Should Bonds get an Asterisk?

[Randy]

How do you see someone's post if they are on ignore

That's kinda like "I see dead people".

Flex,

You do see that a post is made by those listed on your ignore list, but cannot see the contents of those posts... As I mentioned in my previous thread,
this is all I see: This message is hidden because gr81 is on your ignore list

Now if another member happens to quote his post contents in their own message, then it is visible to me. This is not a guaranteed block, but it helps one to be shielded from the dirt bags of the forum.

 

[tucker01]

I voted no, clearly Bonds was a phenomenal player before steriod use. But I do understand the reasoning for considering the Asterick.

Take a look at his stats pre 2000 and post 2000 quite a remarable difference

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=111188&statType=1

Pre 2000 Avg HR per Season 32
Post 200 Avg HR per Season 52

Pre OB% 407
Post OB% 535

Pre Slug% 561
Post Slug% 611

Pre Bat avg .288
Post Bat avg .341

Obviously Bonds has quite a remarkable improvement to his preformance since 2000, in which it would seem quite obvious Steriods have enhanced his natural abilities. Let alone the Fact that he should be on the down side of his career not the upswing at the age of 40.

It is foolish to think that steriods have not helped him get the single season record, nor more than likely the Career HR record. No doubt he has amazing Hand-eye coordination, why else would he be in the major leagues? Hitting a ball is a matter of hundreths of second for reaction time. Increased strenght allows one to get the back through the hitting area at a quicker rate, giving Bonds an opportunity to make better contact with the ball.

However, I voted no, because there are always going to be circumstances that could have impacted ones performance. He is a great athlete and nothing could take away from that, steroids or no steroids.

 

[min0 lee]

I voted no, clearly Bonds was a phenomenal player before steriod use. But I do understand the reasoning for considering the Asterick.

Take a look at his stats pre 2000 and post 2000 quite a remarable difference

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=111188&statType=1

Pre 2000 Avg HR per Season 32
Post 200 Avg HR per Season 52

Pre OB% 407
Post OB% 535

Pre Slug% 561
Post Slug% 611

Pre Bat avg .288
Post Bat avg .341

Obviously Bonds has quite a remarkable improvement to his preformance since 2000, in which it would seem quite obvious Steriods have enhanced his natural abilities. Let alone the Fact that he should be on the down side of his career not the upswing at the age of 40.

It is foolish to think that steriods have not helped him get the single season record, nor more than likely the Career HR record. No doubt he has amazing Hand-eye coordination, why else would he be in the major leagues? Hitting a ball is a matter of hundreths of second for reaction time. Increased strenght allows one to get the back through the hitting area at a quicker rate, giving Bonds an opportunity to make better contact with the ball.

However, I voted no, because there are always going to be circumstances that could have impacted ones performance. He is a great athlete and nothing could take away from that, steroids or no steroids.

I agree 100 per cent. I am nearly 40 myself, and I can't do nearly half the stuff I did in my early 30's. I can still outlast most of the 20 year olds kids but I am slowing down.

 

[ChrisROCK]

i don't think he deserves an asterisk. Steroids may make the ball go slightly farther, but goddamn, give the guy some credit. he's one of the top 2 hitters of all time. pitchers DON'T pitch to the guy, and when they do, it's NOT the steroids that are making contact with the ball...

Oh puhlease... It's a total ripple effect... It turns doubles into HR's, singles into doubles... That translates into more RBI's, more walks, more runs scored... Everything about the guy is tainted now, not only his ridiculous HR totals and records which he has set. Quite simply...there are no ifs, ands or buts about it... It's against league rules...period. How can there NOT be an asterisk next to his "accomplishments"?

He's a first class asshole!

 

[Cold Iron]

I agree 100 per cent. I am nearly 40 myself, and I can't do nearly half the stuff I did in my early 30's. I can still outlast most of the 20 year olds kids but I am slowing down.

Damn I thought you were like 25!!

 

[min0 lee]

Damn I thought you were like 25!!

Why? Because I am so immature?

 

[Randy]

Could our mighty GR have been wrong? No....!

It's like bringing a gun to a fist fight. Is there any advantage there?

I voted no, clearly Bonds was a phenomenal player before steriod use. But I do understand the reasoning for considering the Asterick.

Take a look at his stats pre 2000 and post 2000 quite a remarable difference

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=111188&statType=1

Pre 2000 Avg HR per Season 32
Post 200 Avg HR per Season 52

Pre OB% 407
Post OB% 535

Pre Slug% 561
Post Slug% 611

Pre Bat avg .288
Post Bat avg .341

Obviously Bonds has quite a remarkable improvement to his preformance since 2000, in which it would seem quite obvious Steriods have enhanced his natural abilities. Let alone the Fact that he should be on the down side of his career not the upswing at the age of 40.

