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Tendon health
- Thread starter Mudge
- Start date
Equpoise Vs. Winstrol For Tendons?
I was using small amounts(250-200 mg) of enenthate every 7-10 days..think I may have snapped a tendon or two during this time..what is better between Eqiupoise/Winstrol for building tendons/collagen and which is better for sperm?...
I was using small amounts(250-200 mg) of enenthate every 7-10 days..think I may have snapped a tendon or two during this time..what is better between Eqiupoise/Winstrol for building tendons/collagen and which is better for sperm?...
Winstrol VS Equipoise for LIGAMENTS
I was using small amounts(200-250 enanthate every 7-10 days),and at this time I believe I snapped one or two tendons...what is better for rebuilding collagen/tendons and why?.....and regards to sperm/natural testosterone production anybody know?
I was using small amounts(200-250 enanthate every 7-10 days),and at this time I believe I snapped one or two tendons...what is better for rebuilding collagen/tendons and why?.....and regards to sperm/natural testosterone production anybody know?
that is a easy question to answer.
winstrol dramatically increase collagen synthesis but it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, you end up with a larger but much weaker tendon. while equipoise (anavar, primobolan and Long R3 IGF-1) will increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass density.
EQ all the way !
winstrol dramatically increase collagen synthesis but it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, you end up with a larger but much weaker tendon. while equipoise (anavar, primobolan and Long R3 IGF-1) will increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass density.
EQ all the way !
ok, so if my 1st aas cycle is fast approaching can you guys point to any particular threads or articles that pertain to training while on aas' to avoid tendon/ ligament damage yet maximize hypertrophy? the levels i will be taking are higher than mudge's perameters for therapy... 500mg/wk test e, 400mg/wk eq, and 60mg/ed m5aa the last 4-5 weeks.
Thanks Mudge! This is a topic that I have been thinking about a lot. I tore a tendon almost all the way off my pelvis doing leg press with my normal weight. Never even knew it was coming. I'm sure my tendons were weakened due to the 1-ad and test cyp I had been using during the preceding months. My only concern going into my current cycle was not tearing a tendon again. All I am using now is sustanon 500/week, but as I go up in weight I fear that I might do damage. I plan to use deca the next time around, and I'm sure I will always include one of these that increase collagen synthesis and integrity. Anyway, this was just the info I was looking for.
Is this possible? 50 times as in a 5,000% increase?Mudge said:
I think most of it comes from genetics and training habits. Nandi may have some stuff over at CEM about it, dont know off hand.
If you do not currently take glucosamine or glucosamine/chondroitin I'd probably start, its not that expensive.
If you do not currently take glucosamine or glucosamine/chondroitin I'd probably start, its not that expensive.
thanks. i'll check. and oh yeah, i take 1500mg/ED w/ my pwo shake.Mudge said:
Adequan
I tried the link above to buy Adequan...some guy named "hector" sent me e-mail saying I needed to get Prescription for Adequan...called 4-5 vets in my area none will write prescription for it..how do you get it?..it seems to actually heal not just mask the pain!
I tried the link above to buy Adequan...some guy named "hector" sent me e-mail saying I needed to get Prescription for Adequan...called 4-5 vets in my area none will write prescription for it..how do you get it?..it seems to actually heal not just mask the pain!
You obviously need a prescription, or an illegal method of obtaining it in which case dont ask here for help doing that. This is a place for information on substances, but not neccessarily how to break the law to obtain it.
I'm bumping an old thread here, but it is a great topic. I'm curious about how tren affects connective tissue. I'm guessing the rapid increase in strength might be detrimental to tendons, but I haven't really been able to find info on this.
Are there any studies showing the effects of trenbolone on collagen synthesis that someone has reference to?
Are there any studies showing the effects of trenbolone on collagen synthesis that someone has reference to?
I dont think anyone cares about collagen synthesis in animals while on deca or EQ either, but those results are widely known. Why is that?Mudge said:
PirateFromHell said:
Other than finaject it has only been marketed as pellets, and animal orals. I think there are 2 or 3 studies on tren in humans, but I've never seen them, and I doubt it covers anything like that.
du510 said:
Sometimes animals are used as test subjects and we hope that results will mirror those results in humans, but in certain situations we know this is not the case and there is no substitute for a human subject.
Mudge what do you feel would be the better choice of steroid for the older who use it for HRT and have tendon problems. Also At what dosage would you recommend?
Thank you for such a great post.
PT
Thank you for such a great post.
PT
Kxf
No need to site inject, it is strickly i.m., (intramuscular)
it will gravitate to the injured site.
