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What exactly is overtraining?

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Sorry, Ill get off my soapbox now :)

Oh yea, overtraining is trying to please your wife on valentines day after forgetting her birthday a week earlier.

That simple.
 
Originally posted by camarosuper6
Sorry, Ill get off my soapbox now :)

Oh yea, overtraining is trying to please your wife on valentines day after forgetting her birthday a week earlier.

That simple.

Yeah, if the forgetting of your wife's birthday didn't result in an injury...
 
Originally posted by gopro

Your programs dont impress me, nor do i care to follow them or have others follow them. I dont go with the hype of things, especially things that have no merit.

Funny how you say 100% effort..Im applying 100% effort with my fingers to type this.. but yet i dont notice any great amounts of hypertrophy!

Individuals cant allways apply 100% effort into what they do, do to several stressors. Its called Cybernetic Periodization.. just thought id 'enlighten' you on that btw.

PS... If you wanna be a little cock about it, i'll be one right back.. and im sure you wont want what i have to say to you. It has a WHOLE lot to do with Elite and WBB and your past status on those boards!!!!


Kc
 
I think the key here is rest (mean that have a FULL friday night rest) and good nutrition! Besides, we have to know our body's! If you feel that you can push up, do it! But if don't, don't insist.

I'm giving now 48 hrs for each group to rest! for me is very enough! Only legs, sometimes need a little bit more...
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
Your programs dont impress me, nor do i care to follow them or have others follow them. I dont go with the hype of things, especially things that have no merit.

Funny how you say 100% effort..Im applying 100% effort with my fingers to type this.. but yet i dont notice any great amounts of hypertrophy!

Individuals cant allways apply 100% effort into what they do, do to several stressors. Its called Cybernetic Periodization.. just thought id 'enlighten' you on that btw.

PS... If you wanna be a little cock about it, i'll be one right back.. and im sure you wont want what i have to say to you. It has a WHOLE lot to do with Elite and WBB and your past status on those boards!!!!


Kc

Despite your differences in opinion with GoPro, there is no need to bash his program. Since joining these boards, I have seen nothing but positive response to his program. The only "hype" behind his program is the excellent results of longtime bodybuilders. I have a feeling the only reason he was "being a cock" (Although it's subjective) is because you were talking down on his program. He is probably very proud of it, and you attacked his pride. He has every right to be proud of it.

Don't take this post the wrong way. I don't necessarily doubt your program. I will save my judgement until after people try it out. I may even try it out if I were to hit another plateau. Good luck with it, and I hope it's as ground breaking as you claim it to be. It can only benefit the bodybuilding world. Just don't go bashing other people's hard work, especially when it is successful.
 
Alright, here's a question for you guys:

I've been maintaining my bodyweight of about 170lbs for something like six months now. During that time, I managed to make small strength gains while eating essentially the same thing and staying the same weight. I like the way I look, so my goal is just to maintain, like I said before.

Now, in the past two weeks or so, I've noticed myself putting on a little bit of bodyfat while keeping my calories the same as they've been, as well as macronutrients. My training intensity has also been high. Is this a sign of overtraining? Maybe I should eat a little over maintenance for a week as far as calories are concerned? Maybe I should take a week off?:shrug:
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
Your programs dont impress me, nor do i care to follow them or have others follow them. I dont go with the hype of things, especially things that have no merit.

Funny how you say 100% effort..Im applying 100% effort with my fingers to type this.. but yet i dont notice any great amounts of hypertrophy!

Individuals cant allways apply 100% effort into what they do, do to several stressors. Its called Cybernetic Periodization.. just thought id 'enlighten' you on that btw.

PS... If you wanna be a little cock about it, i'll be one right back.. and im sure you wont want what i have to say to you. It has a WHOLE lot to do with Elite and WBB and your past status on those boards!!!!


Kc

There is a difference between knowing what you are talking about and being an arrogant know it all. Just thought I'd 'enlighten' you on that btw.

