Steroids?

[Built]

ironically one of the people following him is a doctor...

No irony there - it's pretty much the norm. I have yet to meet a medical doctor (at least, in real life) whom I would ask ANYTHING about not only steroids, but even thyroid replacement.

i am no expert on GH but i have some info about it and i see some bodybuilders swear by it especially the middle aged ones because normally these are the ones who can afford it.

On the black market it can be quite inexpensive; regardless, bodybuilders do not run GH by itself. It is almost always stacked with AAS and other compounds.

i have seen one case of cancer ( started with prostate cancer) with a well known weightlifter in my country but who knows if it was from GH or not

I have several male friends with prostate cancer. Only one of them uses steroids, and he's in his sixties and on hormone replacement therapy only; he's not an athlete.

Prostate cancer is associated with the same risk factors as breast cancer: elevated estrogen levels. This often accompanies higher-than-normal levels of bodyfat. The aromatase enzyme resides in adipose - more adipose = more estrogen, which leads to the increased prostate cancer risk. Existing hyperplasias may very well be inflamed by GH, but GH by itself won't so this. Not unless MY reading is out of date.

but he showed symptoms of acromegaly , he died at an age of around 65.
i know of another one who is young and really shows symptoms of acromegaly.
..

Acromegaly is a different story - as scientists we of course understand that anectodal evidence is far from proof, and that correlation does not mean causation. I take this moment to remind you of this, since you made earlier statements on this latter point.

 

[bjg]

i ve been around and by looking at someone and his posture and his face, his skin... i just can tell what he is on and GH for me gives very specific looks and posture..of course when taken in excess.
but the cancer thing is medically well established from what i understand..
here is my view on things:
1- teenagers and beginners should at no price venture into steroid territory especially not under the advise of peers,
2- steroids, Gh and others (even vitamins if you want to push it to the extreme) are not to be used for recreational purposes like looking better or building muscle faster etc.. they are medicine and must be treated as such and used for therapeutic reasons.
3- Finally if you are getting results no matter how slow, why start taking things that could be of questionable source, muscle built slowly and with patience is truly rewarding
that was my opinion, there is nothing in it to be wrong or right, just my view.

 

[Built]

GH use is a well-established risk factor for the development of prostate cancer?

I know cancers proliferate with GH, but develop?

As of last spring, this had not been established
[Doping and urologic tumors]. [Urologia. 2010 Apr-May] - PubMed - NCBI

Do you have something more recent showing a causal relationship between GH use and prostate cancer?

 

[bjg]

GH use is a well-established risk factor for the development of prostate cancer?

I know cancers proliferate with GH, but develop?

As of last spring, this had not been established
[Doping and urologic tumors]. [Urologia. 2010 Apr-May] - PubMed - NCBI

Do you have something more recent showing a causal relationship between GH use and prostate cancer?

not prostate just in general. develop maybe but proliferate definitely, who is willing to test hi/herself every few months to see if no signs of cancer there and in many cases it is not even detectable....so it is not practical to SERIOUSLY go on GH

 

[Built]

There is a paucity of documented evidence to support a risk, although the mechanism certainly exists in theory. It is one of many things to consider when making the decision to use - or not.

 

[Curt James]

Could it be that those kids are just strong naturally and not necessarily on steroids? I know this one kid at the gym that he doesn't look like he has 6 months of training under his belt but he could bench 225 lbs with EASE. I swear this kid is around 140, maybe 150 lbs tops! Some guys are just born strong.

This. There was a kid in the Navy who benched 300 at a buck-fifty. Doubt he was juicing. Just naturally cock strong.

 

[bjg]

This. There was a kid in the Navy who benched 300 at a buck-fifty. Doubt he was juicing. Just naturally cock strong.

you are right there i have seen some naturally strong people in fact the strongest one i have seen was not on any juice.
I am not considered as particularly strong in bench presses but so far i have not seen any of these juiced kids lift as nearly as i did when i was their age.
I used to do around 120 pushups in a row at 16 and when i started bench pressing, my first bench was 135 lbs,, 6 months later i was training with 225 lbs,

 

[Built]

You haven't seen assisted lifters bench more than two plates a side? Seriously?

