• Hello, this board in now turned off and no new posting.
    Please REGISTER at Anabolic Steroid Forums, and become a member of our NEW community!
  • Check Out IronMag Labs® KSM-66 Max - Recovery and Anabolic Growth Complex

Who thinks Blojobama care is finished

FUZO

Registered
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
751
Reaction score
125
Points
0
Location
USA
Last edited:
That's great.
Lets just continue with the current status quo private for profit approach to health care.
It works so well as to increasing competition and reducing medical costs to consumers.
NOT

The United States under a private for profit health care delivery system has the highest medical costs of any western nation for consumers for health care.
Tt ranks near the bottom in results.

There is a reason for those high costs.

It's due to private for profit health care providers rigging the health care delivery so called free markets to derive maximum corporates profits and ROI to shareholders.
It is due to the way the system actually works, not for the benefit of consumers but for the benefit of health care providers that are profit driven.

All of that Paul Ryan crap about not allowing insurance competition across state lines and that its government regulations that are driving health care costs up is total crap.
Politicians love sheep that base their opinions on not understanding how things actually function in the health care industry, who the players are and what happens under the covers to drive costs up.

A case in point:

"The basic design of artificial joints has not changed for decades. But increased volume about one million knee and hip replacements are performed in the United States annually and competition have not lowered prices, as would typically happen with products like clothes or cars. There are a bunch of implants that are reasonably similar, said James C. Robinson, a health economist at the University of California, Berkeley. hat should be great for the consumer, but it isnt.

Entire article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/health/for-medical-tourists-simple-math.html?hp

By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL | Published: August 3, 2013

WARSAW, Ind. Michael Shopenns artificial hip was made by a company based in this remote town, a global center of joint manufacturing. But he had to fly to Europe to have it installed.
Mr. Shopenn, 67, an architectural photographer and avid snowboarder, had been in such pain from arthritis that he could not stand long enough to make coffee, let alone work. He had health insurance, but it would not cover a joint replacement because his degenerative disease was related to an old sports injury, thus considered a pre-existing condition.


Desperate to find an affordable solution, he reached out to a sailing buddy with friends at a medical device manufacturer, which arranged to provide his local hospital with an implant at what was described as the list price of $13,000, with no markup. But when the hospitals finance office estimated that the hospital charges would run another $65,000, not including the surgeons fee, he knew he had to think outside the box, and outside the country.


That was a third of my savings at the time, Mr. Shopenn said recently from the living room of his condo in Boulder, Colo. It wasnt happening.

Very leery of going to a developing country like India or Thailand, which both draw so-called medical tourists, he ultimately chose to have his hip replaced in 2007 at a private hospital outside Brussels for $13,660. That price included not only a hip joint, made by Warsaw-based Zimmer Holdings, but also all doctors fees, operating room charges, crutches, medicine, a hospital room for five days, a week in rehab and a round-trip ticket from America.
We have the most expensive health care in the world, but it doesnt necessarily mean its the best, Mr. Shopenn said. Im kind of the poster child for that.


As the United States struggles to rein in its growing $2.7 trillion health care bill, the cost of medical devices like joint implants, pacemakers and artificial urinary valves offers a cautionary tale. Like many medical products or procedures, they cost far more in the United States than in many other developed countries.


Makers of artificial implants the biggest single cost of most joint replacement surgeries have proved particularly adept at commanding inflated prices, according to health economists. Multiple intermediaries then mark up the charges. While Mr. Shopenn was offered an implant in the United States for $13,000, many privately insured patients are billed two to nearly three times that amount.
An artificial hip, however, costs only about $350 to manufacture in the United States, according to Dr. Blair Rhode, an orthopedist and entrepreneur whose company is developing generic implants. In Asia, it costs about $150, though some quality control issues could arise there, he said.


So why are implant list prices so high, and rising by more than 5 percent a year? In the United States, nearly all hip and knee implants sterilized pieces of tooled metal, plastic or ceramics are made by five companies, which some economists describe as a cartel. Manufacturers tweak old models and patent the changes as new products, with ever-bigger price tags.


