Steroids?

[Kenny Croxdale]

Spark,

Cutting To The Chase

Even you concede that the fact that, "Maybe steroids didnt CAUSE all my maladies..."

"If you need my doctor's notes, you need my paystubs from where I missed work, you need the medication list I was on before?"

Yes, I would like to see your doctors notes as well as the medicatin list you were on before. So, I accept your offer of providing them.

Please do so, other wised, it all hearsay on your part.

Reiterate

Let me reiterate, that not teen should take anatolics. As Dr Norm Fost (an author on anabolics) stated.

"Anyone giving teens anabolics should be hung and then given a fair trial.'

Lyle Alzado Syndrome

Spark you suffer from "Lyle Alzado Syndrome". You believe that all you want to believe all of your maladies are from taking anabolics. Which is not the case.

"....you should know what causes my body to break down mwy not cause everyone's body to breakdown."

This statement indicates that you had an exhisting condition that anablolics MAY have contributed to. However, unless you have a crystal ball, there is not way of knowing.

Steriods may have to some extent contributed to your problem. However, you health issues a time bomb in place waiting to go off.

Most likely something else would have triggered your health issues at some point. Thus, your biggest problem was/is poor genetics.

With that said, you can blame your parents, as well.

Anabolic Specialsit

Dr Robert Kerr (Anabolic Specialist)

Dr Robert Kerr spent a couple of decades prescribing anabolics. Kerr wrote a book on it. As per Kerr, none of his patients had any health issues when they followed his protocol.

Kerr worked with and "tracked" thousands.

I corrosponed back with Kerr in the 1980s and purchased his book.

Dr Norm Fost

Dr Norm Fost is another anabolic specialist. I have corresponded with Fost. Fost also provided me with some of his research articles.

"I am a walking testimony bro."

A walking tesatimony to what? Poor genetics? Possibly overdosaing and staying on cycles too long? Being a stupid teenager?

With that thought in mind, let's address...

Dosage, Stacks and Cycle

Since you have not provided us with any information on dosage, stacking or cycles; it unclear what you were doing.

"The proper thing would have been to scsre the 16 year old kid along with me instead of trying to make my health issues nonrelated to juice."

The proper thing is to educate, rather than use scare tactics.

Scape Goat

You want to blame everything on one thing. Unfortunate, there it always more than one thing that contributes to any problem.

Step back and think about your post again, now that kid thinks he wont get high cholesterol, an enlarged heart or high blood pressure from juice.

Spark Poster Child

You certainly enjoy your victim role.

And you want everyone to believe they are going to have the same problems as you have?

"What if he does the same way I did. The same things I was warned of sir."

Then he would be just as stupid as you were at 16.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[spark]

You sir, make me laugh. I appreciate the kind words and gestures. But, I will digress knowing what 3 specialist told me, not knocking your anabolic research. But, they all ask the same thing before I told them "have you ever used steroids? These symptoms are directly related to steroids". I will take what the sports specialist say, neurologist, cardiologist and a hematologist over an anabolic researcher any day of the week now. I once was like you sir, I found out the truth oh but.........you are correct. You are correct, quoting anabolic researchers versus actual doctors. Stands the trutb

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

You sir, make me laugh. I appreciate the kind words and gestures. But, I will digress knowing what 3 specialist told me, not knocking your anabolic research. But, they all ask the same thing before I told them "have you ever used steroids? These symptoms are directly related to steroids". I will take what the sports specialist say, neurologist, cardiologist and a hematologist over an anabolic researcher any day of the week now. I once was like you sir, I found out the truth oh but.........you are correct. You are correct, quoting anabolic researchers versus actual doctors. Stands the trutb

Sparky,

"If you need my doctor's notes, you need my paystubs from where I missed work, you need the medication list I was on before?"

So, I guess that was all for posturing.

You are victim of your own demise.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[jtterrible]

no kenny... the doctors know that steroids are ebil..

 

[EATSCHILDREN]

But.....roids r good. I'm just fortunate they hadn't crossed my mind until my mid 20s.