Do not inject in your joint capsule, the risk of infection is not worth the reward.
I work in a hospital. If I get the stuff, i have plenty of people to inject it.
No need to site inject, it is strickly i.m., (intramuscular)
it will gravitate to the injured site.
Do not inject in your joint capsule, the risk of infection is not worth the reward.
HOLY GREAT POST BATMAN! I will deffinatrly take the time to read this ive been having joint and tendon problems thanks bro!
Deca-Durabolin Weakens Tendons and Collagen
You can also find the below article in the December 2011 issue of Muscular Development on pages 198-200.
DECA-DURABOLIN Weakens Tendons and Collagen
If you are not visiting musculardevelopment.com on a daily basis, you are not getting breaking news and up-to-the-minute information. In a recent thread started in the NO BULL forums a person wrote, ???How come people don???t train like Ronnie anymore???? The thread talked about the change in the training style of all the bodybuilders to more high-volume training and less high-intensity training. With the exception of Branch Warren, there are not many pros who are training with high intensity. It may be because today???s bodybuilders don???t want to risk injury. Here is a list of some of the top bodybuilders who have suffered major injuries or tears during their training careers, off the top of my head:
Is it just a coincidence that bodybuilders are more likely to suffer injuries because of heavy training, or does the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) have any impact on tendon/collagen strength? The research is very preliminary, as only a few studies have examined the effects of AAS on tendon and collagen strength. It was shown that anabolic steroids alter the biomechanical properties of tendons and reduce tendon flexibility.(1,2,3)
Some interesting theories have been suggested as why heavy anabolic steroid use can cause tendon injury, which is based around cortisol production and AAS. Researches have demonstrated that AAS combined with tension overload reduced MMP2 activity (MMP2 is a gene responsible for collagen production) and increased serum values of cortisol.(4) During cortisol treatment, the serum levels of genes responsible for collagen production decrease, suggesting that cortisol suppresses the synthesis of collagen production.(5) The reduction in genes for collagen and tendons have been speculated as to why AAS makes bodybuilders susceptible to injuries. New research links the use of high doses of anabolic steroids to tendon and collagen dysfunction, which may make a bodybuilder think twice about training heavily while using anabolics.
GENE EXPRESSION IN TENDONS/COLLAGEN AFTER HEAVY AAS USE
Researchers in the European Journal of Applied Physiology examined how heavy use of the anabolic steroid Deca-Durabolin affected collagen strength in rats. The rats were separated into two groups: natural training and training with heavy anabolic steroid use. The dose the researchers administered to the rats was considered supra-physiological ??? Deca-Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) 5mg/kg of bodyweight.
The rats were cleverly forced to perform resistance exercise, but you can???t just tell a rat to start benching ??? so the researchers attached weights to the rats??? backs. They dropped the rats into a tank of water and the rats immediately jumped out of the water as soon as they were dunked. Every week, the researchers gradually made the weight on the rats??? backs heavier and heavier until at the end of seven weeks the weight was 80 percent of their bodyweight. The researchers dropped the rats in the tank so that they performed this for 4 sets x 10 repetitions of ???jumps??? with 30-second rest periods. After that, they rats were sacrificed and the rats??? tendons and collagen were examined for gene expression.
There were some very interesting findings after seven weeks of training with anabolic steroids, compared with the natty (natural) group of rats. The natty group did not have any biochemical changes in the rat tendon/collagen properties, while the anabolic steroid group had major changes.(6) The Deca-Durabolin group had reduced biochemical properties of genes involving tendon and collagen strength.
It is interesting to note that AAS administration reduced the accumulation of IGF-1 mRNA levels in some tendon regions, compared to the non-treated, trained group. This decrease of IGF-1 mRNA levels induced by AAS administration may be related to the observed decreases collagen expression when considering the possible connection between IGF-1 and collagen synthesis.(8) The AAS treatment also decreased the MMP-2 mRNA expression (this gene encodes an enzyme for collagen).
The above study is similar to another recently published study, which showed that nandrolone impaired the healing of rotator cuffs of rabbits. In the latter study, male rabbits underwent an incision in the rotator cuff and were divided into groups with anabolic steroids (nandrolone decanoate, 10mg/kg) and natural recovery. Groups that did not receive anabolic steroids showed better healing and more tendon strength compared to groups that received anabolic steroids. Microscopic examination of specimens from the groups with anabolic steroid use showed focal fibroblastic reaction and inflammation, suggesting an impaired healing response.(7)
The key point is that many of these studies were using supraphysiological dosages of steroids that could be like the typical Olympia stack ??? but the new research suggests that a high-volume approach to training with less weight may be a better approach to use for a bodybuilder than a high-intensity, heavy weight program that puts more stress on the tendons and makes them more susceptible to injury.
