-
Hello, this board in now turned off and no new posting.
Please REGISTER at Anabolic Steroid Forums, and become a member of our NEW community!
-
Check Out IronMag Labs® KSM-66 Max - Recovery and Anabolic Growth Complex
Walker wins wisconsin again
- Thread starter FUZO
- Start date
Pittsburgh63
Registered
That's a huge hit to organized labor. It's going to start a chain reaction in the Anti Union movement.
Who really gives a shit? I mean besides some braindead morons who are all worked up thinking that politicians actually work in the best interests of their constituents.
Unions can live without collective bargaining; it's not like they will just go away. Welcome to being a regular worker that pays and has no guarantees and has to actually work to keep their job. Unions have a purpose but they are lead by some greedy SOBs who care not about the union members.
Pittsburgh63
Registered
Collective bargaining allows Unions to negotiate working conditions among other things.. without it.. wage is the only allowable negotiation. Doesn't really have anything to do with who runs the unions or their interests.. or anything to do with working to keep your job. You obviously aren't very familiar with Union labor or "collective bargaining."
Most people haven't a clue what collective bargaining is about.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 5,540
- Reaction score
- 2,556
- Points
- 0
If something positive can be said about Obama winning in 2008, its that progressives, liberals and Democrats have been overwhelmingly defeated on the state and federal level ever since. Lots of Obama buyer's remorse out there.
Just think about how many teachers jobs and pensions could have been saved with the tens of millions the unions, DNC and the special interests pumped into a losing campaign to oust Walker.
Just think about how many teachers jobs and pensions could have been saved with the tens of millions the unions, DNC and the special interests pumped into a losing campaign to oust Walker.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 5,540
- Reaction score
- 2,556
- Points
- 0
SAN DIEGO (AP) — Voters in two major California cities overwhelmingly approved cuts to retirement benefits for city workers in what supporters said was a mandate that may lead to similar ballot initiatives in other states and cities that are struggling with mounting pension obligations.
Supporters had a simple message to voters in San Diego and San Jose: Pensions for city workers are unaffordable and more generous than many private companies offer, forcing libraries to slash hours and potholes to go unfilled.
"The public is frustrated," said San Diego Councilman Carl DeMaio, a Republican who staked his mayoral bid on the pension measure and advanced to a November runoff in Tuesday's election to lead the nation's eighth-largest city.
In San Diego, 66 percent voted in favor of Proposition B, while 34 percent were opposed. Nearly 97 percent of precincts were tallied by early Wednesday.
The landslide was even bigger in San Jose, the nation's 10th-largest city. With all precincts counted, 70 percent were in favor of Measure B and 30 percent were opposed.
"The voters get it, they understand what needs to be done," said San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed, a Democrat who has called pensions his highest priority.
Shrinking tax revenues during the recession are also responsible for service cuts in San Diego and San Jose, but pensions were an easy target. San Diego's payments to the city's retirement fund soared from $43 million in 1999 to $231.2 million this year, equal to 20 percent of the city's general fund budget, which pays for day-to-day operations.
As the pension payments grew, San Diego's 1.3 million residents saw roads deteriorate and libraries and recreation centers cut hours. For a while, some fire stations had to share engines and trucks. The city has cut its workforce 14 percent to 10,100 employees since Sanders took office in 2005.
San Jose's pension payments jumped from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million this year, equal to 27 percent of its general fund budget. Voters there approved construction bonds at the beginning of the last decade, but four new libraries and a police station have never opened because the city cannot afford to operate them. The city of 960,000 cut its workforce 27 percent to 5,400 over the last 10 years.
Tuesday's votes set the stage for potentially lengthy legal challenges by public employee unions. The measures are unusual because they address pensions for current employees, not just new hires.
Opponents say the measures deprive workers of benefits they were counting on when they got hired. Some workers decided against potentially more lucrative jobs with private companies, figuring their retirement was relatively safe.
Those arguments failed to resonate with voters.
"A lot of employees are disheartened," said Yolanda Cruz, president of the San Jose Municipal Employees Federation, who called the outcome disappointing. "We've been made the full problem of what's been going on."
The ballot measures differ on specifics. San Diego's imposes a six-year freeze on pay levels used to determine pension benefits unless a two-thirds majority of the City Council votes to override it. It also puts new hires, except for police officers, into 401(k)-style plans.
