What if christians are wrong

[gibert]

I grew up in a christian household. My denomination was Church of God in Christ, the largest african-american pentecostal denomination in the world. Apart of this doctrine was the teaching that all non-believers in christianity are doomed to eternal torment in hell. Now, every christian i've ever ran across seem to have no problem with this and seem to believe that the person in question "chooses" to go to hell. I don't want to go off on a tangent, so I won't get into why I think that's nonsense. But my question is, what if christians are wrong, compared to say muslims.


In Islam, they believe christians are wrong and hell bound. So suppose the christian in question dies and in the afterlife, finds out he was wrong all along and that Islam was the correct path. He's standing in front of Allah who is ready to throw him into hell's fiery pits. The christian explains that he didn't know Allah was the true God and it isn't fair that Allah should send them to hell, especially after he allowed Satan (they have satan in Islam) to deceive them into thinking christianity was the right path. Allah says he revealed himself in his infallible, holy word, the quran! The christian responds that it's no way he could've known the quran was the infallible word of God.


The christian asks why didn't Allah show himself and prove to people he is the real God, and Islam is his true religion. Allah says he must remain hidden, otherwise it'd violate people's free will. Allah mentions the time 30 years ago when the christian was standing at the bus stop and a muslim came up to him and tried to convince him to convert to islam and invite him to the mosque, so the claim could be made that he "heard the truth". The christian explains that he grew up in a christian household and christianity was all he knew to be correct and that he was thoroughly convinced that the muslim was wrong.


Allah says it doesn't matter, and that he should've just had blind faith and believed. Even though the christian had no reason at all to change his beliefs on the spot or think islam was the real religion. Allah tells the christian "im not sending you to hell you sent yourself off to hell you go!" and throws him into the fiery pits.


The question must be asked, would any christian think Allah would be perfectly just for casting them into hell for having the wrong belief, even when Allah made no effort to make himself known that he was the true God, except thru a book a certain group of people claim to be his word?


If they would not believe Allah to be just for doing this to them, then why do they believe the Christian God is correct for doing this to non-christians, based on these exact same standards?

 

[Wanna_B_Bigger]

Agreed. And Christians are fools if they believe they are safe just because they call themselves Christians. I know shitty Christians and I know Atheist who are wonderful people. Would a just supreme being really send a good person to hell because they didn't call them self a Christian. If so, I do not respect that being and I would refuse to worship that being. I am an atheist until I see proof of God. How is anyone supposed to know who is right and who is a con artist. And what about someone that grows up in some isolated tribe in the middle of nowhere and never even hears about God? Is it right that they should go to hell because God decided to put them in a Godless place? Religeon is a crock of shit. I am not saying that people should not be good or that they should live without honor, just that religion is crap.

 

[LAM]

lol @ magical thinking...

 

[FTW34]

Too bad Islam didnt become a religion till 100s of years.... after Jesus.

How come the Koran talks about Jesus, but the Bible doesnt mention Allah? lol The Koran only validates Christianity. meanwhile nothing in the christian bible sais a word about Allah or Islam. Fact of the matter is, The Koran was written much later than the Bible. And actually takes and borrows things from the bible historically and changes them as well. Kind of funny when you think about it.

Read about the prophet "Muhammad" and the kind of person he is. From a historical stand point, not a religious one. He definitely did not conduct himself as a holy Prophet as the koran claims

 

[maniclion]

It's all grape vine stuff past down from paranoia to witch doctors to Zoroastrianism, to Judaism, to Christianity to Islam to Mormonism to Scientology and its all bastardizations of supertitions based on non-empirical data....

 

[Wanna_B_Bigger]

Besides the bible stole half of their stories from Babylonian and Sumerian myths and the whole horned/goat legged devil schtick was invented later to demonize the pagans. As a said before, religion is crap.

 

[FTW34]

@ wanna be bigger, The bible has been proven correct historically countless times through Archeology

 

[colochine]

@ wanna be bigger, The bible has been proven correct historically countless times through Archeology

Ahhh another one of these threads.

