Quick question

[mcguin]

Just want some insight to this...Since I have been lifting which is around 6 years on and off I've always been a afternoon gym person. But I am going to be changing my hours at work and I would like to start doing a 30-40m minute cardio routine in the morning around 7 and then will be doing my lifting routine which lasts about an hour or so in the pm around 4. My thinking is that I will definitely be able to start burning fat and gaining lean muscle with this sort of two a day...what are your feelings???

 

[Scarface30]

I am thinking that you'd only be able to burn fat OR build muscle, not both at the same time, if that is what you are asking. bear in mind, proper diet is going to be needed too.

 

[mcguin]

Yes my diet isnt a question. But I've read many posts about how a cutting diet where someone needs to lose weight should include strict cardio and weight lifting...? In other words firstly will the split in the day work towards my advantage as far as ultimately losing body fat and cutting, and will lifting in the afternoon keep my metabolism in a fat burning state?

 

[Irons77]

Yes it will. IMO I perfer one day lifting and one day Cardio not both in one day for cutting. Don't over do it bro

 

[tomuchgear]

that is a fine split as long as like irons said you dont over do it. make sure your morning cardio is not to harsh. you will be able to build some lean mass, drop some fat. dont expect to gain large amounts of mass on a split like that. also watch your calories, and protien intake as well.

 

[RyanShesan]

I actually think its plausible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. With that routine make sure you are getting a nice bedtime shake in place, since your building muscle mainly at night (a casein rich shake will do), during the day you'll be burning the fat off, but make sure you keep the protein supply steady while your up.

 

[oneovercabin]

Is your goal to bulk or cut down?

 

[mcguin]

Is your goal to bulk or cut down?

To cut down, I am very bulky and have always used my natural look to my advantage when lifting, heavy weights low cardio, but I'm at a point where I want to get ripped and lose my excess body fat...I know I'll be losing a little muscle along the way, but I can spare it, I want to lose a good 30 lbs of fat

 

[tomuchgear]

make sure your diet is clean, do a good amount of hiit, and keep your lifting up. if you keep you lifting up it should help preserve the hard earned muscle you do have. better stated you will lose some of the muscle that is typical, but you can help preserve some by keeping your lifting up.

 

[oneovercabin]

To cut down, I am very bulky and have always used my natural look to my advantage when lifting, heavy weights low cardio, but I'm at a point where I want to get ripped and lose my excess body fat...I know I'll be losing a little muscle along the way, but I can spare it, I want to lose a good 30 lbs of fat

Refine your diet. Get the right macros in the right proportions and make sure you're in a caloric deficit (don't go too far).

I would try something different than what you're doing for training though. Do some steady state cardio in the morning or after you lift on days that you train with weights. On the other days, try some HIIT (really good for fat-burning). Keep up with the weight training.

 

[tomuchgear]

my split goes like this. 4 days a week i lift some times five if my ankle will let me do legs. 5 days a week i do cardio. some times twice a day. if i do cardio twice i only do ten minutes in the morning. middle of the week is just cardio gives my whole body time to heal. i typicaly do cycling for cardio so my arms dont get taxed. i like cardio after lifting that way my body isnt to tired for the lifting. so far that split has let me gain some lean mass, and let me lose some body fat.

 

[oneovercabin]

my split goes like this. 4 days a week i lift some times five if my ankle will let me do legs. 5 days a week i do cardio. some times twice a day. if i do cardio twice i only do ten minutes in the morning. middle of the week is just cardio gives my whole body time to heal. i typicaly do cycling for cardio so my arms dont get taxed. i like cardio after lifting that way my body isnt to tired for the lifting. so far that split has let me gain some lean mass, and let me lose some body fat.

I don't understand what you're saying here. You lift 5 days a week? That's not smart IMO. Not to mention, it seems like you lift 4 days a week doing upper-body movements. I think that's too much.

Cardio after lifting is good. From what I understand, lifting will deplete your muscle glycogen. If you do cardio after lifting, you're not spending 5-10 minutes taking energy from your glycogen reserves but instead from your body's fat reserves.

Cycling is good cardio IMO. It's really easy to do HIIT on a bike and it's low impact as well. Running, rowing, and swimming are also excellent forms of cardio.

