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Reason for being "natural"?

Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Juicers will never grow back muscle without it? What do you know you've never done it, I know for a fact that we can, during my year and a half off I tried to get back into the gym from a bad injury and something always seemed to come up to prevent it. But in the one or two juice free weeks I would gain back 10lbs just from muscle memory alone. Muscle memory is the same for juicers and natty's alike. It does not prefer one or the other. Once you gain the muscle (upto your genetic potential) if you lose it it will come back. And in that year and a half it took over 1 year for me to lose 80% of my gains and that was with no working out at all and eating a lot less. In all your years of research you must've read that anything under 300mg a week of test is only gonna shut you down and not produce favorable results (not including someone on trt) and that is from the William Llewelyn anabolics 2009 guide. He knows his shit, you on the otherhand are not a scientific professional your a biased fool who has no business telling others to juice or not. And for the guy who asked about sides it's a personal thing, I myself don't require an ai ever, but I lose the hair on my head very easily and my body hair goes crazy. My friends nips get sore after 2 shots of test. You gotta experiment and find what works for you.
 
I was wondering about people who take only one cycle every few years, If i was to jump off in the deep end it would mostly likely be a one time event or I wouldn't be taking another cycle for months to years later. From this standpoint (not a very discussed one) what do I have to consider differently? Been lifting hard and eating hard from the beginning and i'm up ~40 lb in less that a year and a half. So I much be doing something right.

that's what they all say
 
BJG - WAITING FOR YOU TO POST STUDIES. Thank you.
 
i got pics of me natural and looking pretty jacked.
 
financially and not have the time will in fact limit me. see i can't get a straight answer
 
Here is Merkaba. Mr. "I got up to 270 natty with a six pack" Mr. "I look better than 99% of juicers I know" THESE ARE HIS WORDS!!!!
Props to you for getting up on stage. You looked good, but, stage ready is one day out of the year. Here is what you look like the other 364 days. This is not that impressive:

attachment.php

Lmfao @ 270lb "natural" :roflmao: with visible 6 pack.. This [...] serious?
 
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A lot in this thread has gotten real childish.
Come on guys, stop.
 
A lot in this thread has gotten real childish.
Come on guys, stop.

Welcome to IML! The place where hormones and opinions come together :thumbs:
 
BJG - STILL waiting for your studies. I'll send you a PM to remind you.
 
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[TD="align: left"][h=1]Primobolan Side Effects[/h][h=2]THE DIFFERENT PRIMOBOLAN SIDE EFFECTS[/h]
Primobolan is a well-known drug in the world of bodybuilding not only because it is excellent for cutting, it is also one of the rare androgen-based steroids that is mild enough to be used by women and beginners. Primobolan was first introduced by the company Schering. It is a dihydrotestosterone-derivative that does not interact with the aromatase enzyme. It had a double bond that inhibits it from binding with the androgen receptor. Primobolan has several structural alterations that are responsible for only minimal Primobolan side effects.

Primobolan side effects are mild amidst the steroid being a dihydrotestosterone derivative. SincePrimobolan does not convert to estrogen even at high doses, you can expect that you will have a well-cut ripped body. On top of that, you won't have to worry about developing systemic diseases such as high blood pressure due to water retention or, for males, gynecomastia or the development of abnormal breast tissue.

The most common Primobolan side effects that occur are those caused by this steroid's androgenicity, which I should stress is rather weak compared to other anabolic androgenic steroids. Rarely, women experience one of these Primobolan side effects through virilization. Virilization is manifested as increase in body hair, changes in the voice, menstrual irregularities and clitoral hypertrophy. Some of these changes are permanent even if you had stopped using Primobolan. Fortunately, a dose of as high as 50 to 100 mg a week is sufficient enough for the steroid's action to take place and at the same time, limit virilizing Primobolan side effects in women. Other Primobolan side effects due to androgenicity occur in both men and women. This includes acne formation not only on the face but also, and more commonly, on the chest and the back. Acne can be treated by visiting your dermatologist or applying Accutane on the lesions. Some might also experience androgen-related hair loss. This Primobolan side effect is manifested by the M shape receding hairline in males and thinning of hair in females. There are many treatments out there that are used to address thisPrimobolan side effect effectively and these include application of Minoxidil and Ketoconazole. Primobolan side effects also include those without any particular treatments such as increase in aggressiveness, insomnia, and increase in sweating even when doing minimal activities. These Primobolan side effects often disappear when the steroid has been stopped.

Primobolan is not a 17-alpha alkylated compound unlike other anabolic steroids. It is a 1-methlated steroid that is relatively mild on the liver. Long term use of this drug, however, can lead to Primobolan side effects of changes in liver enzyme values although these levels return to normal upon discontinuation of the steroid.

