RoosterTX
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Are you advocating doing sprints and also lifting legs on the same day?
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Training around a back injury
- Thread starter RoosterTX
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Are you advocating doing sprints and also lifting legs on the same day?
RoosterTX
Registered
Leg Lift 05/05/2009
I know this isn't a training log and i don't plan to hijack the thread and use it as one but...
I figured for the next three weeks I would post my leg workouts, how it felt on the disc (I have a herniated disc l5 S-1), and how it was in terms of intesity.
05-05-09
Squats (rest was about 1:30-2):
10X135
8X185
8X185
8X185
8X185
8X185
6X205
6X205
4X215
4X215
5 sets of the following:
10 single leg ham curls (65 lbs hammer strength)
20 seated calf raises (85lbs)
Felt good. No back pain beyond the usual today. Pretty sore.
I know this isn't a training log and i don't plan to hijack the thread and use it as one but...
I figured for the next three weeks I would post my leg workouts, how it felt on the disc (I have a herniated disc l5 S-1), and how it was in terms of intesity.
05-05-09
Squats (rest was about 1:30-2):
10X135
8X185
8X185
8X185
8X185
8X185
6X205
6X205
4X215
4X215
5 sets of the following:
10 single leg ham curls (65 lbs hammer strength)
20 seated calf raises (85lbs)
Felt good. No back pain beyond the usual today. Pretty sore.
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Patrick thanks for taking your time with such a detailed answer! I appreciate you knowledge being shared as well as the fact you are not all ego DO WHAT I SAY .Very professionally worded and delivered.
I am fortunate enough to have a copy of Take Chargeso I will be able to see what you are talking about in regards to the exercises you mentioned. (for those of us who are visual learners and just read this page as "words, words, words"
I will be back to the gym in 8 weeks for lower work and the information you gave me here actually motivates me more to seek out my PT crew to help me with the hip mobility vs spine mobility. My hips are almost locked into a crooked position which is either a result of the stenosis or the cause? Hypothetical thoughts here?
I am fortunate enough to have a copy of Take Chargeso I will be able to see what you are talking about in regards to the exercises you mentioned. (for those of us who are visual learners and just read this page as "words, words, words"
I will be back to the gym in 8 weeks for lower work and the information you gave me here actually motivates me more to seek out my PT crew to help me with the hip mobility vs spine mobility. My hips are almost locked into a crooked position which is either a result of the stenosis or the cause? Hypothetical thoughts here?
"Locked in a crooked position", as in hip flexion (anterior tilt)?
It could be a chicken or an egg thing. Unfortunately, static posture doesn't always dictate dynamic capacity, so that may or may not be the cause of the issue. This is why having someone assess dynamic movement as well as static posture is helpful for making sense of the big picture. For all you know, the cause may just have been a significant amount of loading overtime, or something to that effect. At any rate, if your hips are "locked up" and hip mobility is impaired, then that is probably something that you are going to want to try and remedy, as the limitation may be leading to something more significant up the chain. Soft tissue work for the hip flexors can be very helpful and you can do some stuff to just treat yourself and improve tissue quality. Then follow that up with some lengthening and strengthening to develop better function and movement.
patrick
RoosterTX
Registered
How would you set up that days program?
Warm-Up/Dynamics-Sprint-Weights moving from one to the next, or would you structure in some kind of rest and recovery period? If so how long of a recovery period?
huh? I thought I answered that in the previous few posts? Are you asking something different?
patrick
Rooster, it's all in the "summary" post http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/98706-training-around-back-injury.html#post1893467
RoosterTX
Registered
I see that your progression was: warm-up/sprint work/lift. I'm wondering if you just move from one to the next, or whether you structure in additional rest (5-10 min or whatever) between the sprints and the lifts. I generally try to get out to a track to do my sprints, treadmills just don't work for me on sprint intervals, and the closest track is about 20 away from the facility where I weight train. If I do my sprints and lifts back to back I'm going to have a 20 minute car ride in between, plus 15 minutes of logistics. That being said might it be better to try and break the workouts in two, doing sprint work in the am and lifting in the pm, or should I be unconcerend by the 35 min cool-down car ride.
