Post post workout nutrition

[Built]

No, you didn't drop five pounds of lean mass. For one, you're dieting and training properly. For another, you didn't get dexa tested - averaging three shitty estimates doesn't give you one GOOD estimate, okay? I'm a statistician by education, this is my shit and I can assure you, there is no way you got a good read unless you got a dexa. Now the third point is that you're dieting and thus glycogen depleted. Glycogen shows up as muscle mass when you test, because it's in the muscle and it holds water. Carb up, and I guarantee you'll test out as leaner and more muscular on, say, a BIA/Tanita.

So what do you do? Assume you've got 140 lbs of lean mass. Trust the process, don't diet too hard, and diet down to 156 lbs. Plan to lose no more than a pound a week. You'll look great, you'll see.

 

[aad123]

Week 7

Diat the same

Waist 34" -0.25
Hips 38.5" no change
Thigh 24" +0.5
Chest 41.25" no change
Weight 173lb -1lb _ I have lost 1 stone (14lb) go me !!!

 

[aad123]

No, you didn't drop five pounds of lean mass. For one, you're dieting and training properly. For another, you didn't get dexa tested - averaging three shitty estimates doesn't give you one GOOD estimate, okay? I'm a statistician by education, this is my shit and I can assure you, there is no way you got a good read unless you got a dexa. Now the third point is that you're dieting and thus glycogen depleted. Glycogen shows up as muscle mass when you test, because it's in the muscle and it holds water. Carb up, and I guarantee you'll test out as leaner and more muscular on, say, a BIA/Tanita.

So what do you do? Assume you've got 140 lbs of lean mass. Trust the process, don't diet too hard, and diet down to 156 lbs. Plan to lose no more than a pound a week. You'll look great, you'll see.

Thanks for the feedback. I am very happy with my results so far and I will carry on as directed. Your advice has been spot on so far so I trust your judgment. I'v read some of you other threads and you know your stuff. I have come further with your help than I would have on my own. Its good to know that there are people out there who give up their free time to advise people like me, who would other wise fail to get any real results.

Many thanks to all who have posted replies.

 

[Built]

 

[aad123]

I have a question on training whilst cutting.

I know that compound lifts are best as no muscle will be gained but should I train
to failure and use drop sets and forced reps etc or should I just work to a certain
rep range ?
I currently alternate one week heavy 6-8 reps and then one week light 10-12 reps
but I always do my last set to failure and some times have a spotter help me push a few extra reps. Is this a good idea or am I wasting my time ?

 

[joboco]

At the moment I'm still lifting 6-8 heavy on all lifts. I know most people say dont train arms you wont gain, but i've put 1/4 in on my biceps. Although my weight is not dropping that much I seem to be getting harder if you know what I mean.

 

[aad123]

At the moment I'm still lifting 6-8 heavy on all lifts. I know most people say dont train arms you wont gain, but i've put 1/4 in on my biceps. Although my weight is not dropping that much I seem to be getting harder if you know what I mean.

Are you training full body ? How many exersizes are you doing ? How many sets ?
I am currently doing full body 3 times a week but I find that as I get towards the end of my workout I don't have enough energy to give my final exersize the intenserty I want to. I'm thinking of going back to a half body split.

Day 1.
Upper body horizontal push / horizontal pull / lower body push.
Day 2.
Upper body vertical push / vertical pull / lower budy pull.

I will alternate between the 2 workouts every other day. As I will only be doing 3 exersizes per workout I can go up to 3 sets per exersize. This will also cut down the length of my workouts and should reduce the risk of over training.

 

[joboco]

At the moment I'm doing.