More than 100,000 residents signed petitions to put the San Diego measure on the ballot.
Under San Jose's measure, current workers have to pay up to 16 percent of their salaries to keep their retirement plan or accept more modest benefits. New hires would get less generous benefits.
Reed joined an 8-3 City Council majority to put the measure on the ballot. He said after Tuesday's vote that he expected other cities in financial binds to pursue similar measures.
"It's novel but it's certainly not radical," he said. "Mayors across the country are very interested. We're at the leading edge but we're not alone."
Supporters had a simple message to voters in San Diego and San Jose: Pensions for city workers are unaffordable and more generous than many private companies offer, forcing libraries to slash hours and potholes to go unfilled.
"The public is frustrated," said San Diego Councilman Carl DeMaio, a Republican who staked his mayoral bid on the pension measure and advanced to a November runoff in Tuesday's election to lead the nation's eighth-largest city.
In San Diego, 66 percent voted in favor of Proposition B, while 34 percent were opposed. Nearly 97 percent of precincts were tallied by early Wednesday.
The landslide was even bigger in San Jose, the nation's 10th-largest city. With all precincts counted, 70 percent were in favor of Measure B and 30 percent were opposed.
"The voters get it, they understand what needs to be done," said San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed, a Democrat who has called pensions his highest priority.
Shrinking tax revenues during the recession are also responsible for service cuts in San Diego and San Jose, but pensions were an easy target. San Diego's payments to the city's retirement fund soared from $43 million in 1999 to $231.2 million this year, equal to 20 percent of the city's general fund budget, which pays for day-to-day operations.
As the pension payments grew, San Diego's 1.3 million residents saw roads deteriorate and libraries and recreation centers cut hours. For a while, some fire stations had to share engines and trucks. The city has cut its workforce 14 percent to 10,100 employees since Sanders took office in 2005.
San Jose's pension payments jumped from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million this year, equal to 27 percent of its general fund budget. Voters there approved construction bonds at the beginning of the last decade, but four new libraries and a police station have never opened because the city cannot afford to operate them. The city of 960,000 cut its workforce 27 percent to 5,400 over the last 10 years.
Tuesday's votes set the stage for potentially lengthy legal challenges by public employee unions. The measures are unusual because they address pensions for current employees, not just new hires.
Opponents say the measures deprive workers of benefits they were counting on when they got hired. Some workers decided against potentially more lucrative jobs with private companies, figuring their retirement was relatively safe.
Those arguments failed to resonate with voters.
"A lot of employees are disheartened," said Yolanda Cruz, president of the San Jose Municipal Employees Federation, who called the outcome disappointing. "We've been made the full problem of what's been going on."
The ballot measures differ on specifics. San Diego's imposes a six-year freeze on pay levels used to determine pension benefits unless a two-thirds majority of the City Council votes to override it. It also puts new hires, except for police officers, into 401(k)-style plans.
More than 100,000 residents signed petitions to put the San Diego measure on the ballot.
Under San Jose's measure, current workers have to pay up to 16 percent of their salaries to keep their retirement plan or accept more modest benefits. New hires would get less generous benefits.
Reed joined an 8-3 City Council majority to put the measure on the ballot. He said after Tuesday's vote that he expected other cities in financial binds to pursue similar measures.
"It's novel but it's certainly not radical," he said. "Mayors across the country are very interested. We're at the leading edge but we're not alone."
Just remember that those numbers are "equal to" 20% and 27% of their operating budgets, not 20% and 27% OF their operating budgets. Government has a lot of mismanagement going on that, just like in the private sector, monetary shortfalls get blamed on the people not in charge of things.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 5,540
- Reaction score
- 2,556
- Points
- 0
I agree 100%. There's absolutely no reason our federal government couldn't be shrunk by 25% without most people noticing.
There's also no reason the four branches of the military and the Coast Guard couldn't be combined into one or two entities but that would go over like a fart in church. Just think of the money we could save?
Why can't the FBI/DEA/ATF/Homeland Security/US Marshall's/Border Patrol operate under one roof?