It is foolish to think that steriods have not helped him get the single season record, nor more than likely the Career HR record. No doubt he has amazing Hand-eye coordination, why else would he be in the major leagues? Hitting a ball is a matter of hundreths of second for reaction time. Increased strenght allows one to get the back through the hitting area at a quicker rate, giving Bonds an opportunity to make better contact with the ball.

However, I voted no, because there are always going to be circumstances that could have impacted ones performance. He is a great athlete and nothing could take away from that, steroids or no steroids.

 

[Randy]

Why? Because I am so immature?

No, cause you still have milk all around your mouth like a baby

 

[min0 lee]

No, cause you still have milk around all around your mouth like a baby

ouch.

 

[Randy]

 

[gr81]

why are you even responding to me, I thought you had me on ignore, so ignore me. jesus your a pathetic blowhard. Stop mentioning my name in your posts, its that simple. I don't post at you, don't post at me. why is that hard to understand?

 

[Randy]

Was that GR trying to murmur something again

 

[Flex]

It's against league rules...period.

Um, no it wasn't (until this past year).

and i love how all of a sudden its SUCH a big issue, when its OBVIOUS people have been juicin for years.

its all a matter of opinion whether steroids help you hit more HR's, and i'm not changing mine that they don't.

Look at Vlad Guerrero. you think he juices? i think not.

 

[Flex]

Was that GR trying to murmur something again

damn you must be bored

 

[Flex]

I don't post at you, don't post at me. why is that hard to understand?

why not do this^? If you have him on ignore, then IGNORE him

Gr's actually a good buddy of mine. Leave the fuckin' kid alone

 

[Randy]

Flex,

GR may be a good buddy to you, but to me my only experiences from him are derogatory statements launched against me and others. I even tried a few times to hold up a white flag and attempt a peace treaty, but he insisted on insulting me and others. So based on my 100 percent acuracy of accounts with GR, when I see an ignored post from him I am almost certain he is launching another insult.

Now I have many friends on the forum too Flex, but if they made a point to going around insulting other members and making a habit of showing up only to put others down, then even though they may be friends I would certainly leave them to get what they deserve. Why the hell would I spend my time defending them? Now I suggest you look back at his first post #138. There he starts out by calling everyone Ignorant Morons. Now friend or not Flex, I'm sick of his bullshit. If those are the friends you choose to associate with well that is your business. But I would recommend a better choice of friend. But I guess if he's not insulting you, then you can deal with him.

 

[Flex]

Flex,

GR may be a good buddy to you, but to me my only experiences from him are derogatory statements launched against me and others. I even tried a few times to hold up a white flag and attempt a peace treaty, but he insisted on insulting me and others. So based on my 100 percent acuracy of accounts with GR, when I see an ignored post from him I am almost certain he is launching another insult.

Now I have many friends on the forum too Flex, but if they made a point to going around insulting other members and making a habit of showing up only to put others down, then even though they may be friends I would certainly leave them to get what they deserve. Why the hell would I spend my time defending them? Now I suggest you look back at his first post #138. There he starts out by calling everyone Ignorant Morons. Now friend or not Flex, I'm sick of his bullshit. If those are the friends you choose to associate with well that is your business. But I would recommend a better choice of friend. But I guess if he's not insulting you, then you can deal with him.

The reason he said what he said, in this thread in particular, is b/c society knows little-to-nothing about steriods, and we both are sick of it, and sick of defending it, that's all. We are both very passionate about things in our lives, so when something stupid like "steriods made Bonds hit 73 HR's comes up", and it's made into the biggest issue ever, we are sick and tired of hearing the same shit, when people have no clue.

I understand you two may not get along. So if you're gonna ignore him, then DO IT. Don't worry about what he posts. But damn man, it seems alls you do is antagonize him. That's the WHOLE reason we had that arguement back then, and that's the whole reason you and Chris Rock had an arguement. You say you're gonna ignore, but you KEEP on sayin' shit. do us a favor and follow through on the IGNORE part when you say "i'm ignoring you". it does NO good to keep on postin'.

 

[Flex]

My boy Mike posted this on another forum. It's his view on the whole issue. Notice the 2nd paragraph. he makes a great point....

"this how i feel on the topic. Athletes are getting paid millions of dollars to play at the best of their ability, and doing anything to maximize that ability as well as health seems worth while. Lets not forget, roids help players heal from injuries, as well as a whole plethera of other things. Saying they merely make someone "bigger" or "stronger" is not the whole deal.

Do i blame these athletes? No. Should they have to use? No. The people to blame are us. The members of this society. We want bigger guys on the football field. We wanted faster stronger athletes so we can see those big hits on the highlight reels. We want to see barry hit 50 homeruns in a season. It generates an astonishing amount of revenue, and the fact of the matter is that sports would probably not be as exciting without steriods. It basically all comes down to money.