 

[spark]

Hey guys, LOL. I do enjoy gear, its not all evil. I just wanted the kid to stay away from them at his age. I didnt mean to offend anyone, i only was stating what I have been told by my doctors And yes, i still use gear, prescribed no less. Sorry if i pissed anyone off. And, Mr. croxdale, have a wonderful blessed day.

 

[jtterrible]

Hey guys, LOL. I do enjoy gear, its not all evil. I just wanted the kid to stay away from them at his age. I didnt mean to offend anyone, i only was stating what I have been told by my doctors And yes, i still use gear, prescribed no less. Sorry if i pissed anyone off. And, Mr. croxdale, have a wonderful blessed day.

no.. the doctors know better.. steroids are ebil.. and from what I've seen recently I sure as hell hope I don't get ill with anything more than the flu and need an MD.. 8 years of school and still clueless as fuck..

 

[Gazhole]

Lol...I'd love to hear that type of whining to judges. All of those guys are just embarrassed so that's why they are whining. Especially the guy who got second place in a non-tested show to a natural guy.

Thing is, the judges were fine with the natural/steroid thing. They later told him that it's in the federation rules that you should be exclusive to that fed if you're going to enter their comps, he legitimately didn't know that rule, but they let him keep the trophy and said well done.

Fucking deserved it! It was just one or two sore losers throwing their toys out of the pram.

 

[bjg]

I didnt want to ask this in anabolic zone because probably everyone will say its okay, but i just started working out last month, and my brother has been like like 2 years and looks really good, but there are 2 kids that are 16 at my school with huge arms, but he knows they both use steroids, and he doesnt, and he says he would never, but heres the thing, are steroids that bad for you? the 16 year old kid can bench like 3 plates, and the other kid hasnt been working out long at all, they can just lift a shitload of weights, but how bad are steroids for you

Jason , i am probably older than your father and been around , here are the facts:
yes steroids will give you results but
1- your results are short term as you stop the steroids you will go back down even smaller than when you started.
2- with long term use You will be addicted mentally and physically you will never be able to build muscle without them.
3- All my friends who used them at a young age regret it..all of them
and now i look much much better than all of them.
4- short term use will not cause any damage,but what for? since you will loose what you gained when you stop, however long term use can cause, cholesterol, high blood pressure, balding, sexual problems, heart problems, liver problems, ,...the list is too long.
ask yourself if you have a son would you let him take steroids?
I don't care what people on steroid forums say, they know the truth they just don't want to admit it.
So my advice: STAY AWAY don't even think about it be patient you will get bigger with time.

NOW YOU DECIDE

 

[Pika]

Sorry but your wrong, theres no way of telling him he will lose all and more if he gets off of them thats not true! How old is he btw? Im hoping atleast over 21 but yh your right if he is young its ovs waitin longer is better for some reasons ..... My friend has been doing steriods since he was 17 ( fucking stupid ) his now 5'11 at 225 pounds at around 8 to 9 % bf and he is now 21 if i can il put a pic up but yh his massive and always goes for a chevk up and his very heathy... Not saying ya should do this no way should you im just saying.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Disclaimer

Before starting, let me once again reiterate that NO teen needs to be using anabolics.

Jason , i am probably older than your father and been around , here are the facts:

"A little knowledge is dangerous thing."

One of my pet peeves are individuals, such as yourself, spewing misinformation based on your limited amount of knowledge.

With that in mind let's breakdown your one dimensional information.

yes steroids will give you results but
1- your results are short term as you stop the steroids you will go back down even smaller than when you started.

Two Steps Forward

Anabolics are the equivalent of taking two step forward when your on them.

One Step Back

Going off is the equivalent of taking One Step Back.

Net Gain

Thus, even when you come off you are still One Step Ahead of where you started.

In other words, you will NOT "go back down even smaller than when you started."

Research: ANABOLIC STEROIDS PROVIDE A COMPETITIVE EDGE IN POWERLIFTING YEARS AFTER DOPING HAS ENDED

Based on the characteristics between doped and non-doped powerlifters, we conclude that a period of anabolic steroid usage is an advantage for a powerlifter in competition, even several years after they stop taking a doping drug.?????? Dr. Anders Eriksson

2- with long term use You will be addicted mentally and physically you will never be able to build muscle without them.