Religion: The greatest story ever told.

 

[Calves of Steel]

They do mention in a book of the Quran that if you were raised a different religion you are forgiven for it, also Allah is the same entity as the father (they just don't believe in the son or the holy spirit), just the saudi name for him and some interpretations of his beliefs are different. A lot of Islam was written to more closely resemble the old testament, they thought the new testament was twisting the word to make it more appealing or something like that. Basically, people thought God was strict and harsh, then was like hey disciples tell people hes not so harsh or strict (and the disciples told their students, who then wrote the books), then other people were like na we think he was strict and harsh. All of those books were written by people by the way. Most of the ideas are similar, and a lot of the conflict is really territorial, does jesus represent part of the holy trinity or is he just a prophet, are the muslim prophets really relevant at all, etc. These books were not written with the intention of people around the world discussing them on the internet, but they were cleverly written, as a lot of people still believe the stories and stuff, and most people take things out of context.

 

[Wanna_B_Bigger]

@ wanna be bigger, The bible has been proven correct historically countless times through Archeology

So if I take some current events and then throw in some magic and put it in a PDF people can take it as gospel in a couple of thousand years? Sorry if you are religious and don't like what I am saying, my girlfriend shares your frustration. I got beat with big board too many times in Christian school by nut jobs who where telling me an hour before in class about turning the other cheek (didn't know at the time they meant turn the other ass cheek). Crackpots always wanted me to pray with them before they beat me (today I believe that is assault w/a weapon).

 

[LAM]

@ wanna be bigger, The bible has been proven correct historically countless times through Archeology

proving that various persons and places existed does not equate to proofing that god or any other higher power exists. it only corroborates what is written about certain people and places, it does not prove that certain events occurred.

I can write a story right now about my girlfriend and me and our trip to Toronto last week. records now or later prove that we did indeed travel there during a certain time frame along with interaction with our friends that we had and the records from there stay at the hotel, car rental, etc.. but in now way could everything that we said or did be either proved or disproved. now apply that whole scenario to events that supposedly occurred thousands of years ago before there was written word.

 

[gibert]

proving that various persons and places existed does not equate to proofing that god or any other higher power exists. it only corroborates what is written about certain people and places, it does not prove that certain events occurred.

New York City exists, spiders exist, and people named Peter exists therefore Spider-Man exists! In fact, i'm sure that there are spiders and people named Peter that exist in New York City right now, so Spider-Man must exist!!!

 

[troubador]

If they would not believe Allah to be just for doing this to them, then why do they believe the Christian God is correct for doing this to non-christians, based on these exact same standards?

Your argument is like saying 'Why does Joe think it's ok to fuck his girlfriend Sara? What if she wasn't his girlfriend but was really someone else's girlfriend, if he thinks it's wrong to fuck other people's girlfriends then why does he think it's ok for him to fuck Sara? To the Christians, God is their girlfriend and not the Muslims' girlfriend.

Explanation...
This line of logic is very similar to the Argument from Ignorance fallacy except here you're rebutting an argument based on an assumed premise then stating if the assumed premise is false some subsequent line of reasoning must be invalid. The Christian line of reasoning here is valid. They assume their God is real and the Muslim God isn't; this is what you could call a priori knowledge, it's independent from the justification of why they believe the Christian God is correct for doing that. Their justification may have something to do with God's nature, or some path to redemption thing, it doesn't matter, my point is their belief in a Christian God is 'a given' to them so subsequent lines of reasoning based on that assumption are valid but not necessarily sound because the premise maybe false. So you can say the Christians are operating on a false premise but that is a different argument than saying their subsequent reasoning is faulty.

