Flex said:
Explain how at the same time Brady Anderson was rumored to have used steroids his homers went up. I mean Brady of all people.
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Should Bonds get an Asterisk?
- Thread starter min0 lee
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Explain how at the same time Brady Anderson was rumored to have used steroids his homers went up. I mean Brady of all people.
Hall of Famer suspicious of Oriole's output
ESPN.com news services
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- Jim Palmer has questions about Brady Anderson, his 50 homers in 1996 and steroids, but the Hall of Fame pitcher couldn't come up with definitive answers when pinned down about his suspicions.
In an interview broadcast on a Baltimore radio station Sunday, Palmer said that Anderson's Orioles-record 50-homer output might have been tainted by steroid use. Anderson's previous best was 21 homers in 1992 and his subsequent best was 24 in 1999. He hit 16 and 18 the seasons before and after he hit his 50.
"I like Brady, and it doesn't mean he's a bad guy because he took steroids," Palmer said in the interview, which was taped Saturday. "But I'm sure he wanted to enhance his performance.
"I don't know how he hit 29 more homers that year," said Palmer, who announces on Orioles telecasts. "And he hit 31 more on the road that year, so it's not like he took advantage of Camden Yards."
Palmer's quotes appeared in The Baltimore Sun on Tuesday. He was interviewed by radio station 98 Rock.
In the interview, Palmer also questioned Barry Bonds' performance in breaking Mark McGwire's single-season home run record in 2001, noting that his increased size and power could have come from an illegal source.
Asked Monday by The Sun to explain himself, Palmer said, "I don't know if Brady took steroids. How would I know? But he did go from [16] home runs to 50.
"When Bonds goes from 49 to 73, you just wonder," Palmer told the newspaper. "You're trying to have a level playing field and maintain the integrity of the game. I'm sure it was a great year for Brady, and it was a great year when Bonds broke McGwire's record, but you just wonder."
Palmer said he didn't mean to indict Anderson.
"It was a general comment on the state of the game," Palmer said to The Sun. "They need to deal with it, whether it's Congress or the commissioner and the players union, they're going to have to come up with something.
"I'm just saying it's a concern when you have aberrations in people's performances," Palmer said. "I know how hard Brady worked to be a good player. But who knows? You just don't know, and that's the fault of baseball, not Brady."
Whether it be Football, Baseball, Bodybuilding or any sport, steroids do not make a champion athlete. If steroids were responsible for great athletes we would have many more John Elways (NFL), Barry Bonds (MLB), Ronnie Colemans (IFBB).
Genetics, hard work and discipline make champions, these athletes would be great with or without steroids. And if anyone thinks they could be a great athlete if they just took steroids is very disillusioned.
Genetics, hard work and discipline make champions, these athletes would be great with or without steroids. And if anyone thinks they could be a great athlete if they just took steroids is very disillusioned.
Robert DiMaggio said:
THANK YOU, Mr. Dimaggio.
min0 lee said:
Mino,
read Mr. D's post. it explains it ALL.
i can't believe you people.
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Robert DiMaggio said:
Damn Robert, you always come up with the perfect way to sum things up. You must run a chat board or something.
Robert DiMaggio said:
I think more at issue here is that steroids enhance great athletes. The issue of the asterisk is that past athletes did not have steroids to help them and I feel you can no compare the two. It is like comparing apples and oranges taking someone who is not using steroids compared with someone who does. You cannot ignore the fact that when steroids were running rampart and we had McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds all juiced up and banging out 70 homers and now that steroids are being controlled no one can even reach the 50 mark. I think you have to judge them differently then athletes of the past who did not have that advantage.
cjrmack said:
first of all, they are NOT being controlled. it's such a bullshit policy.
secondly, sure, maybe no single athlete reached 50, but i can guarentee you this past year is right up there in total HR's with ANY other year in MLB history...
look how many the freakin' Yankees hit as a team, who cares if no one hit 70?
All this babble is irrelevant. Regardless of whether juice helps or not, the point of the matter is that until now, they weren't illegal in baseball. Even protein powder and creatine weren't so easily obtained in the 50's, does that mean they should strike all records because the comparison is unfair? So, let's just say next year they make creatine illegal to possess. Does that give Johnny Law the right to come pounding on your door to arrest you because you took it 3 years ago? Think about it.
Dale Mabry said:
THANK YOU, Dale
You guys are right. It's totally fair and honest for someone who is talented to lie to his team, his city, and everyone else and collect that $10 million paycheck and trophy that he cheated to get.....