I'm sorry, I haven't been very clear about what it is that I'm getting at. Thanks your your help.
I'm sorry, I haven't been very clear about what it is that I'm getting at. Thanks your your help.
I see what you are saying.
Breaking them up between AM and PM is certainly a good option.
As for the 35min. of cooldown between the sprinting and the lifting, if you are going to do them in the same session like that, I would just make sure that you appropriately warm up and prepare yourself prior to lifting, following the cooldown. You can certainly sip a shake during the 35min. break, as built has suggested.
patrick
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I think it is a chicken/egg thing. My right hip is forced forward while my left hip is forced back so it is twisting of the hips actually ( I am broken LOL).
I have to work on tight hip flexors as well as recovery from the resulting damage to the spine and surrounding tissue.
Thanks a lot of this thread--and advice!
Damn, to bad you don't live closer. You sound like you would be a great case study for some of the things I have been checking out.
patrick
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thesaurus123
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very handy thanks
thesaurus123
Registered
i once pulled a back muscle, very painful
verybigguy
Registered
Damn there is some nice info out there. Thx very much guys
Hi guys ive been reading some of the forums for a few days and decided to get an answer more tailored to my situation. I have a back condition called Spondylolisthesis which according to WebMD is a condition in which a bone (vertebra) in the lower part of the spine slips forward and onto a bone below it. Its a congenital defect which reared its head while I was in high school playing baseball, but not really cause by anything. (i am 22 now).
I am looking to get back in shape and want to work with a personal trainer but want to get my core strength up before I start. My 5th lumbar has a microfracture that will never completely heal up and occasionally hurts a bit if I sit in certain positions for long periods at a time. It seems from what I have read in this thread that the plank exercise is the best way to get your strength up in the lower back. But are there any other things that I could also be doing, mostly at home, that will make my back stronger to make up for my condition?
BTW im 22 about 5'10'' and 160ish pounds. My goal in the long run is to reduce my body fat % and just become more "fit". Im not concerned about building mass or losing weight as long as I can get rid of this little bit of fat that hangs around my belly.
Cheers
I am looking to get back in shape and want to work with a personal trainer but want to get my core strength up before I start. My 5th lumbar has a microfracture that will never completely heal up and occasionally hurts a bit if I sit in certain positions for long periods at a time. It seems from what I have read in this thread that the plank exercise is the best way to get your strength up in the lower back. But are there any other things that I could also be doing, mostly at home, that will make my back stronger to make up for my condition?
BTW im 22 about 5'10'' and 160ish pounds. My goal in the long run is to reduce my body fat % and just become more "fit". Im not concerned about building mass or losing weight as long as I can get rid of this little bit of fat that hangs around my belly.
Cheers
A lot of posts on here are good information for a healthy person taking their fitness to a new level. The problem is, once you are injured, understanding what inflames and aggravates an existing injury may not be the expertise of the bodybuilders posting. I am a trained PT and my previous jobs had me taking people with back injuries & rehabbing them to a normal strength and flexibility.
If you have sciatica, that means the nerve is sending abnormal symptoms, typically pain or numbness down a leg. To me, I would want to create an exercise plan that allows for strengthening without inflamming the damaged area. and the damaged area is around the herniation. Just because you have a herniation, doesn't mean you are abnormal. Over 30% of the population has a herniation that would be diagnosed but are symptom free.
One thing to remember while exercising is posture. Posture with all your exercises is paramount, especially when there is an injury. Poor posture can lead to additional damage to the area and pain and suffering as a result. If you've gone for therapy, I'm sure they taught you how to tighten your abs in a "neutral position". This is defined as a mid point between arching and flattening your back. Its a comfortable mid range that you hold stiff by tightening your abs. This is a skill you need to remember while exercising as it will keep you from causing damage. Second thing to remember is do not combine motions. You are either flexing/extending, or rotating. Do not combine them all..this is a sure way to cause damage. Personally, I'd skip out on the rotation exercises because I just can't think of any that are essential for your rehab..can't think of any that would make a significant improvement in your goal or getting back to normal.
