Pope Urges Compassion, Then Denounces Abortion

[bio-chem]

The reality is that we apply words to objects and ideas. We then define those words so that we can communicate. Say what you want, but you are wrong. The law says you are wrong. Webster says you are wrong. Abortion does not mean to kill a baby. Abortion is not a murder and a fetus isn't a baby.

So how is it if you kill a pregnant woman you can be charged with 2 murders? I like where you are going Kelju, it is important to use the proper term in order to communicate properly. However, as I've just shown the law in certain instances will define the life of an unborn child in such a way as killing it being defined as murder.

Once a fetus is viable outside the womb, I think it's around like 22 weeks or so now I have no problem defining that fetus as life, and therefore murder when it is killed. Think of the case of Dr. Kermit Gosnell who tried to make the argument that even though he was killing babies outside of the womb, it should still be considered legal abortion. In a state which has regulations and laws against late term abortions.

that is why the term abortion can be termed murder in my opinion. I will accept that it goes back to when we determine life has begun. That is the basis of this argument "when does life begin?" I feel I can make a strong case for that being when the child becomes viable outside of the womb. Something even Roe Vs Wade which legalized abortions will agree with me on.

Under that definition that i've given can you accept me calling the killing of a fetus murder, as our law does?

 

[bio-chem]

You apparently forgot we had a short pm conversation about where we lived. Maybe you moved. I could assume you enjoy jello desserts?

Who doesn't love Jello deserts? Mormons don't have a monopoly on that, our women are just better at making them.

 

[_LG_]

Amen to that. Mormon funerals have the best food ever

 

[IronAddict]

Like every man who has ever called himself the pope before this guy, he is just talking out of both sides of his neck..

In human development an embryo isn't a fetus and a fetus isn't a baby, just like a fetus isn't sucking on his moms teet for milk.

Once that fetus is out of the womb and sucking in air to breath and drinking moms milk for life is that a baby, and if you then took its life it would be murder.

 

[_LG_]

Abortion sucks. But it's a necessary evil.

 

[Little Wing]

1 example is natural selection, the other is coldblooded murder of an unborn infant...call it whatever you want..whatever helps you sleep at night lmao

i think many people who accept abortion do so with a heavy heart. conservative politics are for people who don't like to think things through. no abortion but no prenatal healthcare for poor women or support raising the kids or mental health care for the woman and child forced to be a family when the woman was not prepared for it and fuck you no food for you and no we don't give a fuck that you can't afford college so you have to take a job you can't pay rent or buy enough food with. so yea whatever... no abortion is a really well thought out agenda.

it's obviously not because the conservative really gives a fuck about the precious child. the other things the conservatives deny the child proves that. they just want to punish girls for having sex. may as well carry torches and be like the mob from frankentstein.

 

[Little Wing]

Like every man who has ever called himself the pope before this guy, he is just talking out of both sides of his neck..

In human development an embryo isn't a fetus and a fetus isn't a baby, just like a fetus isn't sucking on his moms teet for milk.

Once that fetus is out of the womb and sucking in air to breath and drinking moms milk for life is that a baby, and if you then took its life it would be murder.

legally if someone murders a pregnant woman they are also charged with the death of the unborn baby. Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Standard Donkey]

i think many people who accept abortion do so with a heavy heart. conservative politics are for people who don't like to think things through. no abortion but no prenatal healthcare for poor women or support raising the kids or mental health care for the woman and child forced to be a family when the woman was not prepared for it and fuck you no food for you and no we don't give a fuck that you can't afford college so you have to take a job you can't pay rent or buy enough food with. so yea whatever... no abortion is a really well thought out agenda.

it's obviously not because the conservative really gives a fuck about the precious child. the other things the conservatives deny the child proves that. they just want to punish girls for having sex. may as well carry torches and be like the mob from frankentstein.

lol no.. we conservatives just want people to be held accountable for their actions...a foreign concept these days. we don't want to have to pay to raise people's kids, nor do we want to pay for infanticide

 

[njc]

Deep down everybody knows that it's wrong. It's an excusable evil in a society full of excusable evils.