By Robbie Durand, M.A., Senior Science Editor of Muscular Development
References:
1. Evans NA, Bowrey DJ, Newman GR (1998) Ultrastructural analysis of ruptured tendon from anabolic steroid users. Injury, 29:769-773.
2: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Paschoal M, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2008) Matrix metallopeptidase 2 activity in tendon regions: effects of mechanical loading exercise associated to anabolic-androgenic steroids, Eur J Appl Physiol, 104:1087-1093.
3: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Wang CC, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Nakagaki WR, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2010). Biomechanical responses of different rat tendons to nandrolone decanoate and load exercise. Scand J Med Sci Sports, 29.
4: Marqueti RC, Parizotto NA, Chriguer RS, Perez SEA, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2006) Androgenic-anabolic steroids associated with mechanical loading inhibit matrix metallopeptidase activity and affect the remodeling of the Achilles tendon in rats. Am J Sport Med, 34:1274-1280.
5: Oikarinen A, Autio P, Vuori J, Va¨a¨na¨nen K, Risteli L, Kiistala U, Risteli J (1992) Systemic glucocorticoid treatment decreases serum concentrations of carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen and aminoterminal propeptide of type III procollagen. Br J Dermatol, 126:172-178.
6: Marqueti RC, Heinemeier KM, Durigan JL, de Andrade Perez SE, Schjerling P, Kjaer M, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS. Erratum to: Gene expression in distinct regions of rat tendons in response to jump training combined with anabolic androgenic steroid administration. Eur J Appl Physiol, 2011 Sep 8.
7: Papaspiliopoulos A, Papaparaskeva K, Papadopoulou E, Feroussis J, Papalois A, Zoubos A. The effect of local use of nandrolone decanoate on rotator cuff repair in rabbits. J Invest Surg, 2010 Aug;23(4):204-7.
8: Heinemeier KM, Olesen JL, Schjerling P, Hassad F, Langberg H, Baldwin KM, Kjaer M (2007b) Short-term strength training and the expression of myostatin and IGF-1 isoforms in rat muscle and tendon: differential effects of specific contraction types. J Appl Physiol, 102:573-581.
You can also find the below article in the December 2011 issue of Muscular Development on pages 198-200.
DECA-DURABOLIN Weakens Tendons and Collagen
If you are not visiting musculardevelopment.com on a daily basis, you are not getting breaking news and up-to-the-minute information. In a recent thread started in the NO BULL forums a person wrote, ???How come people don???t train like Ronnie anymore???? The thread talked about the change in the training style of all the bodybuilders to more high-volume training and less high-intensity training. With the exception of Branch Warren, there are not many pros who are training with high intensity. It may be because today???s bodybuilders don???t want to risk injury. Here is a list of some of the top bodybuilders who have suffered major injuries or tears during their training careers, off the top of my head:
- Dorian Yates: tricep/bicep
- Kevin Levrone: pec
- Rich Gaspari: pec
- Ronnie Coleman: tricep
- Berry de May: pec
- Chris Dickerson: pec
- Tom Platz: bicep
- Branch Warren: tricep/quad tendon
Is it just a coincidence that bodybuilders are more likely to suffer injuries because of heavy training, or does the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) have any impact on tendon/collagen strength? The research is very preliminary, as only a few studies have examined the effects of AAS on tendon and collagen strength. It was shown that anabolic steroids alter the biomechanical properties of tendons and reduce tendon flexibility.(1,2,3)
Some interesting theories have been suggested as why heavy anabolic steroid use can cause tendon injury, which is based around cortisol production and AAS. Researches have demonstrated that AAS combined with tension overload reduced MMP2 activity (MMP2 is a gene responsible for collagen production) and increased serum values of cortisol.(4) During cortisol treatment, the serum levels of genes responsible for collagen production decrease, suggesting that cortisol suppresses the synthesis of collagen production.(5) The reduction in genes for collagen and tendons have been speculated as to why AAS makes bodybuilders susceptible to injuries. New research links the use of high doses of anabolic steroids to tendon and collagen dysfunction, which may make a bodybuilder think twice about training heavily while using anabolics.