All I know is when I broke my femur, snapped my ACL in half, and tore my meniscus, the whole thing cost me $10. That was do to the union fighting for healthcare for us middle class construction workers. The shop owners agreed to the contract and we work hard for them. I've worked nonunion piece shops. "slam and go" was the motto. Tons of shotty work and people's homes. Pretty sickening.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 5,540
- Reaction score
- 2,556
- Points
- 0
Keep in mind that's ^^^ private sector while the Wisconsin and San Diego thing is public sector. In both states, what you have witnessed is the taxpayer, who actually employs the public employees, stand up and say we're in a recession, the city/state is up to its ear in debt and you're gonna take a cut like the rest of us because you work for us not your union.
I love how people argue about working conditions and benefits when every state agency I have dealt with is the model of inefficiency. Growth, cost savings, improved service levels make the argument for wage and benefit increases a non-issue; these are never highlighted as reasons because they aren't. Private unions tend to be very effective and I have zero issue with them as they are much more flexible. Public unions we all pay for, at some point you need to stop blindly supporting these when they don't do what they are there to do. Boggles the mind. I could give a shit what party you are from, just earn what you are asking for and realize your job is not a guarantee.
irish_2003
Board Rep
yes it was a beautiful day yesterday...more importantly the margin of victory was considerably greater in this attempted recall than in our governors actual election in 2010...TGFSW
independent
Registered
This^^^^^^
jagbender
Registered
As a usually liberal Dem, I agree with this. Don't forget that exit polls on Walker supporters said nearly 20% would vote for Obama. Not a totally partisan issue.
Hey Jagbender...I'm in Fort Myers.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 5,540
- Reaction score
- 2,556
- Points
- 0
Two of my employees were long time construction workers in Coral Gables. One fled in 06 the other in 07.
the debt in Wisconsin was not caused by public sector unions.
across all 50 states in the US public debt from state and local governments has increased since the early 60's. which is when the US economy as a whole started to slow down after several decades of prosperity carried over from WWII manufacturing. the rest of the world caught up to the wealthy country's in the west.
in 1969 Wisconsin changed their Constitution in terms of how debt would be used, prior it was just for capital projects after the change the state became their own lender. debt in the form of bonds were used to not only pay for capital projects but for most all other expenses. as the cost of goods and services steadily increase as does the effects of cumulative inflation and a record low national savings rates all US states have increased borrowing to pay for capital projects. Bond holders have to be paid interest.
there is only 2 things that can be done with the cost of goods and services increase: tax and spend or borrow and spend
across all 50 states in the US public debt from state and local governments has increased since the early 60's. which is when the US economy as a whole started to slow down after several decades of prosperity carried over from WWII manufacturing. the rest of the world caught up to the wealthy country's in the west.
in 1969 Wisconsin changed their Constitution in terms of how debt would be used, prior it was just for capital projects after the change the state became their own lender. debt in the form of bonds were used to not only pay for capital projects but for most all other expenses. as the cost of goods and services steadily increase as does the effects of cumulative inflation and a record low national savings rates all US states have increased borrowing to pay for capital projects. Bond holders have to be paid interest.
there is only 2 things that can be done with the cost of goods and services increase: tax and spend or borrow and spend
Well I work for a major union that is widely known and they suck. There not for the worker there in bed with the company making money off us workers and when its time to help us or fight for are job they dont,they say "so sorry no happy ending for you"
No.
This is an OHIO ISSUE. Period.
I cannot stand Obama. He's a major disappointment. I did not vote for him (nor McCain) last time and I won't be voting for BO this time.
But do not take a state issue with a certain state constituency under a particular state of circumstances and apply it nationally.
This is about Ohio. And only Ohio.
And I will add to this:
Even wages are not negotiable.
These companies offer a wage or salary of X amount.
You either accept it or you do not.
If you do not accept the wage, the company hires someone that will accept it. And there are plenty of people that will.
jagbender
Registered
35 Miles North of You in North Port
jagbender
Registered
“If the single man plant himself indomitably on his instincts, and there abide, the huge world will come round to him.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson.