 

[tomuchgear]

ok here is how it goes yes it is a wierd split but it does work for me. i do diffent exercises. each day some times i do lift five days a week if its five then its legs on the 5th day. ok here we go chest i work twice same with back. i do do sections of other body parts to focus on lagging areas. this has allowed for more toning, and development. for most peolpe i would imagine it wouldnt work but for me it works very well. if you would like a detailed workout just say the word, and i will post exactly what i do so you can see how it works. i understand it sounds stupid but practice and theory are very diffrent.

 

[mcguin]

what are your opinions on using the elliptical? I have used this in the past and found it very effective...

 

[tomuchgear]

i like ellipticals but not when i am trieng to maintain. i feel like when i do a elliptical i am over training my upper body. that is why i prefer hiit on a cycle. lower body is doing most of the work, done correctly you can help your core a bit to.

 

[oneovercabin]

I don't really buy that. Not to mention, why don't you want to do work with your upper body? Have you ever seen how cut swimmers/rowers are?

The elliptical is fine. I don't use it myself, (as I stick to running, biking, and swimming), but I'm sure you can get good HIIT on it without putting too much impact on your joints.

Overall, vary your cardio just like you do with your lifting and you will see good results IMO. Do some steady state work and some HIIT. Change up the kind of cardio you do as well.

 

[tomuchgear]

for days that you are not training upper body, your healing days you think its good to go ahead and train on machine that is stressing your upper body? depending on your training split should change your cardio. there are lots of good ways to get cardio, depends on how you do them. my point is simply doing alot of rows on a rowing machine after you get done doing your back can be counter productive.

 

[tomuchgear]

I don't really buy that. Not to mention, why don't you want to do work with your upper body? Have you ever seen how cut swimmers/rowers are?

The elliptical is fine. I don't use it myself, (as I stick to running, biking, and swimming), but I'm sure you can get good HIIT on it without putting too much impact on your joints.

Overall, vary your cardio just like you do with your lifting and you will see good results IMO. Do some steady state work and some HIIT. Change up the kind of cardio you do as well.

also pointing out swimmers and rowers only helps my point. those guys are typicaly not very large at all. if you are trieng to keep size, put on lean mass. why would you want to add even more stress to a already tired muscle group. your training split differs from mine. for me a elliptical is typicaly not a option.

 

[oneovercabin]

First, there's no cardio that you can do that doesn't stress muscle groups. So why just choose ones that stress your lower body muscles? Maybe that works for you, but for the average person, varying cardio is much, much better.

Not to mention, swimmers don't get large for a reason - they can't keep that kind of mass and still swim fast. They don't train to get big, they train to get faster in the water, and getting big is detrimental to that at some point.

I don't get where you're going with your point. This guy is talking about cutting. Swimmers and rowers have very low BF and a good amount of lean mass. If you want to cut, swimming and rowing are both viable options. You shouldn't have to worry about overstressing your upper body muscles IMO.

The reason you have to worry about such things is you work upper body 4 days a week and never do a lower body workout...

 

[tomuchgear]

the guy asked if he could build muscle, and cut. my point was done correctly you can. for one i very rarely can do a lower body workout due to a physical problem. training your upper body numerous times a week is smart if you break it up into sections. do you know how many muscles are in your upper back? trieng to train all of them plus biceps is just stupid. i would rather have a fully developed back than just nice lats and traps. also given enough time to rest in a seven day period your body gets more than enough time to heal if done correctly. yes if you are just trieng to cut i say go for the eliptical hit it hard. when you are trieng to maintain, build and cut all at the same time you need to be a little more choosey that is my point.

 

[tomuchgear]

swimming and rowing are great exercises i am not knocking them at all. they are great for cutting i agree. my last post came off a little rude so i am stating my point better here. when you are trieng to do what this guy wants to do picking cardio needs to be precise. you need to know what muscles you are going to be hitting. also i dont know about you but when i used to swim i hit it hard. maybee he is diffrent and will not do hiit with his swimming. i find cycling to be one of the best and easiest ways to do hit with out to much muscle burn. now unless he has changed his mind from his original question then i stand by my suggestion. if he wanted to just cut without a fear of muscle burn then i would definetly say swimming is one of the best full body workouts you can get. i used to swim great lengths with my upper body becouse i couldnt kick with my left leg.

 

[Gazhole]

Diet management will decide if you can lose fat or not.

Dont train 5 times a week.

