketting for ya. P90X is not an entry level program.

Vixx: I'm strongly against the use of ankle weights, particularly with something like plyometrics, from what I've read it adds a lot of risk of injury, for only a little benefit, I believe there are torso weights that a person could use and I don't think they'd have the same risks of injury since the weight is more centered to your core. Also... the plyometrics routine is too much for me right now, I'd say I only did about 70% of the workout (I went to the end, just stopped many of the exercises before the video did... as well as some exercises were totally new to me and so I spent a part of the time getting the motions down). Maybe next week or the week after I'll give myself a nice gold star for making it through the whole workout in style.

As for myself... I started exercising about 8 years ago, I started at 287 with a long term goal of 220, I didn't want to diet and focused on working out to lose weight, despite not dieting I did manage to lose a bit of weight, but it was a SLOW process, I think I got as low as 245 over a 2 or 3 year period, switched jobs and started to gain it back, hit 265 and got serious on my diet, and got down to 203 about 2 or 3 years ago, I've crept back up to 225 a few times since then and every so often I get back into a routine, but as I said before haven't been very consistant, but I can still claim a solid 60 lbs of weight loss, kept off for well over a year, that hardly qualifies me as an expert, but let's just say I've got some experience.

For periodization, here is the basic p90x workout calendar, without the accompanying videos it's probably hard to get a handle on what is involved though. http://home.hiwaay.net/~galaxy/P90X/p90x_calendar.pdf
3 weeks of grueling workouts, and 1 week of what is presumably going to make you sweat a little, but probably not grueling by any means (I don't know, I haven't done a rest week yet). Like I said before, it's got that ab ripper jive basically every other day, I know many people are against hitting abs so often, and I tend to agree, there aren't any weighted exercises in the ab workout though.

 

[OuiSwim]

I have to agree, for me p90x worked because I'm not good at designing my own intense workout or diet. It's easier to act like a sheep and just follow what they do. baaaah.

 

[Built]

DanK, you said yourself that until you got the diet down, you didn't move very fast into weight loss - and you have a tendency to backslide.

I laud your sustained 60-lb loss. That is a HUGE accomplishment and you have almost certainly extended your life by doing this.

Good catch on the ankle-weights; you're absolutely correct, they're a terrible way to train - all that torque on your joints, and in a most unnatural application - you're just ASKING for injury.

3 weeks of gruelling, one week backoff. Got it.

I am SO WAYYYY TOO LAZY to train that way LOL! Power to you if you can keep this going for as long as I've kept my programme going - which, so far, is almost eight years - and my weight only creeps up when I want it to. I always weigh exactly what I want, and I can't even begin to tell you what a profound comfort that is to me.

Cheers.

 

[Vixx]

On the plyo, I have to admit I don't jump like they do. I come 1-2 inches off the floor to keep knee impact to a minimum. I also use some very soft and cushiony shoes. Think less jumper, lower extensions, Pam-the-Blam type of workout (if you've seen it, you'll know what that corny stuff is about)

I honestly noticed the wrist and ankle weights on Kenpo than in Plyo, which I actually started to add more resistance to the punches and kicks. But I do notice a 5-10bpm increase in my average heart rates on both workouts with the weights. But you're right, a weight vest would be a much better option, will check that out next time I get to the store.

Built, you're right, I will likely not be doing Plyo much longer, as it is now I do it once every other week in my modified workout. But I can say when I started a year ago, I could jump and just touch the rim, now I can easily grab it with my hand and hang, but my vertical leap has improved only marginally since the first round of P90X, so in that regard I don't think it's doing me much good anymore, I just do it because it's what's on my list.

If I ever found a video series (like OuiSwim said) that takes most of the mental work out for me, I'd do it. I've branched into more yoga series types of Videos as I find that is as good of a workout as some of my more strenuous exercises in P90X.

Anyhoo, at some point, I may switch and go to more cardio with less weights, or I may continue with what I'm doing since I have consistently been putting on a steady amount of bulk in my muscles over the last 3 months as I've been increasing weights. But I won't likely ever get, or go, to the point where I start having to really think about and analyze my programs to maximize efficiency and gains on specific muscle groups.

I am also buying the Tony Horton One-on-One series at the end of my year. Those look to be more advanced and specific to certain areas than the more general and broad P90X. Since I've been coming here regularly, I may hang out and let people know how they are once I start.

 

[Built]

Hang on. How can you be adding bulk - you're losing weight.

You can get stronger without putting on muscle. Be very careful with this distinction.

I would not recommend doing MORE cardio. The training you are doing is "iron cardio" - if anything, I'd dial it back in favour of one or two "heavy" lifting workouts a week.

Used in conjunction with low-rep training, I can see the utility of the type of training you're doing. I do complexes for example, as part of my own training.

 

[Vixx]

Bulk likely isn't the right word, better definition, etc...whatever that would be.