To recap, Primobolan side effects are rare and if present, these Primobolan side effects are mild even at high doses. You won't suffer from any life-threatening effects present in other steroids. It is the lack of Primobolan side effects that make it a very effective drug to combine with other anabolic androgenic steroids including the heavier, more dangerous ones.


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[h=2]rimobolan[/h][h=3](methenolone acetate)[/h]
Primobolan is one of those anabolic steroids which has a cult following not unlike the old original version of Masteron. Actually, as you can easily see from its anabolic:androgenic ratio below in the profile, its a pretty weak steroid but actually stronger(!) than Masteron in both regards. I dont know anyone who has run both compounds at the same dose. We are probably justified in speculating that youd probably get similar results from either of them, when you consider the fact that you are getting quite a bit less actual drug and more ester when you choose injectable Primobolan (which has the very long Enanthate ester attached to it) over Masteron (which has the very short propionate ester attached to it). In truth, I think part of the reason many Primobolan users have been disappointed is that they failed to use enough of it, for long enough. From its chemical structure and anabolic:androgenic rating, we can assume it is at least as effective as Masteron, on an equal Mg for mg basis. However, due to its ester (in the injectable version), it needs to be run for at least 12 weeks to see the full benefits from it. When you consider a measly dose of 400mgs of this stuff for 12 weeks will probably cost you around $500.

Its easy to see why many people have tried to use less...and have been disappointed with their results. On the other hand, many competitive bodybuilders consider Primobolan indespensible to their pre-contest drud routine, and wouldnt consider dieting without it. Anyway...I think the comparison to Masteron (another great precontest drug) is the best one we can make, with reference to expected gains and results.I happen to be one of the few people who have used Drostanolone Enanthate (Masteron with the Enanthate ester attached) as well as Methenolone Enanthate (injectable Primobolan). I can tell you that the results from these two compounds, when ester and mg potency are the same, are in fact very similar.
[h=3]Effects of Primobolan[/h]
Lets flesh out some of the various general effects of Primobolan, before we get into the differences between the oral and injectable versions... One study performed on sheep involved administering 100mgs of Methenolone, and electronically stimulating their lats (electronic stimulation was used because they kept falling off the chin-up bars). Anyway, when compared with the lat muscles of sheep who didnt receive Methenolone, the receiving group gained significantly more muscle mass as well as strength (1)(2). Its also has a relatively high affinity for binding to the AR, actually binding better than testosterone (3). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is such a good "fat burner." Strong AR binding has been positively correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning) (8).In addition, as this steroid can actually aid in reducing breast tumors, no ancillary products need be considered for use with Primobolan, and in fact, it may actually be a useful ancillary agent in its own right, similar to Masteron. Also, just like Masteron, Primobolan has no propensity to aromatize (convert to estrogen). Since it doesnt aromatize, alot of the side effects commonly associated with estrogen will not be of concern. This means water retention, acne, and gyno will be non-existent more or less. this lack of water retention combined with the slow and steady gains provided by Primo may help to explain why it has earned a reputation for creating quality muscle gains. This also helps to explain why it is so expensive. Although estrogenic sides are not a concern, hair loss still, remains a very real concern with Primobolan, as with many DHT-Derived steroids. Many primobolan fans always include Finasteride and Ketoconazole (shampoo) in cycles containing Primobolan.Although nobody would ever suggest to use Primobolan as a bulking agent, its been studied as an agent to halt wasting and possibly reverse many of the adverse effects of anemia. It is a shocking failure in both areas, according to some of the case studies Ive read, (5)(6) and this should come to no surprise to anyone. Anadrol reigns supreme in this area, and nobody in the athletic community would ever compare those two drugs. However, Michael Mooney and many other respected doctors who work with AIDS patients have found sufficient evidence to claim that Primobolan is an immune enhancer and as such is very useful for AIDS patients (not that the FDA cares...Primobolan is still not approved for sale in the United States). AIDS patients arent really in need of Bulking Drugs, so an immune enhancer like Primo which will add small, quality gains in muscle is perfect for them. And since we arent even going to vaguely consider the use of Primobolan as a bulking agent, clearly this leaves us with considering it primarily for use in gaining and maintaining lean tissue. Its a great choice for this purpose, and many competitors have used it very successfully to retain muscle while on a calorie reduced diet. The reason Primo is so useful for this purpose is that one of its primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen (7) at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build. In the case of using primo as a pre-contest drug, this nitrogen retention will help you retain muscle and ensure that your dieting preferentially favors fat loss over muscle loss.

Read more: Primobolan - Steroid .com
 
Dude you posted "info" from steroid sites. Show us some RESEARCH data from reputable sources like Pubmed and Medline.

You know, IMRAD format...
 
