Will carbs matter in this situation?

[Built]

From my early twenties until my late thirties.

The thing that bothers me is how few people have access to the information they need. So many assholes in this industry who want to keep people miserable and in the dark to sell more product. The industry model for gyms, for instance. You join, want to lose weight... they tell you to eat a low fat diet, do a ton of cardio... only it isn't sustainable. THEY KNOW THAT!!! They want you to pay, and QUIT - but keep those monthly payments coming in...

Meanwhile, you feel guilty because you couldn't keep it going, you feel like it's your fault, you were weak...

I'm tired of it.

 

[Arnold]

If your daily calorie maintenance is 2500 calories and you eat 3 doughnuts and a cheeseburger value meal, but you don't exceed 2500 calories, you shouldn't gain, or lose any weight...You should just stay the same.

that is not true, its not just calories in, calories out.

there was a study done recently where the control group received 2 servings of whey protein per day, the non control group did not, everything else remained the same, the outcomes was the control group gained muscle and lost bodyfat, the only variable being the 2 added servings of whey protein.

 

[C6zo6]

From my early twenties until my late thirties.

The thing that bothers me is how few people have access to the information they need. So many assholes in this industry who want to keep people miserable and in the dark to sell more product. The industry model for gyms, for instance. You join, want to lose weight... they tell you to eat a low fat diet, do a ton of cardio... only it isn't sustainable. THEY KNOW THAT!!! They want you to pay, and QUIT - but keep those monthly payments coming in...

Meanwhile, you feel guilty because you couldn't keep it going, you feel like it's your fault, you were weak...

I'm tired of it.

Honestly, this couldn't be more true. Advertisement is full of garbage just out to make somebody rich...People guarantee this and guarantee that. I've never understood why people think they can just run on a treadmill and not diet...I over heard a personal trainer tell a women: "If you start jogging on a treadmill for 30mins a day, you will be burning 500 calories easy." Maybe he forgot to mention she would need to be RUNNING, lol.

I personally believe people hype cardio to burn so much more calories than it actually does. Weight lifting and diet is a more efficient fat loss plan...

(Again, my opinion)

 

[C6zo6]

that is not true, its not just calories in, calories out.

there was a study done recently where the control group received 2 servings of whey protein per day, the non control group did not, everything else remained the same, the outcomes was the control group gained muscle and lost bodyfat, the only variable being the 2 added servings of whey protein.

Huh, how does this have anything to do with what i said? Your study didn't claim that the other people got fatter, so what does this mean?

All your implying is that excess protein results in potential muscle development...We know this...But, we also don't know how much protein the control group was getting in the first place...

 

[danzik17]

that is not true, its not just calories in, calories out.

there was a study done recently where the control group received 2 servings of whey protein per day, the non control group did not, everything else remained the same, the outcomes was the control group gained muscle and lost bodyfat, the only variable being the 2 added servings of whey protein.

True enough as I experienced this firsthand, but there's also something to be said for simplicity. I think the "perfect" diet is just as unsustainable as the cabbage soup diet because it requires TOO much discipline.

Unless you are a competitive bodybuilder and are really worried about optimizing every little variable, the basics will generally be more than enough to allow you to reach your goals.

 

[Built]

that is not true, its not just calories in, calories out.

there was a study done recently where the control group received 2 servings of whey protein per day, the non control group did not, everything else remained the same, the outcomes was the control group gained muscle and lost bodyfat, the only variable being the 2 added servings of whey protein.

How much protein was the control group eating? Because if the control group was getting insufficient protein, and the experimental group got sufficient - or less insufficient, lol - protein, then this would make sense.

If both groups ate the levels of protein most of us do, and the experimental condition added more protein due to whey and THAT showed the effect you report, I'd be far more interested.

 

[C6zo6]

If both groups ate the levels of protein most of us do, and the experimental condition added more protein due to whey and THAT showed the effect you report, I'd be far more interested.

Exactly...Which is what i was trying to get at, but you explained it so much better. lol

 

[nkira]

Built, are you still on metformin? Just Curious.

 

[Arnold]

Huh, how does this have anything to do with what i said? Your study didn't claim that the other people got fatter, so what does this mean?

All your implying is that excess protein results in potential muscle development...We know this...But, we also don't know how much protein the control group was getting in the first place...

they ADDED calories in the form of whey protein and gained muscle, lost bodyfat, no weight training was involved. The other group ate the same additional calories but NOT in the form of whey protein. Get it? It was not the calories, it was where the calories were coming from!

Do you think that if you substituted 500 calories per day in your diet with FAT there would be no change in your BF% because the calories remain the same?

 

[Built]

Built, are you still on metformin? Just Curious.

No. I wasn't quite type II diabetic, I had IR just to clarify. Furthermore, even type II diabetes is always reversible through dietary changes. I eat fewer carbs now than most "normal" people do, although I eat more carb than I did while still obese, and dieting.

they ADDED calories in the form of whey protein and gained muscle, lost bodyfat, no weight training was involved. The other group ate the same additional calories but NOT in the form of whey protein. Get it? It was not the calories, it was where the calories were coming from!

Okay, this just got more interesting. How was intake assessed - were the subjects kept in a metabolic lab, or did they self-report their intake? Because of course protein is satiating - if the whey was a preload, it could easily reduce subsequent intake without noticeable hunger.