You guys are so funny. Have any of you competed on a pro level, in sports, that is?
Steroids totally make a difference in a ton of sports, baseball included. The only thing you've addressed is ability to react to pitches, hand/eye coordination. Since you are pretending you don't know what steroids do (and I know you know, which is why this is frusturating), I'll explain:
1. Recovery Time: ESPECIALLY for a sport like baseball, where the season is LONG and persisitent, your ability to enhance tissue recovery and repair is a major advantage. You can swing for a homer at every at-bat if you never have one of those "Damn, I worked it pretty hard last night" feelings in warm-up.
2. Base Running/Fielding Speed: Do I need to cover this at all? Or are you going to pretend running isn't enhanced from certain drug combos? Explain how Marion Jones went from the best in the world to poor performance when the drug testing was turned up a notch? I can also cite personal experience, post college track.
3. Explosive Speed: Increasing the size (via AAS) and number (via GH/IGF) of fast twitch muscle fibers greatly enhances your explosive speed. I cannot think of any better example of anerobic explosive movement than swinging a bat, throwing a pitch, or jumping to catch a fly ball. Again, anyone here who has used AAS/GH/IGF, you know this is true.
4. Agression: Ever run a high dose of Test or better, a DHT derivative? Remember how it makes you feel like swinging a baseball bat at everything in your path? You don't think this helps you hit homers? You don't think Bonds is a an uncharacteristically agrressive and moody guy, for a millionaire with baseball lineage from heaven?
5. Attitude: This is the Superman Complex you get from the better steroids. If you wake up feeling like Superman, you have a serious psychological advantage on the field. This is the same reason they attempt to regulate stimulants and cocaine.
Regarding your argument about "stricter on roids," I agree with Flex, the new rules are just for show BUT the attitude and stakes are much higher now...it's much like the chilling effect in Law. With all of the scrutiny and Federal investigations and headline news attention, people are playing it safe. It's like if your neighbor gets busted for weed and you're growing...you'd probably settle down until the heat cools off.
I worked with a pro baseball pitcher who is now a sports caster in Detroit, and he was convinced that 1: tons of players jucie BUT 2: it's totally unfair to compare clean vs. jucied athletes.
And to whoever made the "creatine/protein" comparison...have you ever done steroids? That's trhe funniest bullshit I've ever read. Almost like a MuscleTech ad. There is a reason steroids are prescription drugs and protein powder isn't, but you already know that.
WHat kills me so much, is the logic behind your vehement defense of balls-out roid use is BECAUSE you KNOW they rock and turn your performance up MANY notches. Why don't you just be honest and say, yes they make you better, and it's not just 3 feet on a homerun swing. TOP PROFESSIONAL athletes, who by your own admission are super-gifted, they are choosing to use roids....why? Because it only gives them 3 feet on a swing...come on. These guys are good enough to bat over 300 without steroids...You know why they use them, especially if you've ever used steroids.
AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I'm not saying that Joe Nobody is going to become a Homerrun hitting MLB player overnight...its that if a group of players agree not to juice, and then a handful do, they're cheating! If it doesn't piss you off it should. If you were interested in fairness it should. I hate cheaters, and I think it's a pussy way out of problems in life. Anyone with integrity should feel the same way. Anyone who disagrees hasn't probably come to terms with their own cheatin' ways.
That's why it's not fair to compare Bonds' record against clean players, and why I say make two leagues. Like someone posted above, like auto racing: a stock league and a no-holds-barred league. And if you're not competing, who cares what you do.
You guys are so funny. Have any of you competed on a pro level, in sports, that is?
Steroids totally make a difference in a ton of sports, baseball included. The only thing you've addressed is ability to react to pitches, hand/eye coordination. Since you are pretending you don't know what steroids do (and I know you know, which is why this is frusturating), I'll explain:
1. Recovery Time: ESPECIALLY for a sport like baseball, where the season is LONG and persisitent, your ability to enhance tissue recovery and repair is a major advantage. You can swing for a homer at every at-bat if you never have one of those "Damn, I worked it pretty hard last night" feelings in warm-up.
2. Base Running/Fielding Speed: Do I need to cover this at all? Or are you going to pretend running isn't enhanced from certain drug combos? Explain how Marion Jones went from the best in the world to poor performance when the drug testing was turned up a notch? I can also cite personal experience, post college track.
3. Explosive Speed: Increasing the size (via AAS) and number (via GH/IGF) of fast twitch muscle fibers greatly enhances your explosive speed. I cannot think of any better example of anerobic explosive movement than swinging a bat, throwing a pitch, or jumping to catch a fly ball. Again, anyone here who has used AAS/GH/IGF, you know this is true.