 

[Zaphod]

lol no.. we conservatives just want people to be held accountable for their actions...a foreign concept these days. we don't want to have to pay to raise people's kids, nor do we want to pay for infanticide

There are consequences for holding someone accountable for their actions. You want these children born but are unwilling to support them. Why is that?

 

[Zaphod]

Deep down everybody knows that it's wrong. It's an excusable evil in a society full of excusable evils.

It's a smokescreen. It takes attention away from what is really happening in the world.

 

[Little Wing]

lol no.. we conservatives just want people to be held accountable for their actions...a foreign concept these days. we don't want to have to pay to raise people's kids, nor do we want to pay for infanticide

well in the real world if you don't want to pay to raise unwanted kids you have to just hush and let them have their abortions. which, btw are not paid for with anyones taxes.

 

[bio-chem]

well in the real world if you don't want to pay to raise unwanted kids you have to just hush and let them have their abortions. which, btw are not paid for with anyones taxes.

Planned Parenthood is supported with tax dollars.

 

[heckler7]

I don't agree with abortion, but if the people who are supposed to love and care for the unborn child choose abortion first they should be sterilized so they don't make the same mistake again. just my opinion.

 

[OfficerFarva]

HOLY FUCK that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Think about a seed in the dirt once it has germinated but not broken out above the ground does that mean it's not growing or alive? no you just can see it... it's still growing. If cells are multiplying and or it has a heart beat it's alive dummy! if you abort it then you have comited murder. the word Abort means to stop it before it is completed, ie: KILL IT

check for yourself Abort - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

P.S. NEGGED!!!

This is by far one of the most stupid replies I've read in a while on here. You must think everyone who undergoes chemotherapy is a murderer too.

 

[KelJu]

Under that definition that i've given can you accept me calling the killing of a fetus murder, as our law does?

I am a pedantic fuck about using honest language, and our law does not call abortion, murder. Double murder wasn't created to define a fetus. The judicial branch used double murder as a way to give harsher punishments to people who kill a pregnant woman. It is good that they do that, but they are using a law in a way for which it was never intended. That is how our law works. It is convoluted and often contradicts itself. That is why cases go to the Supreme Court in order to get clarification.

I don't think anyone has challenged the double murder verdict, but new laws have come out that give some rights to a fetus such as the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act". It says that a fetus is a member of the species Homo sapiens and grants the fetus the status of unborn victim if some specific crimes are committed against the mother, but it still does not come out and state that a fetus is a person. It makes steps toward granting personhood.

Now, this is the god damn reason we need better language. What the fuck is personhood? How is personhood different from just saying an entity is a person? What sense does it make to say that a woman can kill her fetus legally, but if someone else kills her fetus, it is murder? There is no situation where a person can be legally murdered by one person, but not legally murdered by another.

The Supreme Court ruled that a fetus is not a person under the terms of the Fourteenth Amendment. Legally speaking, murder must be committed against a person. Roe vs Wade does not make distinctions between persons and people of personhood.

The language is fucked! It is fucked because people are fucking up in order to push an agenda. It is the reason these debates go on and on and on. Mother fuckers need to have the balls to say what they really stand for. If you support abortion, you are not pro-choice. You are pro-abortion. If you are against it, you are anti-abortion, not fucking pro-life. A fetus is not a person. Abortion is not murder.

A consensus would have to be reached in which we redefine murder. Everyone knows murder is wrong. However, it is highly contested over whether abortion is wrong. Trying to apply the emotional connotation of the word murder to the word abortion is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.

 

[dieseljimmy]

This is by far one of the most stupid replies I've read in a while on here. You must think everyone who undergoes chemotherapy is a murderer too.

If thats true think of all the sperm cells that have died in my hand, tissue or shower drain. I suddenly feel horrible

 

[dieseljimmy]

I am a pedantic fuck about using honest language, and our law does not call abortion, murder. Double murder wasn't created to define a fetus. The judicial branch used double murder as a way to give harsher punishments to people who kill a pregnant woman. It is good that they do that, but they are using a law in a way for which it was never intended. That is how our law works. It is convoluted and often contradicts itself. That is why cases go to the Supreme Court in order to get clarification.

