Pope John Paul II RIP

[Eggs]

Maybe you should have looked for the news stories instead of the entertainment section.

Actually, that popped up when I went to the story about the Pope

 

[Little Wing]

lol you need to give the crack a rest tyrone

 

[Flex]

The majority of priests do not abuse children. So while there are priests that are abusers, MOST others do not.

Eggs, what they were doing was using samples of a population and generalizing it to describe the entire population....aka "stereotyping"

my original angst was about when people began saying rude things about him. The man just died, we can at least give him a couple days in peace before attacking his character (not that Kbm did ever). Nothing is going to change in that time, and I think that it is important to respect other people and their beliefs.

^EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!^

Whether you're catholic, buddhist or fucking alien, a great man just died. A man who dedicated his life to NOTHING but peace. Let the man R.I.P., all your perfect people who do no wrong.

 

[Eggs]

lol you need to give the crack a rest tyrone

Nothing wrong with a little crack for, ummm, medicinal purposes *looking for crack head smiley*

 

[Little Wing]

anyone actually checking out the biography link? it's amazing and will help people understand why he was so well loved. i take exception with one facet of a multi-faceted man. it does not mean i do not see the whole.

 

[Little Wing]

Nothing wrong with a little crack for, ummm, medicinal purposes *looking for crack head smiley*

i had one once, maybe i still do i'll look

 

[Eggs]

Cool, I think I've seen one somewhere

 

[Little Wing]

 

[Eggs]

Ahh, thats the ticket. Thanks.

 

[Little Wing]

you're welcome. more in the smiley thread.

 

[kbm8795]

Whether something happens here or abroad does not in any way indicate that the Pope knows about it, or that he can have any direct impact on it.


The majority of priests do not abuse children. So while there are priests that are abusers, there are many others that are not. I personally believe that priests should be allowed to have families, and that will have the greatest impact on lowering child molestation. That isnt something that you change overnight though, certainly not in something so entrenched as the priesthood. I dont disagree that the number of priests is in a decline, but I would attribute that as much to the modern man as to anything else.

We honestly have no idea about the numbers, except there are now over 1,000 filed reports in the United States alone. And I do agree that the Church could address that celibacy issue for both gay and/or straight priests, but then I'm not a Catholic so this isn't my religious doctrine to change.

And to that I dont disagree with anything... and in many ways that was what my original angst was about when people began saying rude things about him. The man just died, we can at least give him a couple days in peace before attacking his character (not that Kbm did ever). Nothing is going to change in that time, and I think that it is important to respect other people and their beliefs.

Thank you. I did not attack his character, nor think it is something necessary to do now. I might not like the nature of some of his positions or how they were expressed, but this isn't the time to take away from those who were warmed by his manner over those years. Despite whatever human flaws any leader has, he knew the horror of war and was relentless about campaigning for peace.

I think the Pope took over the Catholic Church in troubled times, and he was doing a great job, but with the tremendous problems that suddenly arose from these scandals.

We'll see how the next one tackles troubled times.

 

[MTN WARRIOR]

hmmm repeatedly relocate priests who molest not one but dozens and dozens of boys. put the same families that come faithfully into the church to worship in jeopardy. that's just not the answer and when it was proved undeniably time and time again that these priests only found fresh victims once relocated relocating the offending priest was still standard procedure. what if your son was some priests fresh start in a new town? then you found out he was known to have molested close to 100 boys total in 3 different churches he was sent to? make no mistake good man or not, worthy of our pity or not, mentally sound at the end or not this man contributed to the continuing molestation and rape of many children. i understand his position making his ability to act difficult but put these men where they cannot continue to do harm. how many people here have ever listened to a small child tell you they were the victim of such a man? i have but i still cannot fathom what i would have felt like had it been my child and certainly not the fault of my church.

Yeah, and this is the Popes fault? I had respect for you until you said this, dumbass. Just like, you as a woman are responsible for all the whores walking the streets. I hate people who cant make rational, non-generalized statements blaming a specific problem on one person. People all over the world have been molested, raped and murdered over the last 28 years, is the Pope at fault for all of that. Someone in my town choked on a juju fruit at the movies last week. I'm suing the guy who invented candy. Actually, the guy who invented movies, no wait, the man who invented the dumb bitch who made that statement. Come back to reality.