GoPro's program works. Many of us here can attest to that including myself. When your program is ready, publish it and I'm sure many of us will try it out - until then, I'd suggest canning the attitude until you have REAL LIFE results to back you up, not just studies done on control groups or the latest quote from a 'world renowned' strength coach.
 
Originally posted by ponyboy
There is a difference between knowing what you are talking about and being an arrogant know it all. Just thought I'd 'enlighten' you on that btw.

GoPro's program works. Many of us here can attest to that including myself. When your program is ready, publish it and I'm sure many of us will try it out - until then, I'd suggest canning the attitude until you have REAL LIFE results to back you up, not just studies done on control groups or the latest quote from a 'world renowned' strength coach.

I guess being 260 and attempting a 500bp and 700lb dl in the near future (within 8 months) oviously means i have no 'real life results' to back up what i've said.

GoPro's workouts work im sure for some individuals, but how do you know your optimally stimulating the system for adaption to the training stress placed on it?

You can easily maniuplate his workouts to be more effective, such as increasing the volume, frequency, density (fatigue), volume of loading (intensity over time) all at once.

This can be done very easily if one knows how to periodize their training effectivly. Such as 2wk regular loading, 2 overloading wks, 2 deloading wks, repeat. This is the approach im following at the moment for strength and could have value to bodybuilding but, i think the whole cycles should be regards to 8 wks. By training during the overload period you are causing the body to overreach (check out work from Fry et al). At this state you are entering in a mild state of overtraining. During this time one should back off of trainign which is reffered as deloading. During the deloading phase the body goes into a state of repare or adaption. By over reaching you are taping into the higher energy levels of the system and maximally stressing it to its near max.

Here is an example of my strength program:

Week 1-2 (regular loading)
-Mean intensity 80%
-volume 130-155 (lifts at 80%-90%)
- 3 Training sessions

Wk 1-2

Workout 1
Bench Press 3x5 80% (raw)
Rack Press 5x3 90%
Shirted bench 4x4 80% (shirt max)

Workout 2
Squat 3x5 80%
box squats 3x5 80%
Power Snatch 3x5 80%

Workout 3
Deadlift 3x5 80%
Below knee 5x3 90%
GM 3x5 90%


Week 3-4 (loading)
- Mean intensity 90%+
- Volume 160-200 (lifts at 90%+)
- 4 Training sessions


Workout 1
Bench Press 3x2 90%
Rack Press 3x3 95% 3x3 115%
Shirted bench 3x2 80% 2x1 95% 1x1 100% 1x1 102.5% (shirt max)

Workout 2
Squat 3x2 80% 2x1 95% 1x1 100% 1x1 102.5%
box squats 5x3 90%
Power Snatch 3x3 90%

Workout 3
Deadlift 3x3 85% 3x2 90% 1x1 100%
Below knee 5x3 110%
GM 4x4 95%


Workout 4
Push Press 3x3 90%
Snatch Grip High Pull 3x3 90%
Glut Ham Raise 4x!

Weeks 5-6 (deloading)
Mean Intensity 30-50%
Volume 50-70 lifts (30-50%)
Frequency 2 training sessions



Workout 1.
Box sq 8x3 40%
Power Snatch 3x5 50%

Workout 2
Bench 8x3 40%
Close grip 3x5 40%
Hang clean 3x5 40%

Like i said pay key attention to the volume,loading, and frequency. I dont care to much about frequency during this program in training for strength.

I'll continue my post shortly.


Kc
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
Your programs dont impress me, nor do i care to follow them or have others follow them. I dont go with the hype of things, especially things that have no merit.

Funny how you say 100% effort..Im applying 100% effort with my fingers to type this.. but yet i dont notice any great amounts of hypertrophy!

Individuals cant allways apply 100% effort into what they do, do to several stressors. Its called Cybernetic Periodization.. just thought id 'enlighten' you on that btw.

PS... If you wanna be a little cock about it, i'll be one right back.. and im sure you wont want what i have to say to you. It has a WHOLE lot to do with Elite and WBB and your past status on those boards!!!!