 

[zoco]

I didnt want to ask this in anabolic zone because probably everyone will say its okay, but i just started working out last month, and my brother has been like like 2 years and looks really good, but there are 2 kids that are 16 at my school with huge arms, but he knows they both use steroids, and he doesnt, and he says he would never, but heres the thing, are steroids that bad for you? the 16 year old kid can bench like 3 plates, and the other kid hasnt been working out long at all, they can just lift a shitload of weights, but how bad are steroids for you

At that age, taking steroids is the worst thing you could do to your body.

 

[bjg]

You haven't seen assisted lifters bench more than two plates a side? Seriously?

of course i did i was talking at 16-to 18 years old. later in life around 28 i could bench slightly more than 3 plates a side in a competition (just one rep). but you don't see in gyms natural people benching that much especially at a body weight of 170 lbs.
other than that i have seen lifters (on steroids of course) lift in the 500-600 range. in fact one guy was my weight or slightly more and regional champion did lift above 400.
One time that was around 25 years ago i was at the gym and a volleyball team came in (imagine volleyball!!!!!) one of the players around 5'10-6ft or so not particularly big maybe 180 lbs and trimmed , does not look at all like a bodybuilder came on the bench no warm up or anything lifted two plates a side the right after lifted around 365 for 3-4 reps and left...that was amazing

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

You're watching WAY too much Fox news bro.

If you've never seen someone use AAS and maintain their gains afterwards you clearly have not been around any experienced and serious drug using athletes. I have seen plenty of people blow up of dbol or some stupid cycle and lose most of their gains afterwards, but that is because they stopped training, never ate well when they were on or afterwards, didnt use any post-cycle therapy, and didn't have a good training regimen to begin with. You should stop while you're behind; your posts are blatant regurgitation of media bullshit and uninformed medical personnel (a close family member is a very well versed and educated Dr. in the emergency room, but warned me about the dangers of creatine without knowing the first thing about it)

Scotty,

Bingo!

Well put.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

"i can show you that you are not up to the level in no time, but i have no time to waste on that."

For a guiy with no time you sure have a lot of time to waste.

It would be nice if you wasted the "no time" you don't have on educating yourself more.

ironically one of the people following him is a doctor...

A Friend

Ok, we get it. You have ONE friend who used anabolics and everything you know is based on him.

He was 25 and clueless.

Medical Doctor

I've yet to find one medical doctor that had any idea about anabolics.

Medical doctors have no knowledge of which anabolic steriod does what. Nor do that have in hand on experience.

PDR

What you end up with is a medical doctor reading a PDR and coming up with random conclusions.

Understatement

You don't have an inkling of an idea about GH.

Having Sex

Your a virgin telling other about what sex it like. lol

and i see some bodybuilders swear by it especially the middle aged ones because normally these are the ones who can afford it.
i have seen one case of cancer ( started with prostate cancer) with a well known weightlifter in my country but who knows if it was from GH or not but he showed symptoms of acromegaly , he died at an age of around 65.
i know of another one who is young and really shows symptoms of acromegaly.
..

"I have seen ONE"

Your knowledge is based on "ONES". One never tell you anything.

Let me know when you get to two.

Resume

By the way, I am stil waiting on your CV (resume).
Kenny Croxdale

 

[stepaukas]

steroids, or any kind of drug taken to enhance an athlete is cheating... in any sport..

funny how after athletic performances that are outstanding, the athlete always gets caught.. xcountry skiing, cycling, carl lewis in the 100, 90# russian gymnasts..

the bodybuilding game the drugs are accepted...
funny how when robbie r is interviewed, he says in his day, arnold and chemist zane and all the others from that era took small doses. he says todays guys take a ton.. who cares robbie.. they took drugs back then and now.. what they couldnt achieve thru hard training and diet they took drugs to get over that hump..its accepted, but is still cheating..

i cant get that look i want thru sleep diet and training so i'm taking drugs.. lol!!!

in the winter olympics that one italian skier blew everyone away in the 50k race.. two weeks later he was caught being on epo..

loosers

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

steroids, or any kind of drug taken to enhance an athlete is cheating... in any sport..