 

[crazy_enough]

Yeah, and this is the Popes fault? I had respect for you until you said this, dumbass. Just like, you as a woman are responsible for all the whores walking the streets. I hate people who cant make rational, non-generalized statements blaming a specific problem on one person. People all over the world have been molested, raped and murdered over the last 28 years, is the Pope at fault for all of that. Someone in my town choked on a juju fruit at the movies last week. I'm suing the guy who invented candy. Actually, the guy who invented movies, no wait, the man who invented the dumb bitch who made that statement. Come back to reality.

I think her point is that JPII was made aware of the issue, had his say, could have "helped" in possibly "resolving" it, making a difference, but chose to act like it wasnt happening, protecting these assholes, instead providing new victims to these predators with each relocation of abusive priests...

Perhaps I misunderstood her post, but what I got from it was not a blame for everything that is wrong with our society, but for serious mistakes that were made.

 

[Little Wing]

Yeah, and this is the Popes fault? I had respect for you until you said this, dumbass. Just like, you as a woman are responsible for all the whores walking the streets. I hate people who cant make rational, non-generalized statements blaming a specific problem on one person. People all over the world have been molested, raped and murdered over the last 28 years, is the Pope at fault for all of that. Someone in my town choked on a juju fruit at the movies last week. I'm suing the guy who invented candy. Actually, the guy who invented movies, no wait, the man who invented the dumb bitch who made that statement. Come back to reality.

have a little trouble reading? he was pope for over 20 years and when do you remember the media becoming swamped with molesting priest stories? i am sure his decisions were complicated by more than i will ever fully understand but for many years after this scandle broke the standard in dealing with these men was still simply to move them and if more victims came forward where they were moved to they were merely moved again and again. these men had victims numbering over 200 at times in as many as 5 states. do you need someone to explain to you that all the men who approved of that policy and had the power to change it but failed to do so for whatever reason did indeed contribute to more children being abused? it is something any 3rd grader can grasp. like i said he personally may have wished these men dead we don't know but he could have done more and he could have done it sooner. read.

 

[maniclion]

Hypocrites who profess to love all, and yet sit in judgement.

I hear you on that, he should have known that he is not worthy of passing judgement on anyone.

 

[bio-chem]

I hear you on that, he should have known that he is not worthy of passing judgement on anyone.

this is a retarded statement because are you are now passing judgement in turn. are you so worthy? the fact is worthy or not we are required to pass judgement everyday on people and issues. you are in effect judgeing the judge because he has a different opinion than you. that doesnt bother me so much, but you saying he shouldnt have judged at all makes you a hypocrite. and the fact is whether you agree with his beliefs or not he lived his beliefs, something not many of us can say out here.

 

[maniclion]

Pope John Paul II was a good man, dedicated his life to being a humble servant of God and tauting peace. He scored much props when he spoke out against the child presidents preemptive war in Iraq. John Paul II stated before the 2003 war that this war would be a defeat for humanity which could not be morally or legally justified.

We can't condemn him for falling into the unjust ruts of his beliefs, such as persecuting homosexuals, the ruts been there for centuries and history shows us the Catholic church is the hardest head on the spiritual block. We can hold him up to his inaction against pederast priests, he should have let legal action take precedent, yet he acted as if there were some white frock of silence amongst clergymen or something and that his kind were above the law.



On another note, why do the Popes wear Yamakas(yarmulkes)?

 

[bio-chem]

i dont believe for one second he persecuted homosexuals. homosexuality is a sin, the same as adultery and pre-marital sex. never once in judeao-christian history even in non biblical writings has it been shown this was an acceptable practice in the eyes of God. he showed great character for not bending beliefs when political winds do not favor strong stands on morality. nor do i believe he showed inaction against the priests. to lay the fault of that tragedy at his feet is ridiculous, though it is to be expected as he is the head and most public figure of that church. ive never seen any evidence that he condoned or helped the practice of shielding those priests. if there is id like to see it.

 

[Minotaur]

i dont believe for one second he persecuted homosexuals. homosexuality is a sin, the same as adultery and pre-marital sex. never once in judeao-christian history even in non biblical writings has it been shown this was an acceptable practice in the eyes of God.

That's all well and good from a religious perspective. Believe what you want; believe that it's a sin to not dance naked on a hilltop during a full moon while waving feathers, as required by your particular religion. But a religious leader has no business dictating the civil policies and laws of sovereign nations. Yes, he did that. He told members of the European Union they were wrong for allowing same-sex marriages (those that do). He went too far, especially considering that many of the citizens of those countries are not Catholic (Denmark for example), and not even Christian. When the spiritual leader of over 1 billion people speaks against a subject or a group of people, that's tantamount to persecution.