Generic or foreign-made joint implants have been kept out of the United States by trade policy, patents and an expensive Food and Drug Administration approval process that deters start-ups from entering the market. The companies defend this turf ferociously, said Dr. Peter M. Cram, a physician at the University of Iowa medical school who studies the costs of health care.
Though the five companies make similar models, each cultivates intense brand loyalty through financial ties to surgeons and the use of a different tool kit and operating system for the installation of its products; orthopedists typically stay with the system they learned on. The thousands of hospitals and clinics that purchase implants try to bargain for deep discounts from manufacturers, but they have limited leverage since each buys a relatively small quantity from any one company.


In addition, device makers typically require doctors groups and hospitals to sign nondisclosure agreements about prices, which means institutions do not know what their competitors are paying. This secrecy erodes bargaining power and has allowed a small industry of profit-taking middlemen to flourish: joint implant purchasing consultants, implant billing companies, joint brokers. There are as many as 13 layers of vendors between the physician and the patient for a hip replacement, according to Kate Willhite, a former executive director of the Manitowoc Surgery Center in Wisconsin.
Hospitals and orthopedic clinics typically pay $4,500 to $7,500 for an artificial hip, according to MD Buyline and Orthopedic Network News, which track device pricing. But those numbers balloon with the cost of installation equipment and all the intermediaries fees, including an often hefty hospital markup.


That is why the hip implant for Joe Catugno, a patient at the Hospital for Joint Diseases in New York, accounted for nearly $37,000 of his approximately $100,000 hospital bill; Cigna, his insurer, paid close to $70,000 of the charges. At Mills-Peninsula Health Services in San Mateo, Calif., Susan Foley?s artificial knee, which costs about the same as a hip joint, was billed at $26,000 in a total hospital tally of $112,317. The components of Sonja Nelson?s hip at Sacred Heart Hospital in Pensacola, Fla., accounted for $30,581 of her $50,935 hospital bill. Insurers negotiate discounts on those charges, and patients have limited responsibility for the differences.

The basic design of artificial joints has not changed for decades. But increased volume about one million knee and hip replacements are performed in the United States annually and competition have not lowered prices, as would typically happen with products like clothes or cars. There are a bunch of implants that are reasonably similar,? said James C. Robinson, a health economist at the University of California, Berkeley. That should be great for the consumer, but it isnt.
 
Last edited:
I don't even want to figure out Obamacare for fear of my head exploding.
atomic.gif
 
I cannot say whether I am for or against the ACA (Obamacare).

It's too complicated and too difficult for me to get unbiased info.

OP,

The ACA is the law now. I don't think repealing it would be possible, and assume a number of votes would be needed.

I will judge Obamacare on if it helps me, and does not mess up care and employment for many Americans.

Therefore, I think it will take a couple of years (perhaps less) to figure out.

In my state of WA, Obamacare starts in earnest on Jan 1, 2014.

There are charts and articles on it in my local paper.

My question is, how much will my monthly premiums be as a 43 year old non-smoker with no medical history of problems?

Another thing I read, is that people who cannot affort to buy these insurance plans WILL BE SUBSIDIZED by the govt.

Now, how many people will that be? How much will that cost?

At least Obama did something. The GOP plan for the debacle of American health care is to "repeal Obamacare."

The GOP has and had never had a plan.

Yet only 9 GOP Congressman voted against Medicare D in 2003.

If you're a senior you get care and meds. If your company does not provide insurance and you are not 65, you are screwed.
 
I don't get any of this. I work in the union as a union carpenter I make good money and great benefits don't know how or if obamacare will effect me. I guess well see but I don't deal w any if that the union does it for me so who knows
 
If this were a single payer program it wouldn't be this confusing.

But in that video @ 1:55 Alex Jones makes a very revealing and important statement, and @ 2:05, all questions should be answered.
 
I don't get any of this. I work in the union as a union carpenter I make good money and great benefits don't know how or if obamacare will effect me. I guess well see but I don't deal w any if that the union does it for me so who knows
Ditto, we are lucky in that regard.
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios'

Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios' - Forbes
Oh my...

The union leaders are concerned that Obamacare?s employer mandate incentivizes smaller companies to shift their workers to part-time status, because employers are not required to provide health coverage to part-time workers. ?We have a problem,? they write, and ?you need to fix it.?
?The unintended consequences of the ACA are severe,? they continue. ?Perverse incentives are causing nightmare scenarios. First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees? work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers? hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits.?
 
It doesn't hold water my company could never make any of us part time and still produce the work needed to compete jobs
 
At least Obama did something. The GOP plan for the debacle of American health care is to "repeal Obamacare."