Kc

Bring up anything you want big guy...nothing bad happened with me at Elite, and WBB is a big joke to me. I still get emails from guys from WBB asking me for my help...many are on my program. If you want to bring up "steroid" talk over at Elite I can give you links to many more sites that I talk about them...all of it has already been explained.

Once again...don't come to this site and try to promote your "program" as elite or superior to anyones. If you want to come here and write out your ideas, do so without atacking anyone's program, whether it be mine, Mentzers, or AST's. When I put my program out there I just wrote it out and told people that this is what I used to add my last 30 lbs of muscle...but I DID NOT say it was the "best program in the world!" People just started using it and the feedback has been incredible. An article has already appeared about it in Musclemag and soon more in Ironman. I am thankful that it is proving itself so successful and that it is becoming so popular...but still, I will not call it THE BEST like you want to infer your program is.

Don't call me a "cock!" Pull your own out of your mouth and act like a gentlemen or you will find yourself banned from THIS site!

And by the way...I did the 500 lb bench many years ago without EVER focusing on strength and have already been over 270. So, don't throw out the numbers buddy. You already critcized ME for doing that, so practice what you preach big guy!
 
FortifiedIron is obviously very insecure, and apparently an unhappy person, otherwise he would not insult everyone and brag about how great he and his program are.

The difference between FortifiedIron and people like gopro and myself, is you post on boards to try and argue and prove people wrong, helping people is not your true agenda...your motive is to simply feed your ego and bring others down to your level.
 
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Originally posted by Prince
FortifiedIron is obviously very insecure, and apparently an unhappy person, otherwise he would not insult everyone and brag about how great he and his program are.

The difference between FortifiedIron and people like gopro and myself, is you post on boards to try and argue and prove people wrong, helping people is not your true agenda...your motive is to simply feed your ego and bring others down to your level.

Well said Prince...just watch as his responses get more and more "low level," as we go. Personal attacks will become the main adgenda.
 
Not to get in the middle of this at all, but Kyle (FortifiedIron) definitely knows his stuff. You can read up on his articles and the guy is definitely knowledgeable. I just think he's a bit frustrated that is all. Please do not ban him, or anything of the sort, I think he's a valuable addition to IM.

I completely agree that calling you (gopro) a c*ck was out of line, and uncalled for. Name calling on a message board is useless, and immature.

I also want to add that gopro definitely knows his sh*t, and I have read testimonial after testimonial about the P-RR-S routine talking about how excellent the results were.

So again, I am not trying to get in the middle of it, I just see this as more immature and not a mature debate, like it should be between 2 intelligent members who definitely have a lot to offer.
 
Why do people think that there is only one workout that works and it works for everybody???

Variety is the spice of life. Some people like Gopros some people like HIT some people like FortifiedIrons.

As we all know different workouts work better for one person but not another.

And some people just flat out don't want to do your particular workout


Get the f**k over it.

Why do post on training beliefs almost always end up in a flame war?

Just post your damn workout. If someone wants to follow it fine if they don't and choose to follow someone elses then that's fine too.

my 2cents
 
I could really give a rats ass what you guys say about me or think you know about me or wha tyou think im trying to do. My goal is to help find a better way and better individuals training.

If you would please GoPro, get on topic and reffer to my above post.


Kc
 
and btw, GoPro.. you might wanna go back and read where i've stated "DFHT and HST are great programs" I do however feel they are far superior to what Max-ot, your programs are, and HIT (in all forms)


Kc
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
I could really give a rats ass what you guys say about me or think you know about me or wha tyou think im trying to do. My goal is to help find a better way and better individuals training.

If you would please GoPro, get on topic and reffer to my above post.


Kc

If this is true and you are genuine in wanting to help people I highly recommend that you find a better way of conveying your thoughts and ideas, or you will most certainly fail in your endeavors. Communication is key, 93% of communicating is not what you say, but how you say it.
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
and btw, GoPro.. you might wanna go back and read where i've stated "DFHT and HST are great programs" I do however feel they are far superior to what Max-ot, your programs are, and HIT (in all forms)


Kc
Dude....his workouts work for people and your workouts work for people. People like his and people like yours.