Mental and/or Physical Addiction

There is NO mental or physical addiction.

3- All my friends who used them at a young age regret it..all of them and now i look much much better than all of them.

Details

Provide names and details. All you've got is heresay.

Again, I am NOT a proponent of teen usage.

4- short term use will not cause any damage,but what for? since you will loose what you gained when you stop, however long term use can cause, cholesterol, high blood pressure, balding, sexual problems, heart problems, liver problems, ,...the list is too long.

Long Term Abuse NOT Use

The majority of individuals who have encountered problems are those who have abused them.

There are individuals who have use them for decades without any problems.

Dr Robert Kerr

Dr Robert Kerr spent a couple of decades prescribing anabolics. Kerr wrote a book on it. As per Kerr, none of his patients had any health issues when they followed his protocol.

Kerr worked with and "tracked" thousands.

Dr Norm Fost

Dr Norm Fost is another anabolic specialist. Fost concurs with Kerr.

Fost also stated, "Anyone selling steriods to kid should be hung and then given a fair trial"...which I agree with.

I don't care what people on steroid forums say, they know the truth they just don't want to admit it.

Your a MORON

I am not sure which is worse; a clueless uneducated individual taking anabolics or a moron like you spewing out misinformation and posing as an authority on a topic you know nothing about.

So my advice: STAY AWAY don't even think about it be patient you will get bigger with time.

At least you got one thing right.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Pika]

Now This^^ is what i was sayong lol i just didnt know how to say it ha.

Abuse of anythin long term is damging to say the least, i was just like every one eles i watch the tv show where the man's arms exploded!! I was like fuck ever using steriods! I thought bang your dead if you take them .... But going on these sites people who are honest and just go out of there way to tell you the truth is just another 5 steps in to the reality .... I then found out that it wasnt steriods that made his arms like that it was some form of umm oil? Or somthim anyways .....

 

[bjg]

Sorry but your wrong, theres no way of telling him he will lose all and more if he gets off of them thats not true! How old is he btw? Im hoping atleast over 21 but yh your right if he is young its ovs waitin longer is better for some reasons ..... My friend has been doing steriods since he was 17 ( fucking stupid ) his now 5'11 at 225 pounds at around 8 to 9 % bf and he is now 21 if i can il put a pic up but yh his massive and always goes for a chevk up and his very heathy... Not saying ya should do this no way should you im just saying.

steroids must always be followed up by check ups and medical exams and taking other medicine to minimize bad steroids side effects etc....i think it is really stupid to start ruining your life that early at 16 or 17. your friend is still healthy because he is always checking himself up etc...but is he gonna stay healthy ..let us know in few years and if he stops steroids what will happen????
he will go down in size very quickly .
even growth hormone effects that were thought to last and stay...it does not.
anyways it is a debate that will never end, the point is :why bodybuilding? it should be for the looks and the health and the mental health .with steroids you will get the looks AT THE EXPENSE OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH and you will be dependent on it is it worth it???.
how far are you willing to go for the looks ....at the expense of what?

 

[Pika]

Iknow your 100% right know one needs or should use them at such a stupid age i was juat saying ..... But its a fact bro if ypu have a good diet and a good pct you will keep sone nice gains just need to do things right and withba good kniw it all

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor

steroids must always be followed up by check ups and medical exams and taking other medicine to minimize bad steroids side effects etc....i think it is really stupid to start ruining your life that early at 16 or 17. your friend is still healthy because he is always checking himself up etc...but is he gonna stay healthy ..let us know in few years and if he stops steroids what will happen????
he will go down in size very quickly .
even growth hormone effects that were thought to last and stay...it does not.
anyways it is a debate that will never end, the point is :why bodybuilding? it should be for the looks and the health and the mental health .with steroids you will get the looks AT THE EXPENSE OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH and you will be dependent on it is it worth it???.
how far are you willing to go for the looks ....at the expense of what?

The Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor

Your rant reminds me of John Belushi in "The Blue Brothers" on how the German's bombed Pearl Harbor.

God love you, you got part of it right.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[lcht2]

All I thought about was pussy, beer, and going sideways in 2nd gear when I was 16, definitely not needles. lol.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Woops

It was Animal House, not the Blues Brothers.

Nice catch.

Kenny

 

[Killermonkey]

very bad at that age. not for kids or people new to lifting

In short, this is it! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[bjg]

Iknow your 100% right know one needs or should use them at such a stupid age i was juat saying ..... But its a fact bro if ypu have a good diet and a good pct you will keep sone nice gains just need to do things right and withba good kniw it all

the only way one might keep some gains after stopping steroids is to start taking steroids after years of bodybuilding after your body reached a plateau a maximum level then using steroids would take you to a higher level and when you stop you might keep just a tiny bit of what you gained ONLY if you continue to work out at the same level.
i know a guy who is a beginner , age 25 he started directly on GH and spent tons of money over 2 years , as he stopped he lost everything he gained in about 4-5 months ..so i believe some people could keep some gains if they have experience and train properly but it is very difficult once your system is used to steroids.
But taking them at 16 is totally ridiculous.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

the only way one might keep some gains after stopping steroids is to start taking steroids after years of bodybuilding after your body reached a plateau a maximum level then using steroids would take you to a higher level and when you stop you might keep just a tiny bit of what you gained ONLY if you continue to work out at the same level.

Continuing to Flaunt Your Ignorance

Wow, your really like keeping this flapjack on the giddle until it's burnt, don't you?

You have NO practical experience NOR much "book" learning on this topic.

So, let me once again CONFUSE YOU WITH THE FACTS

Research: ANABOLIC STEROIDS PROVIDE A COMPETITIVE EDGE IN POWERLIFTING YEARS AFTER DOPING HAS ENDED

Based on the characteristics between doped and non-doped powerlifters, we conclude that a period of anabolic steroid usage is an advantage for a powerlifter in competition, even several years after they stop taking a doping drug.?????? Dr. Anders Eriksson

i know a guy who is a beginner , age 25 he started directly on GH and spent tons of money over 2 years , as he stopped he lost everything he gained in about 4-5 months ..so i believe some people could keep some gains if they have experience and train properly but it is very difficult once your system is used to steroids.

More Misinformation

As research indicates, the gains obtained with anabolics put you ahead of where you before using.

Losing Everything in 4-5 Months

The only way he lost everything was that he COMPLETELY stopped training and basically did NOTHING.

Weight Training--Losing All Gains

The same thing applies with weight training. When you STOP training, you "shrink" back to where you were.

Anedocatal Evidence

From a personal persepctive, the research data on is on the money.

A large percentage of the gains that I obtained from using them from 1977 to 1987 are still with me today.

I've maintained my relationship with my powerlifting buddies from that era and they will tell you the same thing.

Your LACK of Knowledge

You lack any "book" smarts and NO practical real world, hand on knowledge on this topic.

But taking them at 16 is totally ridiculous.

Well, you got one thing right...

Kenny Croxdale

 

[bjg]

I have never seen in my life a guy taking steroids and maintaining his gains after he stops...in fact all i have seen is the opposite; If you bring me all the quotes in the world from the internet i don't care , my information is based on reality and on medical textbooks not on internet bullshit ask any doctor...some of the gains are also water retention, withdrawal symptoms can be very very serious leading to mental problems and sometimes to suicide..androgen levels will drop below normal and side effects could be irreversible in extreme cases and in women there are irreversible androgenic effects. in short the deeper you get into steroids the deeper the shit you are in.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I have never seen in my life a guy taking steroids and maintaining his gains after he stops...in fact all i have seen is the opposite; If you bring me all the quotes in the world from the internet i don't care , my information is based on reality and on medical textbooks not on internet bullshit

You Haven't Been Around

Thanks for acknowledging once again your lack of knowledge in this area.

One Dimensional Knowledge

Again, your knowledge is one dimensional. You haven't been around enough to know.