Intensity of exercise. Depending on your exercise, it might be too soon for you to be pushing yourself to the point of valsalva. When you have to almost hold your breath and push down really hard. Remember, there are fluids in your body that circulate around you spinal column and brain and when you do this grunting-holding your breath-maximum pushing it messes with the pressure and flow of this fluid.. You might have heard of cerebro spinal fluid when people talk about migraines-headaches...its the same thing. I'm not exactly sure how this would effect you, but if it causes pain for you and hindered your progress, its just not worth it to do these heavy exercises so soon.
After exercising, even if you aren't in pain or feeling more symptoms, assume you have inflammed things. Although muscle contractions help wick away inflammation, the stress you are putting on yourself may also be causing symptoms you will experience later that evening..lets treat it before it hurts. This means, put yourself in a therapeutic position that will "undo" the damage of your workout. Best position is on your belly, on your elbows similar to how kids watch tv. They say the best thing to do is to spend the same amount of time in this position as you spend in a potentially hurtful position. I say, if you can tolerate a 30 minute citcom with an icepack on your back, you will be taking down internal swelling and repositioning the herniation so it doesn't cause symptoms that will ruin your night.
There's your free consult. lol If you went to PT, I'd be billing out atleast $150 an hour, teaching this to you, and giving you a stabilization home exercise program. Progress cautiously and even if you arent feeling pain, it would be smart to continue with the prone on elbows and icing until you get rid of the sciatica. You should notice it will recede back up your leg and eventually localize..that will be a good thing. If you have any questions, you can IM me,,therapy is more of a hobby these days for me than anything. Good luck to you.
oh, and I almost forgot. flexibility. stretching your hamstrings. Don't forget to do this, but do it in a safe way..like laying on your back in a doorway with one leg through the doorway and the other leg up the wall. work your butt closer and closer to the wall..that's the best way for a back injury. Dont forget this stretch. Its important.
If you have sciatica, that means the nerve is sending abnormal symptoms, typically pain or numbness down a leg. To me, I would want to create an exercise plan that allows for strengthening without inflamming the damaged area. and the damaged area is around the herniation. Just because you have a herniation, doesn't mean you are abnormal. Over 30% of the population has a herniation that would be diagnosed but are symptom free.
One thing to remember while exercising is posture. Posture with all your exercises is paramount, especially when there is an injury. Poor posture can lead to additional damage to the area and pain and suffering as a result. If you've gone for therapy, I'm sure they taught you how to tighten your abs in a "neutral position". This is defined as a mid point between arching and flattening your back. Its a comfortable mid range that you hold stiff by tightening your abs. This is a skill you need to remember while exercising as it will keep you from causing damage. Second thing to remember is do not combine motions. You are either flexing/extending, or rotating. Do not combine them all..this is a sure way to cause damage. Personally, I'd skip out on the rotation exercises because I just can't think of any that are essential for your rehab..can't think of any that would make a significant improvement in your goal or getting back to normal.
Intensity of exercise. Depending on your exercise, it might be too soon for you to be pushing yourself to the point of valsalva. When you have to almost hold your breath and push down really hard. Remember, there are fluids in your body that circulate around you spinal column and brain and when you do this grunting-holding your breath-maximum pushing it messes with the pressure and flow of this fluid.. You might have heard of cerebro spinal fluid when people talk about migraines-headaches...its the same thing. I'm not exactly sure how this would effect you, but if it causes pain for you and hindered your progress, its just not worth it to do these heavy exercises so soon.