4. Agression: Ever run a high dose of Test or better, a DHT derivative? Remember how it makes you feel like swinging a baseball bat at everything in your path? You don't think this helps you hit homers? You don't think Bonds is a an uncharacteristically agrressive and moody guy, for a millionaire with baseball lineage from heaven?
5. Attitude: This is the Superman Complex you get from the better steroids. If you wake up feeling like Superman, you have a serious psychological advantage on the field. This is the same reason they attempt to regulate stimulants and cocaine.
Regarding your argument about "stricter on roids," I agree with Flex, the new rules are just for show BUT the attitude and stakes are much higher now...it's much like the chilling effect in Law. With all of the scrutiny and Federal investigations and headline news attention, people are playing it safe. It's like if your neighbor gets busted for weed and you're growing...you'd probably settle down until the heat cools off.
I worked with a pro baseball pitcher who is now a sports caster in Detroit, and he was convinced that 1: tons of players jucie BUT 2: it's totally unfair to compare clean vs. jucied athletes.
And to whoever made the "creatine/protein" comparison...have you ever done steroids? That's trhe funniest bullshit I've ever read. Almost like a MuscleTech ad. There is a reason steroids are prescription drugs and protein powder isn't, but you already know that.
WHat kills me so much, is the logic behind your vehement defense of balls-out roid use is BECAUSE you KNOW they rock and turn your performance up MANY notches. Why don't you just be honest and say, yes they make you better, and it's not just 3 feet on a homerun swing. TOP PROFESSIONAL athletes, who by your own admission are super-gifted, they are choosing to use roids....why? Because it only gives them 3 feet on a swing...come on. These guys are good enough to bat over 300 without steroids...You know why they use them, especially if you've ever used steroids.
AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I'm not saying that Joe Nobody is going to become a Homerrun hitting MLB player overnight...its that if a group of players agree not to juice, and then a handful do, they're cheating! If it doesn't piss you off it should. If you were interested in fairness it should. I hate cheaters, and I think it's a pussy way out of problems in life. Anyone with integrity should feel the same way. Anyone who disagrees hasn't probably come to terms with their own cheatin' ways.
That's why it's not fair to compare Bonds' record against clean players, and why I say make two leagues. Like someone posted above, like auto racing: a stock league and a no-holds-barred league. And if you're not competing, who cares what you do.
Let me put it this way-->if you had made a decision to stay clean, struggled through injury and practice and long seasons to squeeze out a .250 in the majors, and then was sent back down to AAA-ball, and THEN found out that the guy that got your slot on the roster was juicing, you'd be pissed...that's one reason, among many, it's unfair.
I ran Division I track, and got extremely fast, just shy of Olympic qualifying. I have excellent genetics and a track coach dad. I never used any steroids back then. If I had in college, I'm sure you would have never heard from me on a message board of all things, and I'd be a world-class runner (BTW, in my event the line between fast and Olympic-level was only 2 seconds). It's like adding nitrous to an already tricked out hot rod. I've seen it happen. But I didn't think it was fair, b/c it was against the rules. As long as the majority of athletes agree with this, we can be content in winning AND losing, and there will be enough of us who are angry when someone is exposed for cheating.
Roids work...that's a big reason these boards are popular.
I ran Division I track, and got extremely fast, just shy of Olympic qualifying. I have excellent genetics and a track coach dad. I never used any steroids back then. If I had in college, I'm sure you would have never heard from me on a message board of all things, and I'd be a world-class runner (BTW, in my event the line between fast and Olympic-level was only 2 seconds). It's like adding nitrous to an already tricked out hot rod. I've seen it happen. But I didn't think it was fair, b/c it was against the rules. As long as the majority of athletes agree with this, we can be content in winning AND losing, and there will be enough of us who are angry when someone is exposed for cheating.
Roids work...that's a big reason these boards are popular.
brodus said:
It is still irrelevant since they weren't illegal. I get what you are saying, but just because someone chooses not to juice doesn't mean others shouldn't be able to if it is not illegal.
Some people choose not to eat meat, but that doesn't mean people who do eat meat should be banned from competition.
Quote from Kenny Rogers
Texas pitcher Kenny Rogers told Sports Illustrated: ''Basically, steroids can jump you a level or two. The average player can become a star and the star player can become a superstar. And the superstar? Forget it. He can do things we've never seen before.''