Will definitely think about doing more heavy lifting days in place of cardio. I just want to get back into biking and right now, I'm only good for 30-40 miles on the road at 18mp avg or 10-15 miles on the mountain bike at 130-140bpm hr.

This is usually the point where I get involved in something and it gets more and more complex heh. Thanks for the advice Built!

 

[Built]

You are most welcome.

My husband is a mountain biker and he finds the heavy lifting really complements the endurance work he does on the bike. He backs off of the lifting during the season (we're in Vancouver - God's country among mountain bikers), just a few low-rep sessions while he's riding 4-5 days a week, and a bit more volume in the off-season.

He says he really notices the extra upper body strength the lifting has afforded him, and the heavy squats and deads keep his legs strong for the hills.

 

[jmorrison]

My *ONLY* point is, in this WHOLE rant, is that the P90X program and videos aren't bad in and of themselves, anymore than ANY program that's not used properly or followed properly is 'bad'. One of my pet peeves though are people who have never seen a thing, and take it upon themselves to deride ANYONE who argues in favor of that thing, when they have no direct knowledge of it, other than they don't like it or don't think it's good (which is just a totally flawed philosophy). Then "I'M being disrespectful" for not just cowing over in the aura of their greatness.

/rant off

His whole point is the same as yours. And his pet peeve is people marketing a product that the average Joe does not need.

He isn't saying P90x is junk. He is saying that P90x is basically giving information for high dollar amounts, that you can get easily for free from any number of sources.

Take a deep breath. Calm down. Read his posts. Then stop bashing your face into the keyboard and try to understand what he is saying.

 

[Merkaba]

His whole point is the same as yours. And his pet peeve is people marketing a product that the average Joe does not need.

He isn't saying P90x is junk. He is saying that P90x is basically giving information for high dollar amounts, that you can get easily for free from any number of sources.

Take a deep breath. Calm down. Read his posts. Then stop bashing your face into the keyboard and try to understand what he is saying.

Thank you.

And i have seen the vids. Not all of them, but enough to know. hell if you want to use p90 or tae bo or whatever then do it. And as I say, what is the key word they pretty much legally have to use? "system" ....which is not the dvd but also you watching your diet. Which is the biggest key. If you think you can "ab lounge" 10 inches off your waiste then go ahead, but its the ab lounge system that gets it done. And that is not eating to gain fat. Period. As I stated before, buy all the dvds you want and workout to what you want to I could care less. My point is that its not necessary. I'll make a video of me doing jump rope and jumping jacks and sell it to you if you like! As long as you watch your intake my Jumping-Jack-Off Program works!

 

[tucker01]

Thank you.

And i have seen the vids. Not all of them, but enough to know. hell if you want to use p90 or tae bo or whatever then do it. And as I say, what is the key word they pretty much legally have to use? "system" ....which is not the dvd but also you watching your diet. Which is the biggest key. If you think you can "ab lounge" 10 inches off your waiste then go ahead, but its the ab lounge system that gets it done. And that is not eating to gain fat. Period. As I stated before, buy all the dvds you want and workout to what you want to I could care less. My point is that its not necessary. I'll make a video of me doing jump rope and jumping jacks and sell it to you if you like! As long as you watch your intake my Jumping-Jack-Off Program works!

I think you mean "Jumping-Jack-Off" system

 

[T_man]

I think the P90x probably gives information and step by step guidance to people, which they are too lazy or too time restricted to come on forums like these and ask for help. It's hard sometimes when people give you workout exercises and tell you to devise your own workout especially if you do not know what you're doing, like most of the people who purchase P90x. It also gives them information about their diet which, like me before I hit these forums, didn't have a clue about. As a beginner, I probably would have bought it because sure enough it would have given me results because I was a beginner, and secondly because I didn't know what to do.

Now that I'm a bit more wise I would rather pay you guys, Merkaba, Built, Patrick etc when coming on the forums because I know you guys have much more experience and are more advanced lifters plus you have personal experience, than buy any "fitness DVD" product.

If I was fat and I was trained to run 100m in 16 sec I would be thrilled! If I continued to train and got better and better, and got down to 11 seconds, and saw someone else training another fat guy for running 100m in 16 sec, I would think he was getting ripped off because instead of me training him to run 12 sec, he's only going to run 16 sec at the end of his training. Yet even though 16 seconds won't be as good as he can get, it will be good enough for him for the moment.

Now I know to most of you wont understand that analogy because I think like an ostrich that has its head up its butt crack but hopefully someone can decipher it and get at what I'm saying.

 

[Perdido]

I wouldn't buy the program but can see why some would. There's a ton of good info here, maybe too much and it does take awhile for a newbie to absorb in a short period of time. And many people who respond with great answers to questions but there are many who just want to pop the dvd in, train and be done with it. I don't really think it makes them lazy or stupid. Maybe they just to have the interest or patience it takes to get involved and ask questions.

