Should Christians support Obama?

[bandaidwoman]

You're not a Christian if you believe that those from other religions aren't going to hell.
The bible is very clear that regardless of how great of a person you are, if you don't believe that Jesus is the son of god, you're going to burn in hell for eternity.

Quakers have never believed that, when I used to attend quaker meetings they used jesus as a guiding light for how we conduct our lives , but he is not the only way to salvation , so ghandi, buddah,etc. made it to heaven. They believe god is the center of the wheel and all religions are the spokes of that wheel. So you can see why between this belief, their pacifism, their belief in sexual equality and the need to abolish slavery made them the most radical and feared sect for a long time in our history.

 

[withoutrulers]

ok so one time I like found this golden disc with fancy writing on it, and only i could read and stuff......

 

[jay_steel]

Religious beliefs and politics should be separated. I have no issues with abortion or gay marriage it is their choice what they do and my opinion should not impact there lives. Gay marriage does not effect my wife and I or the economy. Every one should have the right to marry by the state or gov't to get benefits for there partners. To me its not fair for them not to be treated equally and have medical coverage and ect. I was 100% against gay marriage until I meet a good friend of mine who is a lesbian and married. My beliefs should not impact her happiness

Also it was not log ago where being black was considered inpure and a sin. So religion it self to me is an abomination. I believe in God, but would never trust another man to preach his word and tell me how to live.

I want a president that does the right thing for the people and not for their personal gains. That looks at the entire American population and not as a diversity group or rich or poor. Some one that says get the hell off welfare, but at the same time help that blue collar working class guy that lost his job still pay his bills and get back on his feet. Enough is a enough period stop paying for drugs abusers next fix and lets toughen this shit up.

 

[bandaidwoman]

I can't understand why the greatest archeological find of all tiime would be "hidden" by the mormon church and not relinguished to the world for all to see ( these golden tablets that belonged to jesus when he came here).

 

[bandaidwoman]

To me its not fair for them not to be treated equally and have medical coverage and ect. I was 100% against gay marriage until I meet a good friend of mine who is a lesbian and married. .

This is the crux for why they are fighting for legal marriages.

This is the ony 1st world country that ties your health insurance coverage to your spouse or workplace. With more and more businesses opting out of insurance coverage due to cost ( it is my second highest overhead for my business), you now have to depend on a spouse. This is a fundamental right they want desperatly , now if we had universal or single payer healt care, I'll bet the gays would not be so desperate to get "legally" married.

This country is different from Iran because it's President does not respect any religious book or even his own religion. It's why Nixon defied Quaker pacifism and bombed the hell out of Cambodia and Kennedy did not obey the "Pope" for any of his decision making. The constitution does not mention Jesus anywhere, it was to protect everyone , it did not say except the gays.....

 

[Arnold]

Religious beliefs and politics should be separated.

x2

 

[troubador]

I tell all my homosexuals to become a quaker, they have been conducting marriage ceremonies for gays since I was a kid ( my dad and grandparents were quaker ) and they don't believe Jesus ever condemned mutual love and monogomy even among homosexuals. Old testament laws were nullified by Jesus...

That's true but you have to do some intricate tip toeing to say that. I think Jesus did reaffirm the idea that marriage is between a man and woman.

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

And yes, I'm aware that technically this doesn't grammatically address homosexuality but the fact that he specifies 'male and female' seems to allude to it.

And the new testament does speak about homosexuality as a sin:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. [SUP]27 [/SUP]In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Like I said before, personally I don't see a valid reason why homos can't get married but I also believe the bible does support Christians thinking homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is a sin. That's of course assuming the bible isn't a make believe story.

 

[troubador]

Gay marriage does not effect my wife and I or the economy.

What evidence do you base this assertion on?

 

[DOMS]

I have no issues with abortion or gay marriage it is their choice what they do and my opinion should not impact there lives.

I have an issue with abortion. I think the man should have the right to make the call too. Just the woman should only be the one that decides if the man should be turned into some sort of endured servant?

 

[withoutrulers]

I think gays should be able to get abortions too.

 

[troubador]

I think gays should be able to get abortions too.

Should you be able to abort gay babies? What if there was a test and the doctor was like 'Your baby tested positive for gayness'; would you be all like 'Hell no, abort that shit. There'll be no Liza Minneli played in this house'?

 

[exphys88]

That's true but you have to do some intricate tip toeing to say that. I think Jesus did reaffirm the idea that marriage is between a man and woman.

And yes, I'm aware that technically this doesn't grammatically address homosexuality but the fact that he specifies 'male and female' seems to allude to it.