If they were in a metabolic lab, or if they were given all of their food prepacked, we'd have a very good idea of how much they actually ate.

 

[Arnold]

Okay, this just got more interesting. How was intake assessed - were the subjects kept in a metabolic lab, or did they self-report their intake? Because of course protein is satiating - if the whey was a preload, it could easily reduce subsequent intake without noticeable hunger.

If they were in a metabolic lab, or if they were given all of their food prepacked, we'd have a very good idea of how much they actually ate.

its very interesting and changes the old thinking about calories in/out, I don't think its been published online yet, let me look into it.

 

[Built]

Thank you - I'd appreciate this.

A reminder to all concerned here - I personally eat AND advocate eating a very high protein diet because this works so well for weight control.

I will continue to do so regardless of the presence or absence of evidence for a "metabolic advantage", because it's more comfortable.

But this study sounds like a very interesting piece of information to keep in my pocket, should it be true - there has never been any evidence of this effect before, and if this turns out to be what it seems, the shock waves through the fitness, medical and health-care communities will be ENORMOUS!

 

[Arnold]

But this study sounds like a very interesting piece of information to keep in my pocket, should it be true - there has never been any evidence of this effect before, and if this turns out to be what it seems, the shock waves through the fitness, medical and health-care communities will be ENORMOUS!

oh it is true, I listened to one of the scientists that was involved in it, there was also a third control group, I don't want to say anymore because I really don't know the specifics of the experiment, I will try and get more info.

 

[Built]

Please. This is truly fascinating - and the posts on Lyle McDonald's, the Eades and other major research-review sites will be just DYNAMITE!

 

[C6zo6]

they ADDED calories in the form of whey protein and gained muscle, lost bodyfat, no weight training was involved. The other group ate the same additional calories but NOT in the form of whey protein. Get it? It was not the calories, it was where the calories were coming from!

Do you think that if you substituted 500 calories per day in your diet with FAT there would be no change in your BF% because the calories remain the same?

Well, this makes sense, but should be obvious...So, the people didn't gain, or lose weight, correct? One just gained muscle and lost fat...(But weight didn't change) If that's what your saying, then it makes sense. Fat is fat, so consuming more of it compared to protein should have a disadvantage, unless you have a 500g protein diet with minimum fat. But, if you have a normal diet and add 500 calories of protein, instead of fat, then of course your going to have better results and just be healthier in general...

The people who were eating the normal 500 calories could have been consuming foods with no nutritional value.

Also, if the weight didn't change in both groups, this would still mean a calorie is a calorie...Just in a different way. Your weight will stay the same, but body composition will change.

 

[Arnold]

Well, this makes sense, but should be obvious...So, the people didn't gain, or lose weight, correct? One just gained muscle and lost fat...(But weight didn't change) If that's what your saying, then it makes sense. Fat is fat, so consuming more of it compared to protein should have a disadvantage, unless you have a 500g protein diet with minimum fat. But, if you have a normal diet and add 500 calories of protein, instead of fat, then of course your going to have better results and just be healthier in general...

The people who were eating the normal 500 calories could have been consuming foods with no nutritional value.

Also, if the weight didn't change in both groups, this would still mean a calorie is a calorie...Just in a different way. Your weight will stay the same, but body composition will change.

your logic is flawed, you should re-read what you just wrote.

 

[C6zo6]

It is, i apologize. Sounds stupid, lol. I'm at work and typing very quickly. (I shouldn't even be on here)

You said the control group lost fat and gained muscle. Did their weight change?

 

[Arnold]

You said the control group lost fat and gained muscle. Did their weight change?

I need to get the specifics of the study before I say anymore.

 

[C6zo6]

Fair enough

 

[nkira]

No. I wasn't quite type II diabetic, I had IR just to clarify. Furthermore, even type II diabetes is always reversible through dietary changes. I eat fewer carbs now than most "normal" people do, although I eat more carb than I did while still obese, and dieting.

What does IR mean?

I have been telling my dad that type 2 diabetics is REVERSIBLE through dietary CHANGES & not MEDICATIONS.....but he simply refuses to listen.

I first read about diet & reversing type 2 diabetics at How to cure type 2 diabetes eventually i ended up purchasing & reading the whole book.

 

[nkira]

Even if the study does prove it,large fitness, medical and health-care communities will suppress the factual information from reaching to mass population that way the monthly payments will coming in...

IMO most of the large fitness, medical and health-care communities are like organized crime gangs connected together for pulling in money no matter who suffers......

But that's just my opinion.

Thank you - I'd appreciate this.

A reminder to all concerned here - I personally eat AND advocate eating a very high protein diet because this works so well for weight control.

I will continue to do so regardless of the presence or absence of evidence for a "metabolic advantage", because it's more comfortable.

But this study sounds like a very interesting piece of information to keep in my pocket, should it be true - there has never been any evidence of this effect before, and if this turns out to be what it seems, the shock waves through the fitness, medical and health-care communities will be ENORMOUS!

 

[Built]

They'll TRY.

Hehehe... but we have teh 1ntarw3b!!!

 

[Arnold]

I just found out the study I am talking about has not been published yet, however it was reported by Dr. Scott Connelly
A. Scott Connelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Built]

Sounds like a pretty smart physician! (Sadly, they aren't all!)