funny how after athletic performances that are outstanding, the athlete always gets caught.. xcountry skiing, cycling, carl lewis in the 100, 90# russian gymnasts..

the bodybuilding game the drugs are accepted...
funny how when robbie r is interviewed, he says in his day, arnold and chemist zane and all the others from that era took small doses. he says todays guys take a ton.. who cares robbie.. they took drugs back then and now.. what they couldnt achieve thru hard training and diet they took drugs to get over that hump..its accepted, but is still cheating..

i cant get that look i want thru sleep diet and training so i'm taking drugs.. lol!!!

in the winter olympics that one italian skier blew everyone away in the 50k race.. two weeks later he was caught being on epo..

loosers

It's NOT Cheating
It not cheating if everyone take them...which is what you've indicated.

Drug Free And "Don't Ask Don't Tell".
Now many sports have drug free as well the "we don't ask divisions".

I am fine with that.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[bjg]

some people choose steroids and some do not. The ones who do not will have more pride in achieving their goals period. Steroids are not only used by pros , but by youngsters who are impatient and want immediate results, and for sure they will pay for it later, and kenny i did not base my opinion on one person and you know it you just like to argue.
Another point that none has mentioned:
your body is made by many organs, liver, heart, kidney , etc...and muscles...a dramatic muscle mass gain is not balanced by a bigger heart, larger kidneys , liver etc....you are still the same just your muscles are larger and this is no good, like when you put a powerful engine on a small car leaving all the other components the same..something 's got to break.
whereas slow and natural muscle building gives time to the whole body to adapt and evolve accordingly

 

[Built]

some people choose steroids and some do not. The ones who do not will have more pride in achieving their goals period.

You don't know this. Not unless you're some sort of a mind-reader. Sorry.

Steroids are not only used by pros , but by youngsters who are impatient and want immediate results,

They're also used by Broadway dancers, Cirque du Soleil acrobats, and middle-aged housewives who want better recovery and performance. Most steroid users are recreational. Competitive athletes are only a small subset of all who use.

and for sure they will pay for it later,

Kids should not use, period. They have not finished growing; at the very least, steroid use can and will stunt their growth.

and kenny i did not base my opinion on one person and you know it you just like to argue.

To be fair, you're arguing based on very little information (much of it wrong, or at least wildly exaggerated in a way typical of the mainstream media) with people who are immersed in physical culture. You are a thoughtful man and you know some good information, but you appear to be somewhat blinded by your personal bias and it's keeping you from understanding more about the points you try to argue.

My .02

Another point that none has mentioned:
your body is made by many organs, liver, heart, kidney , etc...and muscles...a dramatic muscle mass gain is not balanced by a bigger heart, larger kidneys , liver etc....you are still the same just your muscles are larger

This is patently false.

and this is no good, like when you put a powerful engine on a small car leaving all the other components the same..something 's got to break.
whereas slow and natural muscle building gives time to the whole body to adapt and evolve accordingly

Not everyone who uses steroids does so to such an extreme as to cause the kinds of problems you fear. It's like comparing a true social drinker to an alcoholic - it's not the substance that causes the problem, it's the person who takes it.

 

[bjg]

built you are right about me exaggerating things and sure i am biased but my main point is addressed to young bodybuilders, perhaps i failed to make that clear from the beginning,...adults and experienced ones can do what they want..but iam against the idea of letting teens try steroids like many people in this forum would think , i feel it is an obligation to warn them.
anyways my expertise as far as bodybuilding is concerned is the workout itself and the techniques of lifting etc..and the routines..i am not interested in performance enhancing products. i increase my performance through working out and if i hit a plateau i try to solve that by working out and if i can't so be it. no problem for me.
as far as steroids being used by housewives ...maybe from time to time or for therapeutic reasons ,some elderly also use them prescribed to them by doctors for therapeutic reasons only ..this is where the side effects are not as important as the benefits., i don't see my grandma doing cycles of Dbol.... bulking and cuttingl!! perhaps one day we will who knows.

 

[Pika]

Lol im just sitting back and watching built rape ya all lol no offence lol she goes hard man i tell ya only person i listen to

 

[bjg]

Lol im just sitting back and watching built rape ya all lol no offence lol she goes hard man i tell ya only person i listen to

Pika i learned long time ago that you should not argue with women....