Texas pitcher Kenny Rogers told Sports Illustrated: ''Basically, steroids can jump you a level or two. The average player can become a star and the star player can become a superstar. And the superstar? Forget it. He can do things we've never seen before.''
We're not talking about average guys on the street taking steroids to become great athletes, we're talking about great athletes taking steroids to enhance their already gifted genetics in the sport where they already excel.Robert DiMaggio said:
Curt Schilling
Schilling said pitchers take steroids, too. He knows pitchers who threw 91 mph one year and then showed up the next season throwing 95-96 mph after using steroids. Schilling also quipped that anyone who looks at his body knows he does not take steroids.
Schilling said pitchers take steroids, too. He knows pitchers who threw 91 mph one year and then showed up the next season throwing 95-96 mph after using steroids. Schilling also quipped that anyone who looks at his body knows he does not take steroids.
SPIKE1257 said:
steroids are still illegal to use with a valid prescription if the use is stritcly for athstetics or for performance enhancement in sports...
Ditto!!!SPIKE1257 said:
min0 lee said:
definetly...any steroid that increases collagen synthesis would be a great help to a pitcher. GH would also be a big help here also for the same purpose...
Yes he was an MVP those years, however he never, i repeat never hit more than 46 home runs in his career. Then all of a sudden, one offseason later, he is up in weight by some 30+ pounds, and hits 73. Come on, the juice helped him big time. I voted YES, and give it back to Maris, a true home run record champion!!!I Are Baboon said:
AgreedMaxMirkin said:Yes...cause he's a prick.
His own players can't even stand him.
Maybe not superman vision, but an advantage to say the least. You keep bringing up the "one" strike that he would see at bat. Any other player would have been called on strikes, but bonds because he is an untouchable icon in baseball because of media whores, rarely had a strike called, because he was supposed to crush the ball, not get struck out like a normal player. And now that you mention the fact that he jacked the ball out of the park, it didn't hurt that he plays in a softball stadium taylormaid for him to steal the HR record from Aaron. I am a Cardinal fan, and even I know Mcgwire used, thats why I say give it back to Maris. He hit 61 Hr's and beat out the more popular Mantle even though the Yankees own fans where against him. A true HR champion!!!Flex said:
I agree, he is an outstanding player, not taking away what he has done in the past, B4 Juicegate that is!!!BoneCrusher said:
I fully agree with the OBP, and BA. However I do not feel that he had the same strike zone that anyone else did. Look back when McGwire and Sosa where going for the title, they had a smaller strike zone too.Flex said:
I wouldn't dispute the fact that your statement is True Prince. These athletes have talent with or without steroids or they wouldn't be recruited on the professional teams to begin with. The point here is that it is not fair to allow some players to have an edge on others with their massive strength gains developed from steroid.
Let say you take 2 equally talented players. Let's also say these players are top hitters with an identical record. One of the 2 players then starts taking steroids and within one season puts on 20/30lbs or more in weight and obviously increases his strength gains by huge numbers. You can't tell me that doesn't hold an advantage for this player. Where he may have been hitting balls on the average out in the mid outfield, now with this extra power he's knocking homeruns.. Naturally it takes skill... And again nobody would dispute this. But I surely don't think it is fair in sports to allow steroids where players who have been using them have obviously been gaining advantage over other players.
Then the question comes up....well lets make it a free for all and allow any player to use steroids in sports. Well to me first of all it is illegal to use steroids to begin with, and even under a doctors legal administration IMO it is not natural.
Those that are for steroids in sports can continue to dispute this, but it will never be allowed. I support this 100 percent. I hope they continue to make it tougher on these steroid users in sports.
Let say you take 2 equally talented players. Let's also say these players are top hitters with an identical record. One of the 2 players then starts taking steroids and within one season puts on 20/30lbs or more in weight and obviously increases his strength gains by huge numbers. You can't tell me that doesn't hold an advantage for this player. Where he may have been hitting balls on the average out in the mid outfield, now with this extra power he's knocking homeruns.. Naturally it takes skill... And again nobody would dispute this. But I surely don't think it is fair in sports to allow steroids where players who have been using them have obviously been gaining advantage over other players.
Then the question comes up....well lets make it a free for all and allow any player to use steroids in sports. Well to me first of all it is illegal to use steroids to begin with, and even under a doctors legal administration IMO it is not natural.
Those that are for steroids in sports can continue to dispute this, but it will never be allowed. I support this 100 percent. I hope they continue to make it tougher on these steroid users in sports.
Robert DiMaggio said:
AWESOME postmin0 lee said:
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