I think onset of action may be slowed with subc.
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Subcutaneous testosterone injections
- Thread starter heavyiron
- Start date
Okay so it would extend the halflife a bit. That's not really a problem if there's more frequent administration. I'm thinking it may be of use to frontload with an IM shot to get things going before taking it to the daily SC shots. I'd hate to think of a SC frontload! Ouch!
That sounds reasonable to me.
i didnt guarantee that. i said i was worried about it and i still am.
i'm glad the OP decided to test on himself, but I wouldnt. not with oil.
the study posted also mentioned fairly steady plasma levels over time but its a very cursory glance. no mention was made of sides like tissue damage. also they didnt compare plasma levels versus IM and how close SC came to therapeutic levels. you'd also need to study absorption across a variety of body types to gauge absorption, and then figure out where a body's most vascularized fat is.
BTW, I just finished a run with Tren Ace Subc. No Tren cough for the first time ever. YAY!
dr pangloss
Elite Member
I only shoot sub cutaneaously now. As i had told you earlier, i have never had a problem with hitting a vein.
Yup, your experience with subcutaneous aas adminstration was great to hear when I first looked into this. I have met a few guys who love subc. online.
Have you ever tested Total T while using this method?
I am guessing the slower release to the blood stream but I have zero scientific evidence. Just a guess.
VictorZ06
Registered
That's correct. Sub-q takes longer to hit the bloodstream.
Intramuscular injections are a preferred method of delivery for many drugs as this method provides a faster rate of absorption than subcutaneous administration.
/V
it will be slower indeed....leading one to worry about subtherapeutic plasma levels, and also uncertainty about when the cycle is "over" and PCT needs to begin. you could be leeching this stuff for months.
The plasma levels were measured with subcutaneous T administration and they were stable.
I think it is also true of IM injects. Most thread parrots think they know when to start PCT or when the ester clears from an IM course but the truth is they have no idea without labs. I have seen labs where guys were still under the influence of Testosterone for months after an IM aas cycle.
VictorZ06
Registered
Another note; IM injections can sometimes cause a small (or large) abscess that contain AAS within. The abscess could linger for months slowly releasing whatever is in there, into your blood stream. This can be problematic when timing PCT as T is still lingering around causing your plasma levels to flux up and down.
An abscess should be taken very seriously and I would not begin PCT unless I was certain that the abscess is gone completely. If you get one bad, be sure to see a Doc ASAP and have it drained.
/V
An abscess should be taken very seriously and I would not begin PCT unless I was certain that the abscess is gone completely. If you get one bad, be sure to see a Doc ASAP and have it drained.
/V
Good point, I have also wondered how much scar tissue plays a role in release times. Most sudies seem to base them off of a single inject in virgin muscle which is nothing like a user who has pinned many multiple times.
VictorZ06
Registered
I'm not sure how much of an effect scar tissue plays, but that is another good reason to try and hit various injection sites, just in case there an issue with hardened tissue. I would also guess that the longer the pin on the syringe, all the better.
/V
they were noted to be stable from week 1 to 8, i acknowledged that earlier, but with a very wide variation (27.46+12.91 nmol/l)...and no mention of IF that was a therapeutic range for that patient and no mention of why plasma levels varied nearly 50%. Was that variation in individual patients or across the cohort? Nobody would call a 50% variance within one person as "stable", so we need more details. And of course without labs one cannot truly determine when PCT is needed no matter the delivery route. That's one thing about orals, if the half life is 6 hours, the half life is 6 hours. PCT isnt hoping and guessing.
that is interesting as well and may have been studied. i'd conjecture that an abcessed injection site would be a hostile place for the T. With the increased heat and inflammatory chemicals in the region I would wonder if the T wouldnt break down and indeed not leach out at all.
A non-abcessed IM T injection will absorb and not be destroyed. I'm just unsure a SC T injection is being absorbed to any therapeutic degree.
Sterile abscess's are another caveat. I have one right now. No infection, no heat just a lump in my glute.
Oral half lives also vary. There is an interesting study with anavar showing older populations have a much longer half life. The condition of organs would be another caveat to oral half lives.
Labs are conclusive. Everything else is a cookie cutter guess.
Oral half lives also vary. There is an interesting study with anavar showing older populations have a much longer half life. The condition of organs would be another caveat to oral half lives.
Labs are conclusive. Everything else is a cookie cutter guess.
^^ that
dr pangloss
Elite Member
no i haven't. i know there is a bit of a lag compared to IM, it's likely simply related to the fact that you're injecting a hydrophobic compound into fat.
dr pangloss
Elite Member
You are rubbing off on me
People have been doing subcutaneous oil-based testosterone injections for years. The only "issue" is higher than normal DHT. To avoid itchy red skin at the site of injection, put pressure on the area for 10-20 seconds after the injection.
Most people use "slin pins" and inject less than half a milliliter on a daily basis. It takes less than a minute to get the oil IN and about 10 seconds to get it OUT. It's no big deal and if you want to avoid any possibility of getting an abscess an inch and a half deep in muscle (which often means lancing and time away from the weights), this is a good idea.
Most people never get an abscess but most people don't fall off the ferris wheel either. I'd rather be the guy reading about it in the paper than the guy they're talking about in regards to some freak incident. Remember, you can be as cautious as God, but accidents happen and sometimes even the best companies who produce oil based testosterone make mistakes...
Most people use "slin pins" and inject less than half a milliliter on a daily basis. It takes less than a minute to get the oil IN and about 10 seconds to get it OUT. It's no big deal and if you want to avoid any possibility of getting an abscess an inch and a half deep in muscle (which often means lancing and time away from the weights), this is a good idea.
Most people never get an abscess but most people don't fall off the ferris wheel either. I'd rather be the guy reading about it in the paper than the guy they're talking about in regards to some freak incident. Remember, you can be as cautious as God, but accidents happen and sometimes even the best companies who produce oil based testosterone make mistakes...
Here is another study showing normal serum levels administering testosterone subcutaneously.
Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. alfutaisi@squ.edu.om
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.
METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe.
RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.
CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
PMID: 17143361 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. alfutaisi@squ.edu.om
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.
METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe.
RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.
CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
PMID: 17143361 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
jmorrison
Registered
Nice read. Curious what the benefits would be in relation to long esthers like Test E at 500mg/EW. Would you still do 2 injections, or would you break the overal amount into staggered days?
i would just do im injections and leave the subq alone. no disrespect to anybody but all that was said about time is true. subq goes slowly into bloodstream and im goes faster. halflives in older people is much slower than 20 yr olds. the liver is much older along with other organs as well. thats with all medications. it was a awesome thread. i had a good time reading it.
Great read.
Nice work Heavy, thanks for taking the time, as always, for us.
Nice work Heavy, thanks for taking the time, as always, for us.
BigBadBen
Registered
Heavy,
I just wanted to say that because of your thread and information that you provided I have been using this method for the past 3 weeks with great success and zero issues.
Doing 1ml of test cyp a week at 300/ml I do three pins each .35ml
Thanks again.
Ben
I just wanted to say that because of your thread and information that you provided I have been using this method for the past 3 weeks with great success and zero issues.
Doing 1ml of test cyp a week at 300/ml I do three pins each .35ml
Thanks again.
Ben
Great to hear brother! Glad you like it.