And the new testament does speak about homosexuality as a sin:



Like I said before, personally I don't see a valid reason why homos can't get married but I also believe the bible does support Christians thinking homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is a sin. That's of course assuming the bible isn't a make believe story.

I agree. I think too many Christians create their own version of Christianity to fit their own needs. When they have a hard time swallowing the idea that someone like Gandhi is in hell and hitler may be in heaven, they rewrite what the bible says.

 

[DOMS]

Should you be able to abort gay babies? What if there was a test and the doctor was like 'Your baby tested positive for gayness'; would you be all like 'Hell no, abort that shit. There'll be no Liza Minneli played in this house'?

Your though falls under this:

Liberals: open and tolerate of all ideas...until you say something they don't like, even if it's factual.

 

[bandaidwoman]

That's true but you have to do some intricate tip toeing to say that. I think Jesus did reaffirm the idea that marriage is between a man and woman.

And yes, I'm aware that technically this doesn't grammatically address homosexuality but the fact that he specifies 'male and female' seems to allude to it.

And the new testament does speak about homosexuality as a sin:



Like I said before, personally I don't see a valid reason why homos can't get married but I also believe the bible does support Christians thinking homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is a sin. That's of course assuming the bible isn't a make believe story.

It is based on interpretation but what's interesting about us quakers , we are for the most part, like both my grandparents who were both chemists, mathmaticians etc very very educated ( we believe education frees the mind) and many were linguists. Our freindship circle had ancient linguists and greek specialists, They read the new testament in greek and only the book of mathew was in hebrew, and they could not find it. They showed me how the sodom and gomorra were also misintreretted about homosexuality when translated to latin and english, which is why the jews for the most part dont' give a damn like most christians. You really should check them out, you would be amazed how many speak multiple languages like myself or know how to read the bible in its original language. The only other sect that comes close to the percentage that can read in the ancient tongue of the bible are the jews, and jesuit priests...

 

[bandaidwoman]

In other words, quakers try not to take the bible literally or else we would still be marrying our daughters off at 11. It is all up to interpretation, there were members who believed it was wrong argued it and others who said it was never explicitly said and argued it, but we allowed for differences, which is why we have never been considered dogmatic...of course that also made quakers dangerous...

 

[bandaidwoman]

THE SOCIETY OF FRIENDS (QUAKERS) AND HOMOSEXUALITY

here you can see quakers disagree among themselves ( civilly) but I like how one quaker pointed out that even though the bible condones and supports slavery as well as denial of women in clergy, doesn't mean Jesus wouldn't have found it wrong. In other words, to take the bible as a literal word of God and not the spirit of jesus is dangerous and not good for humanity. So you see why they were villified , and even to this day....

 

[charley]

still...............

 

[jay_steel]

What evidence do you base this assertion on?

Ok, a gay couple is married by state, they do not qualify for most medical benefits. Some companies will allow domestic partners where others will not. For example the military. I will use both of us as an example who I presume you are straight so no offence please. We are married or a couple, and I work and have great medical, but you can not. You go out and get injured and severely hurt and puts us in further debt. We can not afford to pay medical bills ect or we would have go to a government assisted health care and have them pay the majority of the bill which puts that money else where.

I guess it does effect it but in a positive way.

if it does effect it negatively then no one should get married and pay higher tax rates, ect

And

Gay marriage does not effect the way I live my life. Yes, I will raise my kids on the values of man and wife, but I will also raise them that I served my country and scarified to ensure every one has the right to live they way they choice as long as it is ethically.

 

[jagbender]

Famous quote: Have you ever taken a biology class.


This thread shows why congress and the church are sseparated. There have been so may interpretations of the bible, hince the forming of separate denominations as baptist, Methodist, pPentecostals etc... Where in the bible do you find Jesus or the bible in general specify any of the above to be? This my brothers is the reason American Christians are so hated by everyone world wide. Because they separate themselves from other "believers", fellow Christians because of a diffent theology on the way to heaven. Something I believe Christ himself would openly rebuke. As all denominations that are known are man made from their own interpretation of the bible and in a way can be looked at what he hated most, Pharisees and Sadducees. I hate getting into God debates, especially prove he is real ones. As folks have already made up their minds what they are going to believe regardless of what is shown through text. People want to see physical proof and even Christ said, " blessed are those who have not seen, but believe". So regardless of what any scholar "MAN" says these days, unless you have proof then folks just aren't going to believe. The only physical sign they will see, is us who call ourselves Christians acting as Christ would and as a whole in America are doing a terrible job. Again Jesus would openly rebuke for the way we are alllllllll acting as he was of love, compassion, forgiveness, healing, relationship/communion and hated the thing I hate to is religion. As religion isn't a faith or an act, but a belief in with all the knowledge you could possibly read and be driven by man. His followers had relationship, which is everything that I described Christ above. Once you have all that then you will know who God is as you know who he is.