BTW I see your point T man.

 

[Vixx]

jmorrison, the tone of Merk's first post, and the tone of his last, are like night and day. The last one he made I completely understand. As far as 'marketing junk the average Joe does not need', that is clearly supposition on your part and makes a HUGE leap of faith as to what one person needs. *YOU* may not need it, and that's fine, but et's not pre-supposed what other's need. However, it is NOTtrue that I can go look anywhere on the internet and find a pre-made workout routine, soup to nuts, WITH 12 1-hour long DVDs showing me HOW to do them, how to MODIFY them in case I'm too weak or tired or joints are hurting, with written explanations as to what each excercise does, why you do it, along with a sheet to record everything on, INCLUDING a very informative diet plan. Someone COULD make a video of themselves jump roping and tell them to eat right and it would work, sure, but no one would buy it because they would see it for what it is (shamwow as someone put it earlier). At least this way, the workouts are ALL different, I feel like different parts of my body are worked pretty well, and I have a means to record my progress. Sure I could have done it by myself, but it would have taken HOURS. And my time is worth alot to me. I do find it incredibly shallow though to call $120 for everything a 'high dollar amount' when many of the supplements many here take (from what I've read on the forums) cost drastically more and are regularly occurring costs whereas buying the DVDs and books are a one-time fee.

Rahaas and T-Man hit the nail on the head. It's NOT for those of you who are 'body building', who have spent years in the Gym and know a great deal about the sport and the art. And I'm not taking away from that in ANY way the value and knowledge you have here. However, to just write off anything wholesale without understanding the people it's made for, without having seen or done the workouts, and when making statements that are inconsistent and just flat wrong, is disingenuous. That is my point. And calling people 'stupid' who buy it, or that the people that use it are 'too lazy to do their own research', does little to garner 'respect' for the person making those comments, regardless of how knowledgeable they are.

 

[Built]

vixx, I think we've all moved on from that tone, but to defend it just a bit, I don't think it was truly directed at you. You were just in the line of fire.

Most of us in physical culture are very, very tired of the nonsense that is foisted upon frustrated "ordinary people" looking to drop weight, largely because many of us STARTED in this lifestyle through the desire to drop weight. We've been through it ourselves - I can tell you that I went through it, from my early twenties to my late thirties, kept trying to exercise it off, REALLY didn't understand diet, and never understood why it wasn't working. It caused my soul - and my body - a lot of harm.

In any case, please stick around. Experience tells me that no matter how you DROP the weight, you will KEEP it off when you really own diet and rely upon it first and foremost for long term weight control. The sooner you get away from very high levels of exercise and move toward heavy lifting and diet to serve this function, the sooner you'll enjoy the lifelong control of your fitness level, health and appearance.

My .02

Again, my congrats for your current success. Let's make sure it STAYS off.

 

[ClosingTime]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Like any intense workout I think p90 has the ability to get you in good shape. But if you want an intense workout just send me the $150 and I'll send you the workout we do at my gym for MMA training hehe.

 

[mccabe21]

What can you expect from the p90X?

If your looking to get "huge" then the P90X is not for you. The P90X is for people who want to lose a few pounds and increase their muscle mass a bit. The results will vary from the level in which you commit.

The trainer of the P90X system, Tony Horton, talks about the workouts only being half of the equation, the other half is the diet. Prior to beginning the P90X, this was something that I never wrapped my head around. So I decided to commit and have been on a 2200/day diet for the past two months. I'll spare you all the details, but each day I ingest around 180grams of protein.

The workouts have been 6 days a week and I have not missed a single one. In the 9 weeks that I have been doing it, I have lost 21 pounds and have "leaned up". I won't be posing for any muscle magazines anytime soon but I have never been this cut, even when I wrestled in high school. You can check out my pics and blog at Ironmagazine dot com (They wouldn't let me write my page in here!)

So if your looking to get off the couch and get into shape the the P90X is for you. If you are already a "workout-aholic" and are looking for something new, try the Insanity program by Beachbody. I have seen in shape grown men cry after trying to finish one of these workouts. Good luck with whatever you do!

 

[DiGiTaL]

Maybe p90 works for you but I just found out yesterday 2 of my friends did it, and they have never been so disappointed in their fitness time. I wonder what that means.

 

[Elson]

paying for readily available info is dumb.

 

[jmorrison]

I will say this. Since posting on this months ago, several guys out here on the rig have started this program. The few that stuck it out really have shown some remarkable fat loss, and are really lean now.

I stand by my original point that this isn't needed by anyone who isn't afraid to do some research, but I will say that for someone who doesn't want to do that footwork and has the dedication to follow the program...this apparently isn't a bad one to follow.

 

[plums_jp]

another P90X thread... i'm gonna be sick