The NHE and ONE - cut and bulk

[Robboe]

Yes.

It's not mandatory.

I should be able to achieve similar results without it. And since my cycles aren't gonna be that long i don't feel it's totally warranted.

I also fogot to mention i'll be bumping up my zinc intake post cycle too.

 

[kuso]

I guess you are right with the two week cycles........will anything at all change if you do decide to go through to the full three weeks?

 

[Twin Peak]

Rob, what does the zinc do?

 

[Robboe]

Doubt it Kuso. I'll only invest in 6-OXO if i do a 4-6 week cycle.

The way it's shaping up since i upped the squirts, it'll probably alst me about 2.5 weeks, so that's ok.

On a side note, i forgot to mention about application that some may find useful. I used to apply all 4 squirts onto my chest and upper ab region, but it didn't seem to soak in properly. SO i've since moved areas to 1 squirt on my chest, 1 on my upper ab region, 1 on either side of my oblique/lat region (lift your arm, below the arm pit and a bit round the back area) and 1 squirt on either forearm on the inside. It seems to be absorbing MUCH better over a larger surface area.

TP, zinc is required for test production. If my test is suppressed a bit, it should aid a bit. Actually, this may be one of the times where ZMA can be useful (the other time being in zinc deficiency). I don't see the point in buying ZMA though, when zinc alone is much cheaper and does the job.

Zinc boosts (or can help boost or prevent drops) in leptin too. So can vitamin E, so i may take more of that (like 1200iu, 400iu thrice daily). Of course, since i'm in calorie surplus you've just gotta wonder how much difference the vitamine E will make, but i'll probably implement it anyway.

 

[Robboe]

Oh yes, i weighed myself this morning.

I'm 15st 7.5lbs.

That's 217.5lbs, which is 6lbs heavier in one week.

The thing is, i don't look or feel 6lbs heavier than last week. Then again, i see myself in the mirror everyday, so i doubt i could tell.

It's quite weird. Especially since i weighed in after a refeed last week, like i've mentioned.

So, i've been off NHE for about 11 days now, i think. And in that time, i've gained 22lbs.

Interesting...

 

[Robboe]

That's crazy.

2.5lbs more and i'll be at the weight i was at 22 weeks ago when i first began my 20 week cutting plan.

 

[kuso]

Thats great to hear TCD

Particularly, as you say, the last weigh in being after your refeed.

Very impressive!

Are you working out today?

 

[Robboe]

Damn fucking right i am.

I've had the past two days off and i was going nuts yesterday. I really wanted to lift. Calorie surplus always makes me like this. I've totally re-ignited my passion for heavy weight training.

I have back and calves soon.

 

[kuso]

Back and calves....yeah!

Make sure to post when you are done.

Shit....I gotta get my shoulder back in working order! lol I`m dying to try this!!!

 

[Twin Peak]

Wow, thats a serious gain. How do you look? Are you almost as lean? If so than excellent. My guess is though that up to 10 pounds of it is/can be water.

Good news on reigniting your passion for heavy weights. That's what its all about after all.

Hopefully your definition of HEAVY will change considerably over the next few weeks!

 

[Robboe]

Well i don't think i've put much fat on. I do know i'm holding a bit of water though. My midsection and upper torso look a bit 'puffier', basically, traits of water retention. So yeah, i' agree, if i went low carbs now i'd drop a shit load of water.

For leaneancy, my midsection looks just as bad as it did when i finished cutting - the top two abs pathetically poking through still.

Seriously though, if we decided that all 22lbs were fat (which they're not of course) then that's 77,000kcals worth. Which, over 11 days, requires me to eat 7000kcals a day. Which i haven't been doing.

If we say 10lbs is water, then 12lbs is 42,000kcals (if it's 12lbs fat that is) which means ~3800kcals a day, which is closer to the money.

But since i've not added 12lbs of fat, i've added no more than 2-4. But you'd expect ~8lbs of muscle to be quite visible.

Like i've said previously, my muscles do look bigger and fuller, but this is something i've only attributed to the glycogen.

We'll see when i weigh in next week. If i'm 230lbs you know it's the 1-T lol.

 

[Robboe]

Oh yeah, suppose i better amend the old diet a bit.

At 217lbs i am now eating about 18kcals per lb. I need to bump it to closer to 20kcals per lb, so i'll add about 200kcals on somewhere.

 

[Twin Peak]

Wow are you really that strict that you count to a tee? I just care about being in the vacinity of 4K, which, no doubt, you noticed on fitday.

 

[Robboe]

Well, not really strict no. It;s not something i was gonna mark down. I was just gonna do it mentally. For instance, if i was pouring out a bowl of oats and going for 84g, i may purposely spill over to 90g here and there.

Eat a bit more cottage cheese, a few more nuts. That sort of thing. I was just making public note of it so others could grasp a gist of what i do.

 

[Twin Peak]

Ahh, good to know.

BTW, never realized how many calories are in one little cup 'o nuts.

 

[Robboe]

Yup. They're calorie-dense little fuckers.