I don't think anyone has challenged the double murder verdict, but new laws have come out that give some rights to a fetus such as the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act". It says that a fetus is a member of the species Homo sapiens and grants the fetus the status of unborn victim if some specific crimes are committed against the mother, but it still does not come out and state that a fetus is a person. It makes steps toward granting personhood.

Now, this is the god damn reason we need better language. What the fuck is personhood? How is personhood different from just saying an entity is a person? What sense does it make to say that a woman can kill her fetus legally, but if someone else kills her fetus, it is murder? There is no situation where a person can be legally murdered by one person, but not legally murdered by another.

The Supreme Court ruled that a fetus is not a person under the terms of the Fourteenth Amendment. Legally speaking, murder must be committed against a person. Roe vs Wade does not make distinctions between persons and people of personhood.

The language is fucked! It is fucked because people are fucking up in order to push an agenda. It is the reason these debates go on and on and on. Mother fuckers need to have the balls to say what they really stand for. If you support abortion, you are not pro-choice. You are pro-abortion. If you are against it, you are anti-abortion, not fucking pro-life. A fetus is not a person. Abortion is not murder.

A consensus would have to be reached in which we redefine murder. Everyone knows murder is wrong. However, it is highly contested over whether abortion is wrong. Trying to apply the emotional connotation of the word murder to the word abortion is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.

I agree

is it the language or the asshats that script it to law?

 

[OfficerFarva]

If thats true think of all the sperm cells that have died in my hand, tissue or shower drain. I suddenly feel horrible

You make Stalin look like a saint. Every time you busted a nut you just murdered 10s of millions of people faster than he ever could.

 

[bio-chem]

I am a pedantic fuck about using honest language, and our law does not call abortion, murderthough many of us here are arguing just for that, and feel murder is an apt description of what happens during an abortion. Double murder wasn't created to define a fetus. The judicial branch used double murder as a way to give harsher punishments to people who kill a pregnant woman. It is good that they do that, but they are using a law in a way for which it was never intended. That is how our law works. It is convoluted and often contradicts itself. That is why cases go to the Supreme Court in order to get clarification.

I don't think anyone has challenged the double murder verdict, but new laws have come out that give some rights to a fetus such as the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act". It says that a fetus is a member of the species Homo sapiens and grants the fetus the status of unborn victim if some specific crimes are committed against the mother, but it still does not come out and state that a fetus is a person. It makes steps toward granting personhood.

Now, this is the god damn reason we need better language. What the fuck is personhood? How is personhood different from just saying an entity is a person? What sense does it make to say that a woman can kill her fetus legally, but if someone else kills her fetus, it is murderI agree, hence the reason I argue a fetus deserves protection? There is no situation where a person can be legally murdered by one person, but not legally murdered by anotheroutside of capital punishment of course, after due process of law.

The Supreme Court ruled that a fetus is not a person under the terms of the Fourteenth Amendment. Legally speaking, murder must be committed against a person. Roe vs Wade does not make distinctions between persons and people of personhood.

The language is fucked! It is fucked because people are fucking up in order to push an agenda. It is the reason these debates go on and on and on. Mother fuckers need to have the balls to say what they really stand for. If you support abortion, you are not pro-choice. You are pro-abortion. If you are against it, you are anti-abortion, not fucking pro-life. A fetus is not a person. Abortion is not murder. then I am anti-abortion, and I believe a fetus is a person and deserves the protection of that status

A consensus we have many laws without a consensus, and a consensus is not often necessary for us to do something would have to be reached in which we redefine murder. Everyone knows murder is wrong. However, it is highly contested over whether abortion is wrongI think we are closer to getting a consensus on abortion being wrong, even though there are many who will still allow it while abhorring it. Trying to apply the emotional connotation of the word murder to the word abortion is intellectually dishonest I find it supremely honest actually. calling a spade a spade despite the fact that it makes people uncomfortable is part of honestyin my opinion.

