Smith Machine.....

[boxingorilla]

Consider me old school but I have avoided the smith machine up until this last week...and I have no idea why! I love this thing, but I have to ask- does anyone know how much weight it "takes off" the lift? I can lift considerably more, especially my inclined bench on the smith, then just normal inclined bp.

 

[Marat]

I have avoided the smith machine up until this last week...and I have no idea why! I love this thing

Neither do I but I can tell you that you were a better man a week ago

 

[boxingorilla]

Neither do I but I can tell you that you were a better man a week ago

Real helpful

 

[MDR]

Neither do I but I can tell you that you were a better man a week ago

I think he just meant that free weights are the better option. There is a reason you can do more weight with the Smith. With free weights you will gain size and strength much quicker.

 

[Flathead]

Neither do I but I can tell you that you were a better man a week ago

Real helpful

We've had this debate a 100x & the general consensus is "the Smith Machine is nothing but a crutch". The only way you could figure the delta between smith versus free weight would be to perform a 1RM on each.

 

[boxingorilla]

I think he just meant that free weights are the better option. There is a reason you can do more weight with the Smith. With free weights you will gain size and strength much quicker.

Yes, this is my point, my question still remains-how much weight is taken off by using a smith machine, in other words does anyone know their max bench on the bp and their max on the smith? the difference of the two would give me an idea of the weight taken off.

 

[boxingorilla]

We've had this debate a 100x & the general consensus is "the Smith Machine is nothing but a crutch". The only way you could figure the delta between smith versus free weight would be to perform a 1RM on each.

 

[LAM]

Yes, this is my point, my question still remains-how much weight is taken off by using a smith machine, in other words does anyone know their max bench on the bp and their max on the smith? the difference of the two would give me an idea of the weight taken off.

there are many manufactures of them and they are all slightly different. with no real standard I doubt there would be any accurate conversion of weight from free weight to smith

machines will always be inferior to free weights because they do not move in all of the planes and axes of movement of the human body.

machines are best used to supplement a free weight based training program

 

[Marat]

I think he just meant that free weights are the better option. There is a reason you can do more weight with the Smith. With free weights you will gain size and strength much quicker.

Thanks MDR, that's precisely what I meant.

Boxingorilla, there probably isn't a published/accepted conversion for predicting the load when going from a Smith to a bench and vice versa.

The purpose of my post was to illustrate that you are far better served sticking with your previous old school principles.

 

[BigBoiH]

I was like you at one point and time. I started to use the smith in replace of the power rack because they were full at the gym one time. After a month of using it I injured my back squatting with the machine. Definetly stay away if you know whats good for you.

 

[MDR]

Yes, this is my point, my question still remains-how much weight is taken off by using a smith machine, in other words does anyone know their max bench on the bp and their max on the smith? the difference of the two would give me an idea of the weight taken off.

I think Flathead came up with the best solution. Do a 1rep max with free weight flat bench and with the Smith machine, and you will have an idea of how much the Smith is taking off. Best if you did this yourself, because there are many manufacturers out there, and the Smith machine at my gym might be very different from yours. Hope this is helpful.

 

[gtbmed]

Why did anyone ever invent that thing in the first place? It's amazing that it actually caught on, there must be a lot of people with very little knowledge of biomechanics who buy fitness equipment...

 

[Marat]

Why did anyone ever invent that thing in the first place?

It's expensive as hell and Mr. Smith probably foresaw that every gym would order them in triplicate.

 

[Life]

It would be an easy problem to solve for how much weight the smith is taking off, you'd just need the angle that its at. You would have an x and y equation is all. I'm not exactly sure what you guys mean by taking the weight off though Smith might be a crutch but sometimes a crutch is a good idea when safety is involved. If it was a matter of you benching heavy on a flat bench without a spotter vs. heavy on the smith I'd much rather see you on the smith. Or you could do dumbbells

If its an ~80 degree angle and you have 800lbs on then that would be 470lbs in the y and 647lbs in the x. y being vertical and x being horizontal. So you'd be doing somewhere around 650lbs. Been a while since I did dynamics and I did that in my head so it might be wrong if someone wants to actually know I can model it...

 

[LAM]

It would be an easy problem to solve for how much weight the smith is taking off, you'd just need the angle that its at. You would have an x and y equation is all. I'm not exactly sure what you guys mean by taking the weight off though Smith might be a crutch but sometimes a crutch is a good idea when safety is involved. If it was a matter of you benching heavy on a flat bench without a spotter vs. heavy on the smith I'd much rather see you on the smith. Or you could do dumbbells

If its an ~80 degree angle and you have 800lbs on then that would be 470lbs in the y and 647lbs in the x. y being vertical and x being horizontal. So you'd be doing somewhere around 650lbs. Been a while since I did dynamics and I did that in my head so it might be wrong if someone wants to actually know I can model it...

what about the friction? for me the main problem with smith benching is that for many the bench press is not a totally linear movement. and with the smith it forces you into a fixed pattern of movement

 

[gtbmed]

Smith machine = fixed movement pattern

How many people do you think have bodies that allow them to lift along that exact plane of motion? If you don't have a spotter then don't lift a weight that requires one. It's that simple really.