Monday
Dead lift @ 3 x 6-8
Barbell shrugs @ 3 x 6-8
Wide grip pull ups @ 3 x 6-8
Cable pull down wide grip @ 3 x 6-8
Bent over barbell rows @ 3 x 6-8
EZ bar curls @ 3 x 6-8
Alternate hammer curls @ 3 x 6-8

Wednesday
Flat bench press @ 3 x 6-8
Incline bench press @ 3 x 6-8
Flat bench dumbbell flyer's @ 3 x 6-8
Dumbbell press @ 3 x 6-8
Lateral raisers @ 3 x 6-8
Bent over rear raisers @ 3 x 6-8
Close grip bench press @ 3 x 6-8
Tricep pull down @ 3 x 6-8

Friday
Front squat @ 3 x 6-8
Leg extensions @ 3 x 6-8
Leg curls @ 3 x 6-8
Stiff leg dead lifts @ 3 x 6-8
Standing calf raisers @ 3 x 6-8

I only have a 1 minute break between sets,

Don't know if it is relevant or not,but I too was finding this a little hard. So I started taking a protein shake with 5g creatine about 15 minutes pre workout, followed by the same immediately post workout but including 40g of oats.

The funny thing is my weights are slowly increasing, plus I have energy left over to do some sit ups post workout.

 

[Built]

I have a question on training whilst cutting.

I know that compound lifts are best as no muscle will be gained but should I train
to failure and use drop sets and forced reps etc or should I just work to a certain
rep range ?
I currently alternate one week heavy 6-8 reps and then one week light 10-12 reps
but I always do my last set to failure and some times have a spotter help me push a few extra reps. Is this a good idea or am I wasting my time ?

Failure training is an occasional bulking trick; not useful for cutting. You'll just get too trashed. When you get very lean, it might be counterproductive.

Are you training full body ? How many exersizes are you doing ? How many sets ?
I am currently doing full body 3 times a week but I find that as I get towards the end of my workout I don't have enough energy to give my final exersize the intenserty I want to. I'm thinking of going back to a half body split.

Day 1.
Upper body horizontal push / horizontal pull / lower body push.
Day 2.
Upper body vertical push / vertical pull / lower budy pull.

I will alternate between the 2 workouts every other day. As I will only be doing 3 exersizes per workout I can go up to 3 sets per exersize. This will also cut down the length of my workouts and should reduce the risk of over training.

This looks good. ^

At the moment I'm doing.

Monday
Dead lift @ 3 x 6-8
Barbell shrugs @ 3 x 6-8
Wide grip pull ups @ 3 x 6-8**consider switching to shoulder-width or narrower
Cable pull down wide grip @ 3 x 6-8**consider switching to shoulder-width or narrower
Bent over barbell rows @ 3 x 6-8
EZ bar curls @ 3 x 6-8
Alternate hammer curls @ 3 x 6-8

Wednesday
Flat bench press @ 3 x 6-8
Incline bench press @ 3 x 6-8
Flat bench dumbbell flyer's @ 3 x 6-8
Dumbbell press @ 3 x 6-8
Lateral raisers @ 3 x 6-8
Bent over rear raisers @ 3 x 6-8**what are these?
Close grip bench press @ 3 x 6-8
Tricep pull down @ 3 x 6-8

Friday
Front squat @ 3 x 6-8
Leg extensions @ 3 x 6-8
Leg curls @ 3 x 6-8
Stiff leg dead lifts @ 3 x 6-8
Standing calf raisers @ 3 x 6-8

I only have a 1 minute break between sets,**you might need longer breaks as your cut progresses.

Don't know if it is relevant or not,but I too was finding this a little hard. So I started taking a protein shake with 5g creatine about 15 minutes pre workout, followed by the same immediately post workout but including 40g of oats.

The funny thing is my weights are slowly increasing, plus I have energy left over to do some sit ups post workout.

Yep, food rocks.

 

[joboco]

Thanks for the reply Built I hope it will be of benefit to others that check this thread.

Bent over rear raisers.

Should read, bent over rear delt raisers.

All other points taken on board.

 

[aad123]

Week 8.

Weight down by 1lb again this week but measurements are still a little disappointing.

Waist 34.5" +0.5" (but I did have a large tuna salad about an hour ago).
Thigh 24" no change
Chest 41.25 no change
Hips 39" +0.5"

I have however had a good week end at the gym.