 

[Pika]

Aint that the truth ha... But 4 real she just a beast on the shit she knows i tell ya lol

 

[effinrob]

bad idea wait til u have been training for a few years and are over at least 25

 

[sofargone561]

Pika i learned long time ago that you should not argue with women....

atleast one that can kick ur ass or make u pay child support otherwise argue away

 

[Built]

adults and experienced ones can do what they want..but iam against the idea of letting teens try steroids like many people in this forum would think , i feel it is an obligation to warn them.

You also have an obligation not to lie to them. The kids you seek to protect will figure out very quickly when the risks are being overstated. Over-exaggerate the risk, and they won't believe you at all.

as far as steroids being used by housewives ...maybe from time to time or for therapeutic reasons ,some elderly also use them prescribed to them by doctors for therapeutic reasons only ..this is where the side effects are not as important as the benefits., i don't see my grandma doing cycles of Dbol.... bulking and cuttingl!! perhaps one day we will who knows.

bjg, I appreciate you are communicating in your second language (and far better than I could in MY second language), but please re-read my post. I said nothing of bulking and cutting. I said enhanced performance and recovery. And yes, there are middle-aged housewives who compete in amateur figure competitions using steroids and growth hormone.

My 81 year old mother uses transdermal testosterone, DHEA and progesterone for bone and ocular health.

Not all steroid users use these agents to get bigger.

 

[bjg]

Maybe you can keep up some gained muscle after stopping steroids but this is in an ideal situation , practically i have yet to see a long term steroid user ho kept all his muscle gains after stopping steroids for good...he might say he stopped but normally all of them lie about it, when he completely stops he will start going down ,in a year he will loose everything if not more than what he gained. of course he will keep his natural muscle and sometimes even that will diminish..seen it many times, with people who kept working out and kept good diet and they took whatever necessary steps not to loose muscle..finally went back to steroids this is the story and here it is not exaggerated at all ....can somebody tell me of a steroid user who completely stopped steroids (not for health reasons) for years i mean totally and sure that he is not lying about it?????
now is damage to the liver exaggerated when steroids are long term used by young people?????
Are you healthier if you are young and rely on steroids????
Is bodybuilding to you only about looks, what about health????

In Bodybuilding Steroids will slowly kill you while giving you the illusion that you are getting better but in reality it is killing you from the inside. you might want to be tempted to try them and look better temporarily but you have to know when to stop.
medicine must be treated as medicine when the benefits outweigh the harm period.

\It is easy to look up the list of young athletes, sprinters, bodybuilders who died young ..was it by bad luck??
just google search about the study done on wrestlers who used steroids for years and you will see chocking results and the percentage of them who died young in their 40's and the percentage of them who has problems.

here are the words of the late baseball player Caminity:

Caminiti's best season was 1996 when, at age 33, he hit 40 homers had 130 runs batted in and a .326 batting average.

He said the steroid use was catching up to him.

"My tendons and ligaments got all torn up. My muscles got too strong for my tendons and ligaments.

"And now my body's not producing testosterone. You know what that's like? You get lethargic. You get depressed. It's terrible."

Caminiti is the latest in a long line of athletes to die at a young age after admitting to using performance enhancing drugs.

I'm amused when people want to talk about steroids and their impact on the game, I'm more concerned about steroids and their impact on the human being.

 

[bjg]

Finally here is a basic and maybe stupid question , please give me an answer:
Why would someone who is healthy would use steroids??????????

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

some people choose steroids and some do not. The ones who do not will have more pride in achieving their goals period.

More Pride

Those do not use don't have any more pride.

Steroids are not only used by pros , but by youngsters who are impatient and want immediate results, and for sure they will pay for it later,

Group Concensus

EVERYONE on this site has noted that kids should NOT take them.

and kenny i did not base my opinion on one person and you know it you just like to argue.

Based On One Person

Then you will have NO problem providing more specific information on other individuls. Specific information meaning names and detailed information on them.

As a PhD, you know the drill on providing references, right?