After exercising, even if you aren't in pain or feeling more symptoms, assume you have inflammed things. Although muscle contractions help wick away inflammation, the stress you are putting on yourself may also be causing symptoms you will experience later that evening..lets treat it before it hurts. This means, put yourself in a therapeutic position that will "undo" the damage of your workout. Best position is on your belly, on your elbows similar to how kids watch tv. They say the best thing to do is to spend the same amount of time in this position as you spend in a potentially hurtful position. I say, if you can tolerate a 30 minute citcom with an icepack on your back, you will be taking down internal swelling and repositioning the herniation so it doesn't cause symptoms that will ruin your night.
There's your free consult. lol If you went to PT, I'd be billing out atleast $150 an hour, teaching this to you, and giving you a stabilization home exercise program. Progress cautiously and even if you arent feeling pain, it would be smart to continue with the prone on elbows and icing until you get rid of the sciatica. You should notice it will recede back up your leg and eventually localize..that will be a good thing. If you have any questions, you can IM me,,therapy is more of a hobby these days for me than anything. Good luck to you.
oh, and I almost forgot. flexibility. stretching your hamstrings. Don't forget to do this, but do it in a safe way..like laying on your back in a doorway with one leg through the doorway and the other leg up the wall. work your butt closer and closer to the wall..that's the best way for a back injury. Dont forget this stretch. Its important.
E
ectomorph141
I slipped a disk in my back last year that ended up pinching my sciatic nerve. I could not stand up for 3 days. I was locked in a 90 degree stance. Worse pain I have ever delt with in my life. Took about 3 weeks until I could finally walk decent again. Ice directly on the back helped a lot. The main problem was the numbness in my right leg from the pinched sciatic nerve.
I damaged it by spending months and months bent over working on cars, installing a sprinkler system, using some stupid round edging tool, and many other things I did bent over outside. Just totally destroyed it. Golfing also destroyed it. The only way I could get it to heal was to take 3 months and do nothing at all. If I had to lift something I had help, if I had to pick something up I asked someone else to do it.
Now here it is almost a year later and I have made a 99% recovery. Now I am hack squating over 200lbs and deadlifting over 200lbs. But I started slow. I was only deadlifting about 20lbs when I started and slowly worked my way up. Same with squats. Started with 20lbs. Just make sure you move slow while doing the reps. No jerking, no slamming or quick motion. Slow and easy and very light at first. Recovery is possible but is a slow process.
I damaged it by spending months and months bent over working on cars, installing a sprinkler system, using some stupid round edging tool, and many other things I did bent over outside. Just totally destroyed it. Golfing also destroyed it. The only way I could get it to heal was to take 3 months and do nothing at all. If I had to lift something I had help, if I had to pick something up I asked someone else to do it.
Now here it is almost a year later and I have made a 99% recovery. Now I am hack squating over 200lbs and deadlifting over 200lbs. But I started slow. I was only deadlifting about 20lbs when I started and slowly worked my way up. Same with squats. Started with 20lbs. Just make sure you move slow while doing the reps. No jerking, no slamming or quick motion. Slow and easy and very light at first. Recovery is possible but is a slow process.
Last edited:
Grateful for all the info provided here. A little over a year ago I had Back surgery. L-3/L-4 Diskectomy and L-4/L-5 Laminectomy, along with signifigant nerve damage repair. I come from a powerlifing background, so you can imagine that I needed to adjust my gym routines a bit. At 43 years old I felt like I was learning how to lift all over again. Things are getting better now, but the first eight months after surgery were pretty dicey. Four months of virtually no activity followed by another four months of physical therapy. I was very fortunate that I had a great surgeon, and I am back to almost 100%. I never knew how much pain I was living with until after the surgery healed. I may never get back to being a member of the one-ton club, but I can function pretty well in the gym, and do most any movement, provided I am careful and strict with my form. Overall, the experience left me feeling lucky to be able to lift weights at all. Very scary stuff. Fairly new to this forum, and I am very impressed with the discussion level and quality of information on a variety of topics. Good stuff!