And no, it's not just as simple as doing some vector calculations. A weight supported at the ends is a hell of a lot easier to lift than a weight that needs to be balanced. That's why you see guys dominate the lat pulldown machine but they can't do a single chinup. I find that especially hilarious.

 

[Life]

what about the friction? for me the main problem with smith benching is that for many the bench press is not a totally linear movement. and with the smith it forces you into a fixed pattern of movement

How much of a friction force do you want to add? Honestly unless the smith is old you can pretty much assume there is no friction for the amount of friction it adds. I can throw one from the bottom to the top so I didn't include friction. Do you want to say the cfc. of kinetic friction is .1? (Min is 0 max is 1) if so then thats 64.7lbs + 647 ~ 738lbs which is probably more accurate.

 

[stylus187]

Yes, this is my point, my question still remains-how much weight is taken off by using a smith machine, in other words does anyone know their max bench on the bp and their max on the smith? the difference of the two would give me an idea of the weight taken off.

I can train a little safer and heavier with the smith machine. I like my free weights ofcourse, but honestly I get a better burn and focused pump on my targeted muscle, while using the smith. I do believe you can a little more weight up on the smith, but does it really matter? If you are gonna use the smith dont discard your free bench. I like the smith machine for doing negative as I mentioned earlier I get an awesome pump and burn from doing a few more controlled reps, due to the safety factor of the smith. Just my opinion. stylus 187

 

[200+]

I can train a little safer and heavier with the smith machine. I like my free weights ofcourse, but honestly I get a better burn and focused pump on my targeted muscle, while using the smith. I do believe you can a little more weight up on the smith, but does it really matter? If you are gonna use the smith dont discard your free bench. I like the smith machine for doing negative as I mentioned earlier I get an awesome pump and burn from doing a few more controlled reps, due to the safety factor of the smith. Just my opinion. stylus 187

I think the "safety" is an illusion

 

[ScorpionKing]

I like working out on my smith rack/machine. I got a bodysolid smith rack and a parabody smith rack. I got these for my home gym. I work out alone so for safety reasons I need these. I do have a free weight bench for when I have a buddy over to spot. The body sold smith machine also has 2 safety are attachments that latch on the front of the rack for doing free weight bench presses. I posted pics awhile back of my gym that show my smith racks. Post name: MY Home Gym.

 

[gtbmed]

That's one of the reasons why I like O lifting - no spotter required. If you can't make a weight, you just drop it and walk away. Of course you have to learn how to bail out, but still...

 

[MDR]

I've mentioned this before on this site, so forgive me for being redundant. The Smith machine was very helpful when I was returning to the gym after lower back surgery. As soon as possible, I did move to free weights. I liked the Smith during this rehab phase, but getting away from it as quickly as I could was always the goal.

 

[OTG85]

I use the smith machine for all bench pressing movements.I had a shoulder injury tho so I have a excuse.But you can build muscle still on a smith machine but if you can use free weights no excuse.

 

[damus]

Fair enough it forces you to push in a fixed linear pattern of movement therefore removing the use of stabalizers, which equals less gains at the equivalent amount of weight used on a free barbell.....but is the smith machine actually damaging to you, apart from giving you the illusion that you can lift more than in reality.

The majority of my chest workouts is with dumbells, but i do use the machine when doing heavy squats.

 

[200+]

Fair enough it forces you to push in a fixed linear pattern of movement therefore removing the use of stabalizers, which equals less gains at the equivalent amount of weight used on a free barbell.....but is the smith machine actually damaging to you, apart from giving you the illusion that you can lift more than in reality.

The majority of my chest workouts is with dumbells, but i do use the machine when doing heavy squats.

From what I have read, there is a possibility of shearing of the knees when you use the smith doing squats. Maybe you can eliminate this on the smith with perfect form?...

 

[damus]

Shit...actually ive just done some research and found squats using a smith machine IS bad for numerous reasons. The only reason i used the smith was because both my home gym and university gym doesnt have a squat rack. I guess i'll just stick to deadlifts for now, and thank god i dont have any knee/back problems.

 

[gtbmed]

1) learn cleans
2) clean weight
3) front squat

 

[fufu]

Apples and oranges.

 

[LAM]

I think it's safe to say that all machines force us to use fixed patterns of movement and is one of the main reasons why they should be used to supplement free weights. pattern overload is one reason not to have a machine based workout if maximum strength or muscular development is the main goal.

 

[OTG85]

I think it's safe to say that all machines force us to use fixed patterns of movement and is one of the main reasons why they should be used to supplement free weights. pattern overload is one reason not to have a machine based workout if maximum strength or muscular development is the main goal.

true,Soon as my shoulder 100% bye bye smith machine