Just leave it at that.
 
Which is exactly right. Maybe you should go back and edit the post where GoPro said my post where in fact "Bullshit" and maybe you should possibly tell him that he needs to get back on track, instread of resorting to name calling.

Josh Henkin once told me "The person who starts the personal attacks on one another is the person who is the most insecure about their logic and ways of thinking"


Kc
 
Originally posted by Fade
Dude....his workouts work for people and your workouts work for people. People like his and people like yours.

Just leave it at that.

If you look closely, real closely you will see that i posed they probably do, but i do not feel they are the optimal way to stimulate adaption.

Maybe you didnt read that part?


Kc
 
What's the best? The Mystery of Sets and Reps for Training
By FortifiedIron


We are all Different:
Yup its true! We are not the same. Everybody on this earth is different and we all respond to different methods of training for sets and reps. Some people gain hypertrophy from 4x6 methods and others gain from 3x8-12 methods. Neither of these are correct and neither are incorrect. The two individuals respond to each training regimen differently.

Final thought:
Next time you structure your workout remember what I shown you above. Don???t try and be like anybody. Your you not Ronnie Coleman or the great me ( I know ) Find what works for you and helps you achieve your goals. Good luck in the future.
 
Originally posted by Prince
What's the best? The Mystery of Sets and Reps for Training
By FortifiedIron


We are all Different:
Yup its true! We are not the same. Everybody on this earth is different and we all respond to different methods of training for sets and reps. Some people gain hypertrophy from 4x6 methods and others gain from 3x8-12 methods. Neither of these are correct and neither are incorrect. The two individuals respond to each training regimen differently.

Final thought:
Next time you structure your workout remember what I shown you above. Don???t try and be like anybody. Your you not Ronnie Coleman or the great me ( I know ) Find what works for you and helps you achieve your goals. Good luck in the future.

A very poor wrote article IMO, i'll even critiz myself.

And again, if you understood the point of my post above.. there is no set program.. there is not set of exercises or sets. Its a group of principles that can be followed.

Kc
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
but i do not feel they are the optimal way to stimulate adaption.


Kc

Yeah not for you. You found what works for you.

But maybe it works for other people...maybe it pushes them as for as they can go physically and as far as their recuperative ability can go.


I don't use his workout and I don't use yours...why...because the one I created for myself works for me. I've been doing this long enough to know too.
 
Originally posted by Prince
The best part of your article was this: "Find what works for you and helps you achieve your goals."

Wow your exactly right, as If i didnt have a clue about it!


Kc:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by gopro
You see, I just found this and already had a good laugh!! Here comes someone...whoever you are...that is going to "revolutionize" the way we train, and show why MY and several other very well known programs, are simply not optimal. And guess what? He'll have research on his side!! Maybe some nice studies...well worded and all with scientific like mumbo jumbo!

Well buddy, I could care less. You want to know what makes a program successful and what type of "study" really has meaning? That would be when tons and tons of people make the best gains of their life on a program...when they cannot believe how their body is changing for the better everyday...when you have been training for 14 years, hit a plateau, then go on a program and gain another 25-30 lbs of muscle...THAT IS SUCCESS and solid proof that the program works!

Go ahead and "show us the way." Just try and not to be so arrogant as to think that your way is the very best way..b/c its not. There are extremely effective ways to train and ways that suck. There is no "best." P/RR/S has proven itself to be incredibly effective for countless #s of people and it is growing by leaps and bounds...but Max -OT, HIT, and several others are also on top of the heap.

Man, I really love this bullsh%t.

well said...next time I won't be so polite
 
Originally posted by Fade
Yeah not for you. You found what works for you.

But maybe it works for other people...maybe it pushes them as for as they can go physically and as far as their recuperative ability can go.


I don't use his workout and I don't use yours...why...because the one I created for myself works for me. I've been doing this long enough to know too.