Do cardio regardless of your goals.

You cant bulk and cut at the same time.

Cardio is cardio no matter what equipment or form it takes.

Personally i wouldnt do one thing in the morning then another at night. If you were doing them right after the other then it wouldnt be so bad.

If you manage it right though, then i dont see any reason why it couldnt work. Bear in mind that its an IF you manage it right. You're still gonna need to periodize your weight training and leave enough rest in the week to recover.

 

[tomuchgear]

five times for me is only if i get legs. wich that rarely happens. i think the question was more over if you can build some lean mass not so much bulking. wich i feel you can build lean mass while cutting. ya you definetly cant bulk and cut at the same time.

 

[Gazhole]

five times for me is only if i get legs. wich that rarely happens. i think the question was more over if you can build some lean mass not so much bulking. wich i feel you can build lean mass while cutting. ya you definetly cant bulk and cut at the same time.

I dont know if im misunderstanding your post, but you cant build ANY muscle and lose fat at the same time.

Theres no such thing as "lean mass" and "bulk mass" its all just muscle. "Lean" means "very little fat" in this context. Lean mass is mass without so much fat on the top.

Its physically impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, because its mathematically impossible to be in a caloric surplus and a caloric deficit at the same time.

I dunno if im correcting you or answering the original question, lol

Either way, its all true

 

[tomuchgear]

by lean mass i do mean less fat wich in a sense is building. sorry i shouuld have clarified that statement. by building i mean building a better body. so yes in a sense you are doing a little of both. sorry i am still getting the hang of posting on these threads, and some times i dont clarify enough.

 

[Gazhole]

by lean mass i do mean less fat wich in a sense is building. sorry i shouuld have clarified that statement. by building i mean building a better body. so yes in a sense you are doing a little of both. sorry i am still getting the hang of posting on these threads, and some times i dont clarify enough.

Lol, its cool.

 

[tomuchgear]

sorry again i am just a very hands on person. i am so used to talking in the gym were people understand what i am saying. as opposed to typing were what i am trieng to say gets over thought and i mess it up lol. oh and here is a quick update on my training split it may seem odd to any one but one of my clients just got third in a body building comp, another one of my clients has made great results building a better body with my training plan. ya it seems like a lot but theory and practice are very diffrent. gaz you said in another thread isolate every fiber if you can. well think about how many fibers are in your back. now think if you tried to hit every muscle in your back in one day. then on top of that add your biceps, and rear delts to the mix. that is alot of freaking training in one day. that is why my training is broken up the way it is. i break up my upper body. chest is just the odd ball. so one day i hit it with harder exercises. then the next chest day is more about development. sounds like alot but it actually works, and works well. my stats speak for them selves, and i am all natural.

 

[Gazhole]

"Everything works, nothing works forever." .

I dont think i said isolate every fibre though, i may have said hit as much muscle as you can, which is true. But not isolate, im against isolation.

Thing is, a lot of people try to apply that "work everything" idea to a traditional bodybuilding (generally flawed) way of thinking. I.e. - when i say "work pulling movements" they think that means they should pick some lower back movements, some bicep movements, some lat movements, some rear delt movements...etc etc...

The truth is, and what i usually try and get across, is that they are all the same thing! Rows work all of those things, pullups work those things, etc etc. You can get a good workout stimulating a shittonne of fibres in half an hour if you have to

 

[tomuchgear]

it was some thing along those line damn i cant find the thread or i would quote it here. isolation was probaly not the exact word but you know what i mean here. any way hmmm how to say this ok the movements are not isolation they hit multiple targets at once. if you really look at diffrent exercises for your back and such, grip and how high you go play a large roll in what muscles get stimulation. i like compound movements that will hit my traps, rear delts, rhomboids in one shot. why would i want to sit in the gym all day burning one muscle. for me doing the right lifts to hit all the diffrent muscles in my back at least once a week makes since. yes my frequency is high but it does work. also with your statement rows work all those things yes some rows stimulate other things. like i am saying picking the right exercises to stimulate all over growth has worked for me. if i were on a bulk again my program would be way diffrent. i am only developing now that i have packed on the size i was after.

 

[Gazhole]

Exactly - you can accomplish a lot by using big movements, theres no reason to be in the gym for hours if you stick with multi-joint movements that at the end of the session will have hit all the bases for that particular area.