However, in my attempt to keep an open and forgiving mind, I have to realize that when he spoke of homosexuality and same sex marriage being part of an ideology of evil, he was speaking from an ignorance of what it is to be homosexual. As does anyone else who is not homosexual and spouts off about what it is and is not. Those spoutings come from ignorance. Reading about it and listening to Pastor Billy Bob Ray Don Hargass or Father Fafadone does not count towards making one knowledgeable on homosexuality. Walk in a gay person's shoes and live his or her life, and then maybe you might be qualified to speak on the subject.

 

[Eggs]

Walk in a gay person's shoes and live his or her life, and then maybe you might be qualified to speak on the subject.

Why dont you walk in a religious leaders shoes for a day, then maybe you'll be qualified to speak on the subject. Since you have proven that you cannot in any way participate in this, because you are not qualified to speak on the subject, please start all the rest of your posts by stating:

"I dont know shit, I just want you to think I do".

As to the rest of your post, I dont really feel the need to address it, because you are in over your head speaking about what a religious leader should and should not do, and being that you are certainly not qualified for it, it would merely be a waste of my breath.

 

[Minotaur]

Why dont you walk in a religious leaders shoes for a day, then maybe you'll be qualified to speak on the subject. Since you have proven that you cannot in any way participate in this, because you are not qualified to speak on the subject, please start all the rest of your posts by stating:

"I dont know shit, I just want you to think I do".

As to the rest of your post, I dont really feel the need to address it, because you are in over your head speaking about what a religious leader should and should not do, and being that you are certainly not qualified for it, it would merely be a waste of my breath.

Like you have something worthwhile to say.

 

[bio-chem]

Like you have something worthwhile to say.

i thought his post made a lot of sense. do i agree, only partly, but it was the appropriate response to your post. we all make judgements whether we have had the same experiences or not. its a part of life to decide based on the experiences we have had for ourselves. if new experiences change our point of view thats great, but to not make an opinion at all until we have walked in someones shoes is a nice thought, though impractical.

and if john paul wants to speak out on civil issues thats perfectly fine. the civil leaders can take his words for what they are worth. its not like he said do this or else...

 

[bio-chem]

When the spiritual leader of over 1 billion people speaks against a subject or a group of people, that's tantamount to persecution.

However, in my attempt to keep an open and forgiving mind, I have to realize that when he spoke of homosexuality and same sex marriage being part of an ideology of evil, he was speaking from an ignorance of what it is to be homosexual. As does anyone else who is not homosexual and spouts off about what it is and is not. Those spoutings come from ignorance.

or maybe he understands homosexuality better than you can. he sees it for what it is and you are lying to yourself in order to rationalize your feelings of guilt.

when a religious leader speaks out against a sin it is not persecution. he didnt say "expell all of your fags from from your cities" that would have been persecution. research persecution a little before you speak of it.

 

[Eggs]

Like you have something worthwhile to say.

I really dont, but I am having fun criticizing your logic

 

[SPIKE1257]

Is this some weird shit or what ? Some officials in Krakow, where Pope John Paul II was archbishop, hope his heart can be buried in their cathedral alongside Poland's medieval kings and saints, but a senior cardinal cast doubt on that happening.
``We would like the heart of the greatest Krakovian and the greatest Pole to rest at Wawel (Cathedral),'' Mayor Jacek Majchrowski was quoted as saying Monday by the Gazeta Wyborcza daily. ``But the rules are set by the church and we will respect them.''
The heart of another great Pole, composer Frederic Chopin, rests in an urn in Warsaw's Holy Cross Church, although the rest of his body is buried at Paris's Pere Lachaise Cemetery.
The College of Cardinals said Monday the pope's remains would be interred in the grotto of St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican. Asked if this ruled out sending his heart to Poland, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls did not directly reply, saying he was merely transmitting information on decisions taken by the cardinals.

 

[Little Wing]

what did he want?

 

[maniclion]

In my world all men(and women) are created equally, why must religions hold others higher on a pedestal than others?

 

[bio-chem]

In my world all men(and women) are created equally, why must religions hold others higher on a pedestal than others?

exactly what are you refering to with this?

 

[Eggs]

The heart thing is a bit strange, though pretty understandable. The Pope was one of the best things to happen to Poland in recent years, and he definitel left his touch on them. They know they cant have his whole body, so they are hoping that they can have a piece of him back in his homeland. A very symbolic piece.

I dont really think they should let Poland have his heart, but they should definitely give them something of his. Preferably not something that was attached to him once.

 

[bio-chem]

its a fairly common practice if i understand right. they have different body parts of important people all over the place in different cathedrals. heads, fingers, arms, major organs