Sat
Chins 3 x 12 ( as many as poss on bar then onto lat pull down mc to finish the 12).
Mill press 3 x 12
Squats 3 x 10
Total time in gym 45 mins.

Sun
Inc bench 3 x 10
Bent row 3 x 12
Stiff leg dead lift 3 x 12
Total time in gym 50 mins, including talking training with another member who
is training for MMA. I could take him, yeah right, maybe if I snuck up on him whilst
he was benching.

 

[SuperLift]

Agree with the others bro. You seem to have a pretty good understanding, now just make the changes happen bro, GL!

 

[joboco]

Looks good at least your going in the right direction.

 

[aad123]

I need a little advise reguarding training.

For as long as I have been training I was under the impression that you had to lift untill failure in order to make progress. Like most gym users I was doing 3 sets to failure for every exersize.
If this method is not what I should be doing then how should I be training. The answer to this could be the key to muscle grothand the reason I have not been making any real progress over the last few years. I was just following what everyone else in the gym was doing but I didnt realy notice that they were not making any progress either.

Now I have my diet sorted out I need to improve my training.I know everyone is different but you guys have managed to build the bodies I am striving to achieve so any advice you have to offer will be greatfully received.

 

[aad123]

I need to vent my anger.

How can two skinny guys manage to use the squat rack for over 30 mins doing ez bar curls. Don't these people know that there are other gym members who might just want to use the rack for what it is meant to be used for "SQUATTING". Just because the support bars are at a nice height so they don't need to bend to pick the weight up doesn't mean that they can basically piss about whilst I have to weight for them to piss off, only to be informed that the gym will be closing in 10 mins.
I wonder if next time I do bench they will be using the bench to do sit ups or leg raises.
Being a true Brit I may just snap and write them a very stern letter. GRRRRRRRR!

 

[primo33333]

Casein Protein @ night would give you a slower release maybe mix whey and casein @ night. what Bill Hicks said too Carbs need to go back in your Muscle

never heard of this protein, its like whey?

 

[aad123]

never heard of this protein, its like whey?

Casein protein a slow release protein which is why its best take before bed to give you a steady release throughout the night. Whey protein is absorbed faster so is ideal post workout (mixed with maltodextrin).
If you do order some be advised that it mixes far thicker than whey so you need to double the amount of water/milk you add. The first time I mixed it I had to use a spoon to eat it. It's also a little more expensive than whey (in the uk) so some people mix it with whey.
If you google it you should find more info.

Hope this helps.

 

[joboco]

aad123 where you at in UK man.

 

[aad123]

aad123 where you at in UK man.

England - Midlands

 

[aad123]

Just read "Should You Train to Complete Muscular Failure Each Set?" by Princes.

It was just what I was looking for. The science was a little in depth but I got the message.
The point about hard gainers training harder and to failure on every set sounds just like me.
I went to the gym this evening and didn't take any of my sets to failure and I felt rather good. Even managed 2 sets of hanging leg raises and 2 sets of woodcutters, it's normally all I can manage to get myself down the stairs without falling on my ass.
I will follow this protocol for the rest of my cut. It may take a little while to get into the feel of it but I will stick with it. I'v been going to failure for a long time and it hasn't worked out too well so time to try something different. Body building is all about learning what works for you, its a shame it took so long to learn that.

 

[aad123]

week 9

Another good week of solid training. Managed to get to the gym 4 times this week. Still sticking to the same half body split but have now completely cut all failure and forced reps.
If I don't think I can complete the next rep I don't even try. I have also drawn up a training log so I can track my progress and ensure I am continually adding either weight or reps each workout. I'v set my rep range between 7-10 so once I complete all 3 sets to 10 reps I will add 2.5kg (5lb) on the next workout. If I don't get all 3 sets to 10 I will keep the weight the same for the next workout and go for 3x10. I don't expect to gain a great deal whilst cutting but the log will keep me motivated.