Good for when you need the cals and you don't feel like eating anymore. So is oil actually.

 

[Yanick]

Rob,

this is interesting stuff. I've had a hunch that you don't necessarily need 6-oxo when doing 2 week cycles as your HPTA is only starting to decline. So do you reckon i should even waste money on 6-oxo if i'm gonna be trying 2 week cycles like you?

 

[Robboe]

Funny you should ask. I just read something by par deus on AL saying that 6-OXO would be a good idea for shorter cycles since the testicular mass would still be present.

Never the less, i still don't plan on buying any 6-OXO.

Righty, good and bad news. Good news is that my session was good. Bad news is that the back of my neck is hurting like a bitch. Last week i felt a twinge in the back of my neck/trap area (if i had to pin it down, i'd say inside right of the trap portion II, if portion I is higher up connecting to the base of the skull). So it's in that vaccinity. Anyhoo, it subsided sharpish at the time so i thought nothing of it. But i got thorugh all of my rows no problem and moved onto shrugs. I warmed up up with a light weight and then waited a few minutes before going for my heavy set - a set which i actually put down in weight by 10kg per DB a few weeks back. Ironic or what. Anyhoo, i got 7 reps but had to stop because of the trap/neck pain. Sure i was annoyed and not being able to do a proper trap workout, but i'd rather be fit and injury free then risk problems for one set. Anyhoo, i stopped the workout then and there as far as back was concerned. I did some calf raises and then got out of there. I stood around talking to Danny the gym rat for a while and the pain seemed to get worse to the point where tipping my head back a certain distance causes some discomfort. It's eased a little now, but it's still painful. I just hope i'm good for tomorrow.

I did about 11 sets of vertical and horizontal rows before the fateful kneeling DB shrug set.

I was disappointed at first with my wide grip chins. I strapped 20kg round my waist and was hoping for about 4 reps (2 reps with this weight is a PB), but i only got two. I felt weak until i realised that due to my own weight, i was lifting an extra 10kg. Which is quite cool. SO i dropped to 15k and got 2 again and then with 10k i got 2 lol. So overall i was fucked haha. Anyhoo...

All my other sets progressed - BB rows, CG PD and low pulley row. So i'm good.

 

[Yanick]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Funny you should ask. I just read something by par deus on AL saying that 6-OXO would be a good idea for shorter cycles since the testicular mass would still be present.

Hmmm, i'm not sure what you're getting at, how is it better because of the testicular mass being there? I thought that 6-oxo would help recover estrogen, ie bring testicular mass to normal.

I do know that it can be used as an anti-e. But i don't see the connection

 

[Robboe]

I imagine he means that since the Testicular mass is still there, that it would help spurn a recovery of Test quicker than if the clems were totally raisined.

Other than that i'm not sure.

 

[Yanick]

oh ok.

and i meant test in my previous post, 6 oxo helps brings test back to baseline not estrogen.

 

[Robboe]

I had a feeling this would happen.

My interest is being diverted away from fat loss biochemistry and more towards hypertrophy biochem.

It always seems to happen depending on what goals i currently have.

 

[Twin Peak]

Makes sense. Do you think this is a problem?

 

[Robboe]

Nah not really, but in general, my interest in the biochemistry behind hypertrophy is negible and when i start gaining it takes over my interest in fat loss, so i tend to fall behind on the newer info a bit.

Of course it's not something i'm gonna lose sleep over. I could always do with a bit more muscle

 

[Twin Peak]

Exactly! Or a lot more muscle!

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Exactly! Or a lot more muscle!

Haha!!!!

Translation:

"Rob, you're a skinny little bitch."

 

[Yanick]

Rob,

i just figured out how to change the name of the thread. Go to your very first post and edit/delete it. Then just change the subject line. voila!

and yes, i have no life

 

[Twin Peak]

Funny! No, it was a ONE, comment.

 

[Jenny]

to a great thread.. I tried reading it all, but I kinda got an headache after the first 5 pages..

How much have you lost in total? I kinda feel like trying this myself..
Your a very knowledgeable man.. that's for sure..

NG

 

[Robboe]

Yan, go see, i tried that last week to no avail.

Miss _Girl, i dieted for 20 weeks in total. The first 10 weeks were a modified version of NHE with carb loads occuring after training (so three times a week). In those ten weeks i went from 220lbs to 207.5lbs. And for the remaining ten weeks i shifted to full NHE and went from 207.5lbs to 195.5lbs. So that's like 24.5lbs lost in 20 weeks. Which is more or less 1lb a week.

But the funniest part of it was that within 11 days of coming off NHE, and after carbing up and putting on water/glycogen weight and eating more food, i'm back up to 217.5lbs. And more or less at the same bf% when i finished cutting (although my waist is ~2" bigger now cause my stomach has stretched loads from all the food i'm now eating and the water retention etc...).

If i lowered my carbs and calories a bit, within a week i reckon i'd probably lose ~10lbs water, give or take a few lbs. Crazy eh?

There's a photo from september somewhere in here on one of the last 5-10 pages if you haven't seen it.