Great Scotts! Just as Scott Brown’s 2010 victory in Massachusetts foretold the Republican rout later that year, so Scott Walker’s win is but a foretaste of the November election’s likely result. Polls come and go. But when a Republican governor, in a Democratic state that Obama carried by 14 points in 2008, wins by seven points (Walker 53% – Barrett 46%), it shows how overwhelming our victory later this year will be. Add to these facts the high turnout in Wisconsin (over 60 percent, compared with less than 50% in 2010) and the handwriting is clearly on the wall for Obama.
But the real meaning of the Walker victory goes far beyond its obvious role as a predictor of the fall elections. It marks the same kind of catalyst for a downward decline in state and local public employee unions that the air traffic controllers’ strike in the 80s signaled for federal and private sector unions in general. It is the beginning of the end of their reign of power – or terror – over our states and localities.
While only 7% of the private sector labor force is unionized, 41% of state and local government employees are. A majority of union members are now public employees. After foreign competition has decimated private sector unions, the labor movement has found new power in using it leverage over complicit legislators to prey on helpless taxpayers.
But, in Wisconsin, Walker flung down the gauntlet to public employee unions and they accepted the challenge only to go down to a total defeat. Their power will never be the same. Already, the National Education Association (NEA) has experienced a 150,000 decline in its 3.2 million memberships this year and expects another 200,000 falloff in the next few months – more than a ten percent drop. As states follow Wisconsin’s example and stop automatically deducting union dues from their employee’s paychecks, the funds available to unions will continue to drop – and with it will go much of their political power.
But even the fall of the power of public employee unions fails to capture the full extent of the impact of the Walker victory.
Its most important impact is on America’s schools. By elbowing teacher unions aside and permitting local school boards to abolish teacher tenure and insist on merit pay and school choice, the Walker reforms open the door to a vast and rapid improvement in educational quality throughout the nation. No other education reforms have worked. Now we have no choice but to insist on competition at every level of our educational establishment to improve the product. Teachers must compete for jobs and higher pay even as their schools compete for students. It is the only way we have left that can raise student performance.
The sun is shining and Walker won!
The Meaning Of Scott Walker’s Win at DickMorris.com
Great Scotts! Just as Scott Brown’s 2010 victory in Massachusetts foretold the Republican rout later that year, so Scott Walker’s win is but a foretaste of the November election’s likely result. Polls come and go. But when a Republican governor, in a Democratic state that Obama carried by 14 points in 2008, wins by seven points (Walker 53% – Barrett 46%), it shows how overwhelming our victory later this year will be. Add to these facts the high turnout in Wisconsin (over 60 percent, compared with less than 50% in 2010) and the handwriting is clearly on the wall for Obama.
But the real meaning of the Walker victory goes far beyond its obvious role as a predictor of the fall elections. It marks the same kind of catalyst for a downward decline in state and local public employee unions that the air traffic controllers’ strike in the 80s signaled for federal and private sector unions in general. It is the beginning of the end of their reign of power – or terror – over our states and localities.
While only 7% of the private sector labor force is unionized, 41% of state and local government employees are. A majority of union members are now public employees. After foreign competition has decimated private sector unions, the labor movement has found new power in using it leverage over complicit legislators to prey on helpless taxpayers.
But, in Wisconsin, Walker flung down the gauntlet to public employee unions and they accepted the challenge only to go down to a total defeat. Their power will never be the same. Already, the National Education Association (NEA) has experienced a 150,000 decline in its 3.2 million memberships this year and expects another 200,000 falloff in the next few months – more than a ten percent drop. As states follow Wisconsin’s example and stop automatically deducting union dues from their employee’s paychecks, the funds available to unions will continue to drop – and with it will go much of their political power.
But even the fall of the power of public employee unions fails to capture the full extent of the impact of the Walker victory.
Its most important impact is on America’s schools. By elbowing teacher unions aside and permitting local school boards to abolish teacher tenure and insist on merit pay and school choice, the Walker reforms open the door to a vast and rapid improvement in educational quality throughout the nation. No other education reforms have worked. Now we have no choice but to insist on competition at every level of our educational establishment to improve the product. Teachers must compete for jobs and higher pay even as their schools compete for students. It is the only way we have left that can raise student performance.
The sun is shining and Walker won!
The Meaning Of Scott Walker’s Win at DickMorris.com
jagbender
Registered
jagbender
Registered
jagbender
Registered
jagbender
Registered
jagbender
Registered