Wow, I am glad I joined this forum. There is a lot of great info and this thread is exactly what I was looking for. I have a bulging disc at L5 S1 and I have had 5 cortizone epidural shots already. I am hoping that by incorporating a lot of the suggested stretches and exercises that I can keep from getting those shots and avoid a herniated disc and surgery one day. I wish I had something to contribute like Cheappinz and P-funk. I am going to be using a lot of this info to start working on my core stabalization. Thanks again to everyone!
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- Curling in the squat rack!!!!!!!!
Thought the exercise selection here was helpful, especially for the lower body.
I can give you a piece of advice (as a licenced PT I'm not just guessing an exercise for you..)
1. did you notice the exercise you are comfortable with are very stabile exercises meaning there's a one directional movement occuring that you have total control over.
*anyone with a back injury and anyone in general should avoid combined loaded movements..the quickest way to create an injury or inflame an existing one. This means don't do an exercise that has you bending over and also twisting.
*twisting: I don't think I've ever given out an exercise with a twisting movement for a back injury...basically the only one I can think of is an ab contraction where you go diagonally and I'd consider that motion advanced. For an inflamed injury, I'd stick with straight forward motion. You can control it better.
Valsalva: This is when you hold your breath and bear down to lift something heavy. We do it all the time and its usually not a problem, but if you have an injury, doing this changes the pressure in the spinal fluid and may exacerbate painful symptoms. So don't do it if it causes pain either during or after.
Sciatica: If you have symptoms running down your leg you must realize its coming from your back. The disk is like a marshmallow and with the typical poor posture we have during the day, it encourages this marshmallow to push back posteriorly towards the spinal nerves. When it gets too close, the sciatica starts as a warning there is something wrong. You spend a lot of time during the day in a poor position, so you should spend a lengthy period in a therapeutic position.
*If you sit a lot, you should either put a fanny pack with a thick facecloth roll strapped to your office chair(a lumbar support), and if you know you work hunched over, you should spend atleast 30 minutes watching a show on your stomach up on your elbows (like kids do) as daily therapy..this will help suck the disk back anteriorly to deminish the symptoms.
exercises: Sounds like you already would drop the weight if you felt it hurt you. good common sense. I'd recommend sticking with the one directional exercises you can do with complete control and balance. I'd cut out any rotational weighted exercises that may require you to plant your feet and twist..that's how people get and stay hurt.
1. did you notice the exercise you are comfortable with are very stabile exercises meaning there's a one directional movement occuring that you have total control over.
*anyone with a back injury and anyone in general should avoid combined loaded movements..the quickest way to create an injury or inflame an existing one. This means don't do an exercise that has you bending over and also twisting.
*twisting: I don't think I've ever given out an exercise with a twisting movement for a back injury...basically the only one I can think of is an ab contraction where you go diagonally and I'd consider that motion advanced. For an inflamed injury, I'd stick with straight forward motion. You can control it better.
Valsalva: This is when you hold your breath and bear down to lift something heavy. We do it all the time and its usually not a problem, but if you have an injury, doing this changes the pressure in the spinal fluid and may exacerbate painful symptoms. So don't do it if it causes pain either during or after.
Sciatica: If you have symptoms running down your leg you must realize its coming from your back. The disk is like a marshmallow and with the typical poor posture we have during the day, it encourages this marshmallow to push back posteriorly towards the spinal nerves. When it gets too close, the sciatica starts as a warning there is something wrong. You spend a lot of time during the day in a poor position, so you should spend a lengthy period in a therapeutic position.
*If you sit a lot, you should either put a fanny pack with a thick facecloth roll strapped to your office chair(a lumbar support), and if you know you work hunched over, you should spend atleast 30 minutes watching a show on your stomach up on your elbows (like kids do) as daily therapy..this will help suck the disk back anteriorly to deminish the symptoms.
exercises: Sounds like you already would drop the weight if you felt it hurt you. good common sense. I'd recommend sticking with the one directional exercises you can do with complete control and balance. I'd cut out any rotational weighted exercises that may require you to plant your feet and twist..that's how people get and stay hurt.