Another point that none has mentioned:
your body is made by many organs, liver, heart, kidney , etc...and muscles...a dramatic muscle mass gain is not balanced by a bigger heart, larger kidneys , liver etc....you are still the same just your muscles are larger and this is no good, like when you put a powerful engine on a small car leaving all the other components the same..something 's got to break.
whereas slow and natural muscle building gives time to the whole body to adapt and evolve accordingly

Dosage, Cycle Length, Genetics

Damage occurs based on what you take, the dosage, the length of your cycle and your genetic disposition.

Decades After The Fact

Over thirty years after taking them, I have had no long term effects nor have those I lifted with.

Damgage

Health issues occur from those who abused them. Overdosing, remaining on lengthy cycles, as well as poor genetics.

Car Deaths

Cars have killed more individuals (especially kids) on a percentage basis than anabolics.

Ban Car Use

If you want to save more lifes, esepcially kids lives, ban cars.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Finally here is a basic and maybe stupid question , please give me an answer:
Why would someone who is healthy would use steroids??????????

Psychologist

Why do people smoke, over eat, etc.?

You need a psychologist to understand that.

There are a variety of reasons.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[bjg]

More Pride

Those do not use don't have any more pride.



Group Concensus

EVERYONE on this site has noted that kids should NOT take them.



Based On One Person

Then you will have NO problem providing more specific information on other individuls. Specific information meaning names and detailed information on them.

As a PhD, you know the drill on providing references, right?



Dosage, Cycle Length, Genetics

Damage occurs based on what you take, the dosage, the length of your cycle and your genetic disposition.

Decades After The Fact

Over thirty years after taking them, I have had no long term effects nor have those I lifted with.

Damgage

Health issues occur from those who abused them. Overdosing, remaining on lengthy cycles, as well as poor genetics.

Car Deaths

Cars have killed more individuals (especially kids) on a percentage basis than anabolics.

Ban Car Use

If you want to save more lifes, esepcially kids lives, ban cars.

Kenny Croxdale

it seems that for every statement i make you have an answer , for sure , any statement can generate replies..
don't you see that in all of your replies there are lots of "if s" and lots of conditions like " it depends on this ..it depends on that...if this and if that"
Anything can be beneficial under very specific conditions and if this and if that....
tell me How many bodybuilders using steroids do you see dose their steroids according to their genetics and care about how long and how much they take and followed by strict medical surveillance..
So get real and get practical you r answers apply in ideal situations not in the real world.
and please answer my question
why do you use steroids???

 

[stepaukas]

lots here on this message board sound like they are for taking steroids for sporting events to help with performance/results..

i'm totally against it..

i'm also curious as to hearing results, or top placings in sporting events, before and after taking enhansing steroids..

i take my one a day vitamin, a little extra vitamin c and train my ass off. i use to be a 4:03 miler.never goy under the magic 4:00 mark, but i tried.. maybe taking epo would have helped me recover better to make my next training session eazier, but no way do i cheat, or would i put drugs in my body..if i cant run a sub 4:00, then i'll take a 4:03.

i currently bike race at the pro level.. could i be a faster pro by taking drugs? hell yes, but i choose not to.

whats everyones best results or placing before and then after drugs?

is it worth it?

you making a living at your sport?


i bet most that do drugs are your typical gym rat. no good, or average at best at sports, then they took up lifting.. benching 400 instead of 300.. big deal..


i love to hear the competition results...

 

[bjg]

[

Car Deaths

Cars have killed more individuals (especially kids) on a percentage basis than anabolics.

Ban Car Use

If you want to save more lifes, esepcially kids lives, ban cars.

Kenny Croxdale[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

and here you go you now use practical reality when you see it suits your argument.
the car example like cars kill more people than planes ..more than that
is a bullshit statistical manipulation. cars also killed more people than cigarettes....these kind of statistics are used for a specific advertising but in reality when applying statistics there are many variables and parameters to consider otherwise it is bullshit. don't argue with me on that remember i am a PHD after all.
How many kids you know chose to go in a car knowing that they will have an accident? but all the kids you know taking steroids are doing it on their own choice regardless of the consequences.....so that fact alone makes this statistical comparison as Bullshit and non valid since the two cases do not have the same conditions.
and to add: i write research articles, i do statistics and i know all the ins and outs of all this so called scientific evidence.