GENE EXPRESSION IN TENDONS/COLLAGEN AFTER HEAVY AAS USE
Researchers in the European Journal of Applied Physiology examined how heavy use of the anabolic steroid Deca-Durabolin affected collagen strength in rats. The rats were separated into two groups: natural training and training with heavy anabolic steroid use. The dose the researchers administered to the rats was considered supra-physiological ??? Deca-Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) 5mg/kg of bodyweight.
The rats were cleverly forced to perform resistance exercise, but you can???t just tell a rat to start benching ??? so the researchers attached weights to the rats??? backs. They dropped the rats into a tank of water and the rats immediately jumped out of the water as soon as they were dunked. Every week, the researchers gradually made the weight on the rats??? backs heavier and heavier until at the end of seven weeks the weight was 80 percent of their bodyweight. The researchers dropped the rats in the tank so that they performed this for 4 sets x 10 repetitions of ???jumps??? with 30-second rest periods. After that, they rats were sacrificed and the rats??? tendons and collagen were examined for gene expression.
There were some very interesting findings after seven weeks of training with anabolic steroids, compared with the natty (natural) group of rats. The natty group did not have any biochemical changes in the rat tendon/collagen properties, while the anabolic steroid group had major changes.(6) The Deca-Durabolin group had reduced biochemical properties of genes involving tendon and collagen strength.
It is interesting to note that AAS administration reduced the accumulation of IGF-1 mRNA levels in some tendon regions, compared to the non-treated, trained group. This decrease of IGF-1 mRNA levels induced by AAS administration may be related to the observed decreases collagen expression when considering the possible connection between IGF-1 and collagen synthesis.(8) The AAS treatment also decreased the MMP-2 mRNA expression (this gene encodes an enzyme for collagen).
The above study is similar to another recently published study, which showed that nandrolone impaired the healing of rotator cuffs of rabbits. In the latter study, male rabbits underwent an incision in the rotator cuff and were divided into groups with anabolic steroids (nandrolone decanoate, 10mg/kg) and natural recovery. Groups that did not receive anabolic steroids showed better healing and more tendon strength compared to groups that received anabolic steroids. Microscopic examination of specimens from the groups with anabolic steroid use showed focal fibroblastic reaction and inflammation, suggesting an impaired healing response.(7)
The key point is that many of these studies were using supraphysiological dosages of steroids that could be like the typical Olympia stack ??? but the new research suggests that a high-volume approach to training with less weight may be a better approach to use for a bodybuilder than a high-intensity, heavy weight program that puts more stress on the tendons and makes them more susceptible to injury.
By Robbie Durand, M.A., Senior Science Editor of Muscular Development
References:
1. Evans NA, Bowrey DJ, Newman GR (1998) Ultrastructural analysis of ruptured tendon from anabolic steroid users. Injury, 29:769-773.
2: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Paschoal M, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2008) Matrix metallopeptidase 2 activity in tendon regions: effects of mechanical loading exercise associated to anabolic-androgenic steroids, Eur J Appl Physiol, 104:1087-1093.
3: Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Wang CC, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Nakagaki WR, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2010). Biomechanical responses of different rat tendons to nandrolone decanoate and load exercise. Scand J Med Sci Sports, 29.
4: Marqueti RC, Parizotto NA, Chriguer RS, Perez SEA, Selistre-de-Araujo HS (2006) Androgenic-anabolic steroids associated with mechanical loading inhibit matrix metallopeptidase activity and affect the remodeling of the Achilles tendon in rats. Am J Sport Med, 34:1274-1280.
5: Oikarinen A, Autio P, Vuori J, Va¨a¨na¨nen K, Risteli L, Kiistala U, Risteli J (1992) Systemic glucocorticoid treatment decreases serum concentrations of carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen and aminoterminal propeptide of type III procollagen. Br J Dermatol, 126:172-178.
6: Marqueti RC, Heinemeier KM, Durigan JL, de Andrade Perez SE, Schjerling P, Kjaer M, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS. Erratum to: Gene expression in distinct regions of rat tendons in response to jump training combined with anabolic androgenic steroid administration. Eur J Appl Physiol, 2011 Sep 8.
7: Papaspiliopoulos A, Papaparaskeva K, Papadopoulou E, Feroussis J, Papalois A, Zoubos A. The effect of local use of nandrolone decanoate on rotator cuff repair in rabbits. J Invest Surg, 2010 Aug;23(4):204-7.
8: Heinemeier KM, Olesen JL, Schjerling P, Hassad F, Langberg H, Baldwin KM, Kjaer M (2007b) Short-term strength training and the expression of myostatin and IGF-1 isoforms in rat muscle and tendon: differential effects of specific contraction types. J Appl Physiol, 102:573-581.