Once in awhile these sports will catch an athlete, and expose them. They will make an example out of them, and that will be it. All it does is show people that they "care," when in actuality they probably could give two shits.

So many people use in professional sports that its almost a given that an athlete has to use in order to level the playing field. Its a shame that is what has happened, but our materialistic greed-filled society can't do without it. "

 

[King Silverback]

My boy Mike posted this on another forum. It's his view on the whole issue. Notice the 2nd paragraph. he makes a great point....

"this how i feel on the topic. Athletes are getting paid millions of dollars to play at the best of their ability, and doing anything to maximize that ability as well as health seems worth while. Lets not forget, roids help players heal from injuries, as well as a whole plethera of other things. Saying they merely make someone "bigger" or "stronger" is not the whole deal.

Do i blame these athletes? No. Should they have to use? No. The people to blame are us. The members of this society. We want bigger guys on the football field. We wanted faster stronger athletes so we can see those big hits on the highlight reels. We want to see barry hit 50 homeruns in a season. It generates an astonishing amount of revenue, and the fact of the matter is that sports would probably not be as exciting without steriods. It basically all comes down to money.

Once in awhile these sports will catch an athlete, and expose them. They will make an example out of them, and that will be it. All it does is show people that they "care," when in actuality they probably could give two shits.

So many people use in professional sports that its almost a given that an athlete has to use in order to level the playing field. Its a shame that is what has happened, but our materialistic greed-filled society can't do without it. "

Never really thought about it that way, but we DO pay to be entertained!!!

 

[ZECH]

Steriods give him a big advantage. Look how JG dropped off. Bonds will do the same thing!

 

[Randy]

People don't have to be steroid users to be able to make educated judgements on the topic. Just because people don't study steroids in depth doesn't mean they are in the dark. One doesn't need to know the entire scientific details about steroids to know they greatly add strength and advantage to most anyone in sports. Does it make them hit home runs, of course not, but as I said before if you take a group of identically equally skilled batters in the top of their league and add steroids to half of them, who will hit the most home runs. Now you can make up fairy tales, but the truth to me and most people is pretty obvious.

As for GR, again I do have him on ignore and I do my best to ignore him. But as I mentioned when I see his post when revealed by quote or otherwise and it is another derogatory comment...I have just as much right to free speech as this dickhead does with his comments. So I would appreciate it Flex, if you mind your own business. I appreciate he is your friend, but again if he's going to insult others, then its an open game my friend. I don't care if he or you are tired of people posting about steroids. People post about whatever they like here my friend, it's an open forum. That doesn't mean they deserve to be insulted for their opinions. That's bullshit period!

As for ChrisROCK...that was a personal matter between the 2 of us that we worked out.. I don't think that can of worms needs to be opened here.. Again it's a resolved matter.

In conclusion here... I have nothing against GR, never have and mentioned that numerous times. If he can grow up and learn that he doesn't need to insult people to voice his concern or point then I would say nothing to him what-so-ever Flex.

The reason he said what he said, in this thread in particular, is b/c society knows little-to-nothing about steriods, and we both are sick of it, and sick of defending it, that's all. We are both very passionate about things in our lives, so when something stupid like "steriods made Bonds hit 73 HR's comes up", and it's made into the biggest issue ever, we are sick and tired of hearing the same shit, when people have no clue.


I understand you two may not get along. So if you're gonna ignore him, then DO IT. Don't worry about what he posts. But damn man, it seems alls you do is antagonize him. That's the WHOLE reason we had that arguement back then, and that's the whole reason you and Chris Rock had an arguement. You say you're gonna ignore, but you KEEP on sayin' shit. do us a favor and follow through on the IGNORE part when you say "i'm ignoring you". it does NO good to keep on postin'.

 

[Ralph Wiggum]

My boy Mike posted this on another forum. It's his view on the whole issue. Notice the 2nd paragraph. he makes a great point....

"this how i feel on the topic. Athletes are getting paid millions of dollars to play at the best of their ability, and doing anything to maximize that ability as well as health seems worth while. Lets not forget, roids help players heal from injuries, as well as a whole plethera of other things. Saying they merely make someone "bigger" or "stronger" is not the whole deal.

Do i blame these athletes? No. Should they have to use? No. The people to blame are us. The members of this society. We want bigger guys on the football field. We wanted faster stronger athletes so we can see those big hits on the highlight reels. We want to see barry hit 50 homeruns in a season. It generates an astonishing amount of revenue, and the fact of the matter is that sports would probably not be as exciting without steriods. It basically all comes down to money.