"i can show you that you are not up to the level in no time, but i have no time to waste on that." From your resent post http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2510199

Evidently, you got more time on your hands that you realize.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[bjg]

kenny whatever .............just go ahead and take steroids and whatever you like since you like them so much you are just arguing to argue.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

kenny whatever .............just go ahead and take steroids and whatever you like since you like them so much you are just arguing to argue.

I took took then I don't take them.

Evidently, you didn't quite understand the difference. I have been quite open about that.

Does that clarify it?

Presenting Factual Information

Let me try once more to clarify information with you.

I am a proponet of prsenting the facts, rather than fallacies.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[ScottyMac710]

I have never seen in my life a guy taking steroids and maintaining his gains after he stops...in fact all i have seen is the opposite; If you bring me all the quotes in the world from the internet i don't care , my information is based on reality and on medical textbooks not on internet bullshit ask any doctor...some of the gains are also water retention, withdrawal symptoms can be very very serious leading to mental problems and sometimes to suicide..androgen levels will drop below normal and side effects could be irreversible in extreme cases and in women there are irreversible androgenic effects. in short the deeper you get into steroids the deeper the shit you are in.

You're watching WAY too much Fox news bro.

If you've never seen someone use AAS and maintain their gains afterwards you clearly have not been around any experienced and serious drug using athletes. I have seen plenty of people blow up of dbol or some stupid cycle and lose most of their gains afterwards, but that is because they stopped training, never ate well when they were on or afterwards, didnt use any post-cycle therapy, and didn't have a good training regimen to begin with. You should stop while you're behind; your posts are blatant regurgitation of media bullshit and uninformed medical personnel (a close family member is a very well versed and educated Dr. in the emergency room, but warned me about the dangers of creatine without knowing the first thing about it)

 

[bjg]

You're watching WAY too much Fox news bro.

If you've never seen someone use AAS and maintain their gains afterwards you clearly have not been around any experienced and serious drug using athletes. I have seen plenty of people blow up of dbol or some stupid cycle and lose most of their gains afterwards, but that is because they stopped training, never ate well when they were on or afterwards, didnt use any post-cycle therapy, and didn't have a good training regimen to begin with. You should stop while you're behind; your posts are blatant regurgitation of media bullshit and uninformed medical personnel (a close family member is a very well versed and educated Dr. in the emergency room, but warned me about the dangers of creatine without knowing the first thing about it)

The people you see maintaining their gains are lying about stopping plain simple i have been in the gyms with people you won't dream of being with don't worry about that, 35 years in the gym taught me a lot.
steroids users are of two kind, some regret it and some know the truth but don't want to admit it so they defend their position. only Growth hormones can have long lasting effects.

 

[Built]

i know a guy who is a beginner , age 25 he started directly on GH and spent tons of money over 2 years , as he stopped he lost everything he gained in about 4-5 months ..so i believe some people could keep some gains if they have experience and train properly but it is very difficult once your system is used to steroids.

I'm sorry, but your guy friend was a fool to start on GH at 25. GH doesn't make you big; for the most part, it's a cutting drug. It helps you drop fat and it does great things for connective tissues and skin, but nobody gets huge off GH. At 25, unless he was cutting hard, GH would have been an utter waste.

He lost all his gains btw because he wasn't eating enough once he went off. Thermodynamics - it's not just a good idea - it's the law! ??? I've seen plenty of guys lose all their gains from natural bulks as well. They get big, stop training and overeating, and shrink right back to where they were before. Gear or no, you still gotta eat, and you still gotta lift heavy things.

But taking them at 16 is totally ridiculous.

I have never seen in my life a guy taking steroids and maintaining his gains after he stops...in fact all i have seen is the opposite; If you bring me all the quotes in the world from the internet i don't care , my information is based on reality and on medical textbooks not on internet bullshit ask any doctor...

I have yet to meet a doctor who truly understands anabolic use. I'm sure they exist, but I wouldn't ask "any" doctor, to be sure.

some of the gains are also water retention,

Yep - aromatizable compounds mean more estrogen, and more estrogen means more water. Take it from a woman on this one - we INVENTED bloat. <shakes tiny fist in rage>

withdrawal symptoms can be very very serious leading to mental problems and sometimes to suicide..