Dude you posted "info" from steroid sites. Show us some RESEARCH data from reputable sources like Pubmed and Medline.

You know, IMRAD format...
dude it is coming ....besides anytime i send medical research about the harm of steroids ..people in this forum jump on me:) it is very hard to find medical research (not a steroid sites type article) stating that steroids are good for you because the truth is : THEY ARE NOT as simple as that...however what seems the least harmful one with the least headaches is Primobolan.
true medical research about any steroids is going to tell you the truth : steroids will lead to health problems...and a lot of them are done and i posted them especially on tren. The positive thing about primo is that it is the least feared steroids and not many negative (true medical research) was written baout it.
But again you will not find any reputable medical source that will say that steroids use for bodybuilding is without any risks. so if i was to use steroids (which i won't) i will use the least harmful and the lowest dose possible.
 
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So then why is Anavar used in patients who are experiencing the "Wasting Away" part of AIDS. Why is EPO used in patients who have cancer or severe anemia.


Seriously some juicers are smart in what they do. They analyze their diet, training and sleep to the T. After that, they decide to incorporate steroids AFTER they reach their limit. They get bloodwork and educate themselves on what lab values mean.

If someone is natural, that means they do not take ANYTHING, not even creatine or protein powder. Why should they? If they are natural, the only thing they should be taking in is.....FOOD.

So you keep looking for more ways to bash the "underground" culture. Funny, news reports have stated that your typical steroid user is educated, doesn't have a record, doesn't go out shooting people for their next vial and usually has a very good job. Oh wait wasn't the DEA and even other agencies against the classification of steroids?

/My part in this thread.
 
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Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
So then why is Anavar used in patients who are experiencing the "Wasting Away" part of AIDS. Why is EPO used in patients who have cancer or severe anemia.


Seriously some juicers are smart in what they do. They analyze their diet, training and sleep to the T. After that, they decide to incorporate steroids AFTER they reach their limit. They get bloodwork and educate themselves on what lab values mean.

If someone is natural, that means they do not take ANYTHING, not even creatine or protein powder. Why should they? If they are natural, the only thing they should be taking in is.....FOOD.

So you keep looking for more ways to bash the "underground" culture. Funny, news reports have stated that your typical steroid user is educated, doesn't have a record, doesn't go out shooting people for their next vial and usually has a very good job. Oh wait wasn't the DEA and even other agencies against the classification of steroids?

/My part in this thread.

your argument does not stand....if some patients take steroids or any other medication it is not because it is ok to do it! it is because not taking it is life threatening and taking steroids or any medication is the lesser harm.
most people in the gym taking steroids are very unaware of the risks as many statistics shows and just by looking around you in gyms ...in this forum...reading crap on google does not make you educated.
creatine and protein is found in food and supplementing it a bit is ok (too much is also harmful) however you don't find steroids in food which makes it UNNATURAL and extremely harmful.
 
Yea but do you get 5 grams of creatine from eating meat?

You have still failed to show any true medical research about your "theory".

Listen if you hate steroids that fucking much, more power to you. I hate cigarettes, but do I go on a campaign to smear them? No. If people want to use, so what?

I think it's safe to say that we agree to disagree.....
 
I'm tired of being big and strong...and I'm tired of all the sex with my wife. I think I'm going to be a natty from now on. Being this good looking and this jerked is a curse.
 
I trained for 6 1/2 years 100% Natural... No Preworkout, no creatine, no protein shakes. just FOOD. Not gonna lie...it sucks. But, it gave me a hell of a base to build on.

I also did not know much about training back then, something I have greatly improved on.
Back then it was all 10 reps and shit ton of sets... all the time.
 
KOS,
yes that was 2 months ago?
What is your point?
As with any non-professional working out hasn't been fully progressive. I haven't been growing for 10 years lol. I have just made the decision to work towards bodybuilding comps recently.

Also, I have been bigger than I was in that pic that you just posted. For example I am much more lean and ripped in the pic that is my avatar...if you would like I can dig up a bigger version of it to satisfy you.
I was at my smallest in a while when the above pic you posted.

To be honest I find it pretty immature that you troll me so much.

I have been training for around 10 years (2003-2012)
I trained for 6 1/2 years natural

Thanks bud!
 
Sorry over the past 10 years of lifting I did not have the dedication to perfect myself into the monster that you are.
 
Posting 2 pics from last summer
where I am bigger than I was 2 months ago. for KOS :)
 
IMAG0128.jpg


IMAG0127.jpg



Please Leave old Crownzy alone.

I just want to be in peace here bud. not argue like a child with people
 
pic proves all you have ever done is bench and curls

typical short noob build


thickness doesnt impress because who couldnt fill out 5 ft 3 frame
 
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