No,roe vs wade does not define between a persons and people of person hood, but it does distinguish that when a fetus becomes viable outside of the womb then that fetus is due protection, and government has a responsibility to protect the fetus. again, it comes to when one argues life begins. does it begin at birth, or sometime before that? Any woman who has carried a child will tell you she feels the fetus is alive long before labor sets in.

 

[bio-chem]

LW - can you explain what it is you believe on abortion? I'm having a hard time as it seems you've gone both ways in this thread

 

[Little Wing]

Planned Parenthood is supported with tax dollars.

yes planned parenthood but even there you pay cash for your abortion.

 

[Little Wing]

LW - can you explain what it is you believe on abortion? I'm having a hard time as it seems you've gone both ways in this thread

that it should be illegal after 8 weeks not twelve and that it's tragic but something a woman should have the right to decide for herself. i believe a woman has the right to decide for herself if she wants to pass a baby out of her vagina at whatever age. it's HER body, HER future.

i think it's absofuckinglutely pathetic that the same group that says to be responsible try to deny women access to birth control too. the people that picket abortion clinics are ignorant fucks that don't know women go there to get prenatal care also. vitamins and nutritious food if she needs it for the well-being of the baby. birthing classes, parenthood classes.

your party is acting on blind hate of something it doesn't even understand. abortion is only 3% of what planned parenthood does and title x money can never be used for abortion.

Your Baby Will Thank You! - Planned Parenthood - Collier County

 

[bio-chem]

that it should be illegal after 8 weeks not twelve and that it's tragic but something a woman should have the right to decide for herself. i believe a woman has the right to decide for herself if she wants to pass a baby out of her vagina at whatever age. it's HER body, HER future.

i think it's absofuckinglutely pathetic that the same group that says to be responsible try to deny women access to birth control too. the people that picket abortion clinics are ignorant fucks that don't know women go there to get prenatal care also. vitamins and nutritious food if she needs it for the well-being of the baby. birthing classes, parenthood classes.

your party is acting on blind hate of something it doesn't even understand. abortion is only 3% of what planned parenthood does and title x money can never be used for abortion.

Your Baby Will Thank You! - Planned Parenthood - Collier County

hahah. it's funny you claim it to me my party, and go on and on about her body and her future then say it should be illegal after 8 weeks. You and I agree on this issue as far as I can tell, yet you somehow seem angry with me about it?

 

[Little Wing]

so responsibility as to being forced to be a parent because of adolescent stupidity is conservatives foot stomping riled up about good.. but like say personal responsibility as in building your factory in America, paying taxes, following this country's pollution and waste disposal laws, paying your workers at least minimum wage, giving them safe working conditions, fair hours, and gee making sure none of them are children is ok to just skip town on....

 

[Little Wing]

hahah. it's funny you claim it to me my party, and go on and on about her body and her future then say it should be illegal after 8 weeks. You and I agree on this issue as far as I can tell, yet you somehow seem angry with me about it?

no, i'm not mad at you at all. you seem sad but reasonable about it. i'm with you.

 

[Little Wing]

a lot of republicans are more old republican party middle of the road good grounded not all this crazy crap republicans we get now.

 

[Little Wing]

the 9th week is when all the nerve endings aren't just growing but connecting. i think it's more humane to do it before then and by two months you should damned well know you're pregnant. i agree with a woman's right to do it but recognize the horror it is to the unborn child.

 

[Standard Donkey]

long story short, women want to be able to whore around as much as they want without repercussions..if they get pregnant, they can just kill their babies..ahhh utopia

 

[Little Wing]

and for the record, one of the reasons i so stand by a woman's right to do it is that to many people in the USA a poor unwanted child is just a commodity or a burden. we have people saying now they aren't even worthy of them sharing their crumbs with.

and oh look who's looking for kids to adopt

Inside America's underground network for adopted children where the unwanted as young as 10 months old are advertised online and placed with strangers by parents desperate to get rid of them | Mail Online

Reuters analyzed 5,029 posts on one Yahoo group page over five years.
One adoptive mother's post from March 2012 for her 12-year-old daughter reads: 'I would have given her away to a serial killer, I was so desperate.'