 

[Wanna_B_Bigger]

It's time for

 

[parsifal09]

maybe theres a god,maybe not

the only form of christiunity that makes sense to me is calvinism btw

and isla,m is good too, they all have some good in them

 

[withoutrulers]

It's time for

Agreed

 

[colochine]

maybe theres a god,maybe not

the only form of christiunity that makes sense to me is calvinism btw

and isla,m is good too, they all have some good in them

No good can come from anyone who doesn't eat bacon.

 

[Watson]

 

[theCaptn']

what do you mean, "what if Christians are wrong" Bwahahahaha!

 

[crazyotter]

IF?! Lol

 

[Luxx]

Agreed. And Christians are fools if they believe they are safe just because they call themselves Christians. I know shitty Christians and I know Atheist who are wonderful people. Would a just supreme being really send a good person to hell because they didn't call them self a Christian. If so, I do not respect that being and I would refuse to worship that being. I am an atheist until I see proof of God. How is anyone supposed to know who is right and who is a con artist. And what about someone that grows up in some isolated tribe in the middle of nowhere and never even hears about God? Is it right that they should go to hell because God decided to put them in a Godless place? Religeon is a crock of shit. I am not saying that people should not be good or that they should live without honor, just that religion is crap.

Well said!!!!!

 

[LAM]

what do you mean, "what if Christians are wrong" Bwahahahaha!

that books sounds exactly like what it is total BS...was at a funeral service on Saturday and the preacher actually didn't annoy me for once.

 

[gibert]

Your argument is like saying 'Why does Joe think it's ok to fuck his girlfriend Sara? What if she wasn't his girlfriend but was really someone else's girlfriend, if he thinks it's wrong to fuck other people's girlfriends then why does he think it's ok for him to fuck Sara? To the Christians, God is their girlfriend and not the Muslims' girlfriend.

Explanation...
This line of logic is very similar to the Argument from Ignorance fallacy except here you're rebutting an argument based on an assumed premise then stating if the assumed premise is false some subsequent line of reasoning must be invalid. The Christian line of reasoning here is valid. They assume their God is real and the Muslim God isn't; this is what you could call a priori knowledge, it's independent from the justification of why they believe the Christian God is correct for doing that. Their justification may have something to do with God's nature, or some path to redemption thing, it doesn't matter, my point is their belief in a Christian God is 'a given' to them so subsequent lines of reasoning based on that assumption are valid but not necessarily sound because the premise maybe false. So you can say the Christians are operating on a false premise but that is a different argument than saying their subsequent reasoning is faulty.

Of course they believe their God is the real God, but the point is that many christians seem to find no problem with the damnation of others for an eternity. In fact, many believe that it is the person's fault. The point of the post was to point out the hypocrisy of that notion, if the specific christian in question head was on the chopping block, would they believe what is justified for someone else is justified for them? The only thing i'm doing here is taking things and putting them in reverse.

 

[troubador]

Of course they believe their God is the real God, but the point is that many christians seem to find no problem with the damnation of others for an eternity. In fact, many believe that it is the person's fault. The point of the post was to point out the hypocrisy of that notion, if the specific christian in question head was on the chopping block, would they believe what is justified for someone else is justified for them? The only thing i'm doing here is taking things and putting them in reverse.

Yes, that's very simple and I addressed the problem with your argument. If their God is the real God it's not hypocrisy and false realities are irrelevant. Also, someone being a hypocrite doesn't make their argument wrong, this is called tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy) however a make believe(false) role reversal does not make someone a hypocrite like I pointed out in my Joe and Sara analogy.

If the Christians are wrong then yes it's wrong damning others for eternity, if they're right then it's not wrong. You cannot say 'you don't know you're right, so you're wrong' this is the very definition of the argument from ignorance fallacy. If you want to argue Christians are wrong for damning people you need to prove the premises they are operating on are false rather than say 'what if they're false'.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Oh lawd.

Why do people even discuss religion and "what if it's wrong?"

It's a fairy tale. Go to bed.

 

[TonyMack]

Sorry, didn't read this thread cause ALL religions are wrong, for me.