Again, like i said. The model of periodization that i posted (very similar to Yuri Verkhoskansky's conjugated model) has been studied by thousands of scientist and coaches around the world. If it has been used to train WR holding athletes in Weightlifting, track and field and every other event in the olympics then im pretty sure the majority of the individuals who follow the principles will more then likely beable to increase adaption.


Kc
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
Again, like i said. The model of periodization that i posted (very similar to Yuri Verkhoskansky's conjugated model) has been studied by thousands of scientist and coaches around the world. If it has been used to train WR holding athletes in Weightlifting, track and field and every other event in the olympics then im pretty sure the majority of the individuals who follow the principles will more then likely beable to increase adaption.


Kc
I never said anything about the model you posted.

Yes it has been used by WR hold athletes but joe shmoe might not be looking for that.
 
Originally posted by FortifiedIron
I guess being 260 and attempting a 500bp and 700lb dl in the near future (within 8 months) oviously means i have no 'real life results' to back up what i've said.

GoPro's workouts work im sure for some individuals, but how do you know your optimally stimulating the system for adaption to the training stress placed on it?

You can easily maniuplate his workouts to be more effective, such as increasing the volume, frequency, density (fatigue), volume of loading (intensity over time) all at once.

This can be done very easily if one knows how to periodize their training effectivly. Such as 2wk regular loading, 2 overloading wks, 2 deloading wks, repeat. This is the approach im following at the moment for strength and could have value to bodybuilding but, i think the whole cycles should be regards to 8 wks. By training during the overload period you are causing the body to overreach (check out work from Fry et al). At this state you are entering in a mild state of overtraining. During this time one should back off of trainign which is reffered as deloading. During the deloading phase the body goes into a state of repare or adaption. By over reaching you are taping into the higher energy levels of the system and maximally stressing it to its near max.

Here is an example of my strength program:

Week 1-2 (regular loading)
-Mean intensity 80%
-volume 130-155 (lifts at 80%-90%)
- 3 Training sessions

Wk 1-2

Workout 1
Bench Press 3x5 80% (raw)
Rack Press 5x3 90%
Shirted bench 4x4 80% (shirt max)

Workout 2
Squat 3x5 80%
box squats 3x5 80%
Power Snatch 3x5 80%

Workout 3
Deadlift 3x5 80%
Below knee 5x3 90%
GM 3x5 90%


Week 3-4 (loading)
- Mean intensity 90%+
- Volume 160-200 (lifts at 90%+)
- 4 Training sessions


Workout 1
Bench Press 3x2 90%
Rack Press 3x3 95% 3x3 115%
Shirted bench 3x2 80% 2x1 95% 1x1 100% 1x1 102.5% (shirt max)

Workout 2
Squat 3x2 80% 2x1 95% 1x1 100% 1x1 102.5%
box squats 5x3 90%
Power Snatch 3x3 90%

Workout 3
Deadlift 3x3 85% 3x2 90% 1x1 100%
Below knee 5x3 110%
GM 4x4 95%


Workout 4
Push Press 3x3 90%
Snatch Grip High Pull 3x3 90%
Glut Ham Raise 4x!

Weeks 5-6 (deloading)
Mean Intensity 30-50%
Volume 50-70 lifts (30-50%)
Frequency 2 training sessions



Workout 1.
Box sq 8x3 40%
Power Snatch 3x5 50%

Workout 2
Bench 8x3 40%
Close grip 3x5 40%
Hang clean 3x5 40%

Like i said pay key attention to the volume,loading, and frequency. I dont care to much about frequency during this program in training for strength.

I'll continue my post shortly.


Kc

This is a powerlifting routine. How is the world does this apply to everyday people like myself and countless others? You do realize that for the average person lifting like this is dangerous and nonfunctional - doing olympic lifting is fine for a limited few who have been training for a long time, but I could never apply this routine to any clients at my gym. Therefore to me this routine is useless. I wouldn't even try it myself.

How would you adjust this program to the average person who had only been lifting for 1 year or less?
 
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