The gay issue will never be won in this day in time because folks are way more liberal than they were 50-100 years ago. However from a Christian perspective, I don't hate them or judge them because I am not God, but I don't agree with or like what they do, but would be a friend and am a friend to me of them showing them love. That is all we can do as the "so called believers".

Excellent post

 

[jagbender]

Christians don't claim to know the truth? You're kidding right? It's the non religious folks that claim to not know, we have no problem saying that we don't know, unlike religious folks who make up ridiculous stories about the origin of earth. Here is the creation story in a nutshell:

A magical god creates a man, then takes his rib and makes a woman. They decide to eat the magical fruit at the advice of the magical talking snake, and are suddenly ashamed of being naked.
They decide to have kids, their 2 sons then have sex w their mother do she can give birth to their wives. They then screw their sisters and so on and so on.
Then there's a big flood and all of the dinosaurs perish, even the ones that live in the ocean. The animals that are on another continent have to swim across oceans to catch a ride on this boat so they won't drown in the flood.
Makes perfect sense.

Faith: the license that religious folks give each other to believe the dumbest things.

The Bible states tht they had Sons and Daughters.
enesis 5:4New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters.

Also Adam and Eve were geneically perfect, hence there was no need to have a "law" agains having sex with your sister.

Since there were no Genetic defects people lived 800 years.

There are loaws today about incenst correct? WHY? because of genetic mutations.

Also Evolution is based on the ADDITION of DNA to a genetic profile

The Bible shows that changes occur from Natural selection of DNA

Here is an interesting book
Amazon.com: The Foundations: One Blood, One Race: Ken Ham: Movies & TV

 

[exphys88]

Right... They lived for 800 years, and had sex w their sisters.

Where are genetics mentioned in the bible? Where does it say they were genetically perfect? This is a manipulation of the facts to fit the bible.

We also know that the sun is older than the earth, but the bible claims that the earth was created first.

If the universe is only 6000 years old, there would be many stars in which the light couldn't have reached earth yet, but we know of many stars that are further than 6000 light years away and we can see them.

 

[heavyiron]

In the beginning God created the light. Then he created the light holders.

It's in Genesis 1:3 that God creates light (Hebrew 'owr meaning illumination as opposed to ma'owr as in Genesis 1:14 which means luminary or light holder).

Seems like the creation account commonly illustrates a creating of mature (older looking) plants, animals trees, etc. Adam and Eve were apparently "old" enough to procreate even though they were only a day old. Trees apparently had fruit on them even thought they were new.

I'm not taking sides I just read Genesis with this in mind.
​

 

[exphys88]

I'm still trying to figure out who created god. Something doesn't come out of nothing.

 

[btex34n88]

I disagree that gays are discriminated against. They want special treatment and special rights. It's discrimination against straight people. For example, they can have a gay pride parade and celebrate their "colors," but would it be okay if they we held a "straight parade." Of course not, that's hateful and full of bigotry. The left have always shown a fucked up hypocritcal agenda, and Barack Obama is the epitome of a hypocrite.

Spot on! 100% agree with you

 

[DOMS]

I'm still trying to figure out who created god. Something doesn't come out of nothing.

There are plenty of arguments one could make against religion, and this isn't one. After all, who did create everything it not a god?

 

[bandaidwoman]

Something doesn't come out of nothing.

Actually it can, thanks to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, it has also been experimentally proven, the most famous is the Casimir effect.

 

[exphys88]

There are plenty of arguments one could make against religion, and this isn't one. After all, who did create everything it not a god?

The point is that nobody knows, and nobody should claim to.

 

[heavyiron]

I'm still trying to figure out who created god. Something doesn't come out of nothing.

Its a hard concept to imagine. I have a very hard time understanding eternity. Its difficult for me to imagine a being that has always existed. I'm not sure our natural laws can be applied to the supernatural. The more I studied this stuff the more questions I have. Faith is a very tricky thing.
'

 

[exphys88]

Actually it can, thanks to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, it has also been experimentally proven, the most famous is the Casimir effect.

That is beyond my education.
I was being sarcastic and poking fun at the religious who use that argument to try and prove that we had to have been created by a god. Which I'm sure you gathered.

 

[jagbender]

has anyone else thought if the Universe is infinatly large, could the universe be infinatly smaller?