Once in awhile these sports will catch an athlete, and expose them. They will make an example out of them, and that will be it. All it does is show people that they "care," when in actuality they probably could give two shits.

So many people use in professional sports that its almost a given that an athlete has to use in order to level the playing field. Its a shame that is what has happened, but our materialistic greed-filled society can't do without it. "

I totally agree with this post. Let's imagine, that if the media didn't bring up suspicion of steriod use in baseball, do you think Bud Selig would have implemented a steriod-ban this year? awwwwww, no. Why, cause Barry Bonds and all the other players were bringing people back to the game. So IMO, MLB deserves all the negative press that it is receiving right now.

 

[Flex]

People don't have to be steroid users to be able to make educated judgements on the topic.

From what i remember your "educated judgement" on steroids was that "they are harmful because everyone knows they are". THAT'S the kind of stupid bullshit we are sick and tired of hearing.

but the truth to me and most people is pretty obvious.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. The "truth" that you see on this week's 20/20 or read in some magazine. See, the "truth" ISNT obvious. the truth ISNT what the you THINK you know.

As for GR, again I do have him on ignore and I do my best to ignore him.

Um, no you don't :

I have just as much right to free speech as this dickhead does with his comments.

If he can grow up

I don't care if he or you are tired of people posting about steroids. People post about whatever they like here my friend, it's an open forum. That doesn't mean they deserve to be insulted for their opinions.

I realize people post whatever they want. Feel free to post your opinion on what you THINK is the best exercize for chest or who you THINK the best team in football is.
BUT, Once again, opinion is DIFFERENT than fact though. So whether you THINK steroids do/don't do something is COMPLETELY different than if they ACTUALLY do.

See, i'm sick and tired of explaining the SAME shit OVER AND OVER. THATS why gr81 dislikes you. its a neverending bullshit fest that keeps going back and forth.

After this, i'm out. You can keep on making ignorant statements about steriods (you saying "i think steroids help athletes" is one thing, that's ok. but you saying "steroids are harmful b/c we all know they are" is ridiculous). You can keep on bickering every time he posts.
I'm just tired of reading it, as i'm sure many others are too, sounds like Johnnnnnnnnnnny.

 

[min0 lee]

THATS why gr81 dislikes you

I don't think he likes anyone. I once asked a question in a thread under my first real name and he just went ballistek on me, He tore me up a new asshole.

 

[Flex]

I don't think he likes anyone. I once asked a question in a thread under my first real name and he just went ballistek on me, He tore me up a new asshole.

Of course i can't speak for him, but i doubt he dislikes you, unless there's a reason for it.

You gotta understand, he, like I, is very passionate about things. So it may seem like he's comin' across aggressive or whatever. It just that he takes his shit very seriously. I talk to him on the phone, he's a real nice guy.

 

[gr81]

I don't think he likes anyone. I once asked a question in a thread under my first real name and he just went ballistek on me, He tore me up a new asshole.

what was your original name? I am curious. oh and my bad, what was I yelling about. Flex is right, I get worked up when people start misrepresenting thinsg that I am passionate about, its very frustrating. Don't take it personal man

 

[Dale Mabry]

Steriods give him a big advantage. Look how JG dropped off. Bonds will do the same thing!

I have no idea how he lost all of what he had gained with what we know about PCT these days. I think the inuries did him more bad than the juice and it is those injuries that are the reason he sucks ass now. Whether or not those steroids are the reason he got the injuries I will never know.

 

[Flex]

Steriods give him a big advantage. Look how JG dropped off. Bonds will do the same thing!

If you think Giambi lost almost 100 pts on his BA b/c he stopped taking steroids you are

 

[DFINEST]

If you think Giambi lost almost 100 pts on his BA b/c he stopped taking steroids you are

Amen....

As far as aging ball players losing the ability
to compete as they age, does anyone remember the age
of the OLDEST rookie of the year in MLB.....

Satchel Paige at age 42, I guess he was on the juice as well

 

[tucker01]

Actually he was the oldest rookie in Baseball

The oldest rookie of the year was Sam Jethone of Boston in 1950 at 32 yo 286 days

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/11/06/sasaki_roy_ap/

Even if he did win rookie of the year it would be a fair comparison to this scenario. He was an elite pitcher in the Negro Leagues for many years before, and wasn't allowed to picther in the Majors until sometime later. almost any young Rookie in the league will not come in posting hall of fame numbers until they mature.

Bonds Numbers have gone through the roof since 2000, age 37-40 not exactly the prime of his career... Things that make you go hmmmm.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/s...1188&statType=1

Pre 2000 Avg HR per Season 32
Post 200 Avg HR per Season 52

Pre OB% 407
Post OB% 535

Pre Slug% 561
Post Slug% 611

Pre Bat avg .288
Post Bat avg .341