I know a great many men who use and who have used varying levels of gear. One of the men I know well - a Registered Nurse - had post cycle depression that was bad enough that he said he never wanted to do another cycle.

Even though he's the only one I've encountered, the possibility does exist, no doubt about it.

androgen levels will drop below normal and side effects could be irreversible in extreme cases and in women there are irreversible androgenic effects. in short the deeper you get into steroids the deeper the shit you are in.

In women there are SOMETIMES irreversible androgenic effects. This varies as women vary, and also with the drugs used, dose and duration of the cycle involved.

The people you see maintaining their gains are lying about stopping plain simple

Many are. Most people really don't know how to train and diet properly - gear lets you get away with a lot and yes, you'll turn back into a normal person when it's over. If you don't have a DAMNED good exit-plan, you're going to lose all your gains. If you DO have a good exit-plan, you'll lose very little.

i have been in the gyms with people you won't dream of being with don't worry about that, 35 years in the gym taught me a lot.
steroids users are of two kind, some regret it and some know the truth but don't want to admit it so they defend their position. only Growth hormones can have long lasting effects.

Only GH can have long lasting effects? Could I trouble you to clarify what you mean by this?

 

[bjg]

He lost all his gains btw because he wasn't eating enough once he went off.
Only GH can have long lasting effects? Could I trouble you to clarify what you mean by this?[/QUOTE]

GH not only makes you use fat as a source of energy thus cutting, but it gives tremendous lean muscle mass increase. my friend who was 25 was followed by experts and still did not maintain any of his gains, although i would think he should have , but it seems from observation that the more trained you are before GH the more gains you will keep after stopping . GH have greater effects when used with insulin. It promotes and increases the synthesis of protein tissue: recovery, repair and building of new muscle tissue,
It was long believed (scientifically or medically thought) that some of its gains could be maintained for a long time after stopping and in some cases forever.
the downside: very expensive my friend spent around 15 K.
and.....it accelerates significantly any cancer in your body.
It might also cause bone deformation like widening of jaw and skull etc...similar to acromegaly symptoms.

 

[Built]

He lost all his gains btw because he wasn't eating enough once he went off.

Only GH can have long lasting effects? Could I trouble you to clarify what you mean by this?

GH not only makes you use fat as a source of energy thus cutting, but it gives tremendous lean muscle mass increase.

Excuse me. It can give you SOME lean mass increase. Some. Not tremendous. Sorry.

my friend who was 25 was followed by experts and still did not maintain any of his gains,

Which experts?

although i would think he should have , but it seems from observation that the more trained you are before GH the more gains you will keep after stopping . GH have greater effects when used with insulin.

D'uh! GH also induces insulin resistance, which is one of the reasons why it works so well for fat loss during a cut. By sparing glucose for the brain, retinas, and red blood cells - tissues which cannot operate off ketone bodies - protein is spared, and thus, so are your muscles.

It promotes and increases the synthesis of protein tissue: recovery, repair and building of new muscle tissue,
It was long believed (scientifically or medically thought) that some of its gains could be maintained for a long time after stopping and in some cases forever.
the downside: very expensive my friend spent around 15 K.
and.....it accelerates significantly any cancer in your body.

This is a very real concern. I have yet to meet anyone who has been harmed in this way, but the possibility exists.

It might also cause bone deformation like widening of jaw and skull etc...similar to acromegaly symptoms.

In large doses, right again.

Your young man, the 25 year old on GH for many months - had idiots guiding him. I'm very sorry he had such poor advice.

 

[bjg]

ironically one of the people following him is a doctor...
i am no expert on GH but i have some info about it and i see some bodybuilders swear by it especially the middle aged ones because normally these are the ones who can afford it.
i have seen one case of cancer ( started with prostate cancer) with a well known weightlifter in my country but who knows if it was from GH or not but he showed symptoms of acromegaly , he died at an age of around 65.
i know of another one who is young and really shows symptoms of acromegaly.
..