The GOP has and had never had a plan.

exactly...since the US was created the ONLY piece of legislation that the GOP has proposed and passed in regards to healthcare was Medicare Part D. every other piece of healthcare legislation was proposed and passed by the democrats via reconciliation.

the GOP solution is always on the supply-side of the equation and we all see how well that's worked out the past 30-40 years, as things are just super fantastic in the US.
 
Obama care has been pushed back until 2015 or something
 
exactly...since the US was created the ONLY piece of legislation that the GOP has proposed and passed in regards to healthcare was Medicare Part D. every other piece of healthcare legislation was proposed and passed by the democrats via reconciliation.

the GOP solution is always on the supply-side of the equation and we all see how well that's worked out the past 30-40 years, as things are just super fantastic in the US.

so the GOP controlled congress for the last 40 years? lmao!!!!
 
so the GOP controlled congress for the last 40 years? lmao!!!!

what does controlling congress have to do with anything? you may want to learn what reconcillation is because when you do you'll realize the LMAO is on YOU!

LMFAO!!!!
 
what does controlling congress have to do with anything? you may want to learn what reconcillation is because when you do you'll realize the LMAO is on YOU!

LMFAO!!!!



wrong. so your saying the GOP used reconciliation to pass all their legislation? lol. keep trying maybe one day you'll get it right.
 
wrong. so your saying the GOP used reconciliation to pass all their legislation? lol. keep trying maybe one day you'll get it right.

where did I say that? wtf is wrong with your reading comprehension I stated nothing even close to that.

dude...your brain sucks
 
where did I say that? wtf is wrong with your reading comprehension I stated nothing even close to that.

dude...your brain sucks


lol the pot calling the kettle black ^^^
 
where did I say that? wtf is wrong with your reading comprehension I stated nothing even close to that.

dude...your brain sucks

and what have the dems done to counter the GOP from destroying the economy over the past 40 years?
 
and what have the dems done to counter the GOP from destroying the economy over the past 40 years?

The GOP destroyed the economy I say bullshit. The democrats destroyed the economy, I say bullshit, also. It was both of them. The ones I blame the most is everyone who turned to the government and asked for something. Or to not stand up and hold the politicians accountable for their behavior. Many cry to throw the bums out, well...except for my representative, he's ok. See the problem? The problem is US. We caused this by letting ourselves fall asleep for 40+ years. It is our fault for letting other dictate how we should live our lives, what expectations we should have and how to educate the kids.
We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo
 
I'm waiting for my premium to go down $2,500 a year like Obama said it would.
 
One Person Attends Obamacare Event


One. That?s how many people showed up for a pro-Obamacare event in Centerville, Virginia. And let?s face it: People didn?t miss the event because they were working. The ambivalence toward the implementation of Obamacare is evidenced throughout the nation, as the President?s left over campaigning apparatus ? Organizing for Action ? held a number of unattended Obamacare events this weekend. The event, reported by Politico, illustrated the growing displeasure with the President?s signature piece of legislation.




:roflmao:
 
There is zero percent chance Obamacare is finished.
 
The issue here is a bill was passed that was not reviewed, let alone read, and is wrought with back room deals that don't solve any problems because yet again insurers, hospitals and big pharma all still are going to see windfall profits. How much of this law has been put on hold or removed already? Is it better than nothing, probably, is it perfect or even decent, hell no. This was a piece of dog shit that was spit shined to look just good enough to get passed only to find out now its true origins as a piece of shit.
 
As for the OP, the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of Obamacare, and even Boehner publicly stated it is the "law of the land." That siad, the GOP this week tried to repeal Obamacare for the 40th time (according to Krugman today in the NYT). It seems the Repubs, who NEVER had a plan, are really grasping at straws.

The GOP could have put an altenative plan, but did nothing.

The positive is that you can keep your coverage if you change jobs and have a pre-existing conditions. You also cannot be cancelled half way through chemo, for example.


I found some links that may be helpful.

Kaider Foundation info your area - Kaiser Family Foundation - Health Policy Research, Analysis, Polling, Facts, Data and Journalism

Cost calculator. For WA state but your state will likely have one - Washington Health Benefit Exchange :: Individuals & Families Cost Estimate Calculator
 
Back
Top