This weeks measurements.
Waist 33.75" (-0.75") Finally below 34".
Hips 38.5" (-0.5")
Thigh 23.75" (-0.25")
Chest 42" (0.75")

Weight 170.5lb (-1.5lb)

 

[joboco]

Well done mate, yet another drop in weight.

 

[aad123]

Well done mate, yet another drop in weight.

Thanks.

I'v set my goal at about 11 stone (154lb) 10 to 12% body fat, so nearly there.

I'v been looking at some old photos from about 2 or 3 years ago and at the time I thought I looked ok, boy was I wrong. I have been taking body shots every 4 weeks since I started so on week 12 I will post another set showing progress so far. If you look every day you don't see any changes but over 4 weeks the difference is more apparent.

Thanks for showing an interest.

 

[MrSaturatedFat]

lift heavy - take a multi

 

[joboco]

I just had a quick look back through your post and noticed you said you are going to start a PH cycle.
Are you still planning to do this and if so what are you planning on running.

 

[aad123]

I just had a quick look back through your post and noticed you said you are going to start a PH cycle.
Are you still planning to do this and if so what are you planning on running.

I was going to go with p-mag as this seemed to be the best option for a first cycle. It was a choice between p-mag and h-drol but I felt that based on what I read p-mag would be a better of the two.
My feeling at the moment is that I will stick with the cutting diet and when I get to 10/12% bodt fat keep my weight there and maintain for a month or so. Following that I will start a clean bulk ( hopefully with a helping hand from Built, she has sorted me out up to now ) and if that goes well I may not need the ph.

There is still a lot to do before I get to that stage though.

 

[joboco]

OK I get ye. personally I dont know much about p-mag but I will have a good google.
I'm not a fan of any PH's having done just one myself.
I dont like what they do to the old organs, and the gains are not solid more water/fat than anything else.
With hindsight I should have just gone for a Tes-e cycle. But we are all wiser looking back.

But like you say you have plenty of time to make up your mind on that one.

And I do agree if Built cant sort you out no one can she is the best in my opinion.

 

[aad123]

OK I get ye. personally I dont know much about p-mag but I will have a good google.
I'm not a fan of any PH's having done just one myself.
I dont like what they do to the old organs, and the gains are not solid more water/fat than anything else.
With hindsight I should have just gone for a Tes-e cycle. But we are all wiser looking back.

But like you say you have plenty of time to make up your mind on that one.

And I do agree if Built cant sort you out no one can she is the best in my opinion.

I did look into a test cycle as it would be far safer on my system and a better option than ph, but not being able to get them from a reliable supplier was the major problem. I have read too many stories of people getting ripped off over the net. I also understand that ph and aas are only the icing on the cake and if your diet is not bang on then they would be rather ineffective, so for now its diet / diet / diet. How much broccoli can one man eat???

If I can manage to get good gains naturally then that would be best. I don't think I will ever be a 15st beast but a little more muscularity would suit me fine. I just dont want to look like Mr Average if you get what I mean. Sure if I got to 13st at 10% bodyfat I would be over the moon but I dont think me genetics would allow that. But that sure wont stop me from trying.

What ph did you take and what were your gains like ? did you manage to keep them ?

 

[suppRatings]

If you are cutting you will want to avoid carbs...but since its post workout, it is probably ok

 

[joboco]

I think you are correct if you can make gains naturally its the best thing. The time will come for other things.

Personally I did a cycle of T-Bullets by extreme nutrition.

This was against the advice of some very knowledgeable members of this forum.

Well you live and hopefully learn. I did 1st week x 1 tab, 2nd week x 2 tabs, 3rd week only managed to get halfway through. Appetite disappeared, back pumps where unbearable and generally felt quite ill.

Following this with very high cholesterol + bad blood count, shrunken nuts and loss of desire in the bedroom department, I decided overall it was a bad experience.

OK Maybe I could have prepared a little better for this cycle but personally I would not advice this product.

I will be running a 500mg/week Test e cycle next as soon as my golfers elbow problem is sorted.