Your Sexuality?

[MaxMirkin]

John.......can you like write less? Seriously bro, your shit is giving me a headache.

 

[Minotaur]

John.......can you like write less? Seriously bro, your shit is giving me a headache.

Go read some of his 'epics' at bodybuilding.com

 

[BoneCrusher]

I thought some of my posts were long ...

 

[fantasma62]

WTF? How the hell did this go from "sexuality" into a full out religious discussion????
Guys, just like in politics, religion talk is where I tune out. I don't appreciate it when the Jehova's Witnesses come to my door knocking and I sure as hell wouldn't want to push my beliefs upon anyone that doesn't care to hear them. I respect, therefore I expect to be respected....
This thread was quite interesting before, but once religion-talk came in, that was it for me. I am a practicing catholic and I leave my religion-talk to sundays or saturdays (depending on when I go to mass)
By the way John, you are entitled to your opinions, and I am sure you feel you are right. Having said that, please don't take this the wrong way, but I just can't read your posts. Try to shorten them a bit. People like me with ADD (that's what I claim I have anyway) tune out after a little while

 

[John H.]

John.......can you like write less? Seriously bro, your shit is giving me a headache.

Hi Max,

Write less serious? I was responding with the facts - this is a serious subject if a person is wanting to get to the truth, not conjecture. After we all understand what is the truth then we can get less serious - and even humorous. Sex is SUPPOSED to be fun too, and not just "serious".

Sorry for the headache, but I think you will find it is those that want others to not understand and enjoy and appreciate Sex in all its variety that are giving us a REAL HEADACHE. Not me.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

WTF? How the hell did this go from "sexuality" into a full out religious discussion????
Guys, just like in politics, religion talk is where I tune out. I don't appreciate it when the Jehova's Witnesses come to my door knocking and I sure as hell wouldn't want to push my beliefs upon anyone that doesn't care to hear them. I respect, therefore I expect to be respected....
This thread was quite interesting before, but once religion-talk came in, that was it for me. I am a practicing catholic and I leave my religion-talk to sundays or saturdays (depending on when I go to mass)
By the way John, you are entitled to your opinions, and I am sure you feel you are right. Having said that, please don't take this the wrong way, but I just can't read your posts. Try to shorten them a bit. People like me with ADD (that's what I claim I have anyway) tune out after a little while

Hi Fantasma.

Religion IS the REAL problem and why we all are where we are at with regard to Sex and Sexuality so to completely, honestly and accurately discuss Sex and Sexuality religion must be brought into the discussion - it IS their MISunderstanding and MISinformation and outright lying that is at the heart of the problem. If they were honest, accurate, etc. we would not even be having this discussion and we would not be having problems with regard to Sex and Sexuality.

I do try to make my posts as short as possible. I do not have time to waste posting and do not want to waste others time reading what I post. I want it to be short and to the point - and accurate and honest. And contributing.

You say: "...I am sure you feel you are right"... - what I say has nothing to do whatsoever with whether "I feel I am right" but that I am accurate and honest in what I have said - don't believe me? Check it out for yourself and see. I do not want people to ever just "accept" what I have to say but to check it out for themselves and learn for themselves. That way we all KNOW for sure and are not just swallowing what someone has to say. Just "accepting" what someone has to say or what any religion has to say without checking out the FACTS for oneself is where we all run into problems...

I do not like "religion" meddling in my life either or in politics.

I tried making this short - as possible.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Go read some of his 'epics' at bodybuilding.com

Hi Minotaur,

At least here we are given the opportunity to speak freely and honestly and hopefully accurately - which is what America is supposed to be about. That is how anyone learns honestly. Considering ALL viewpoints, accepting all contributions as each has a different "take" on any subject. On that site you are not "allowed" to speak freely unless it is what "they" want you to say and what "they" "agree with". I find it a very bigoted site with regard to free DISCUSSION and with people in general. Unless you talk about "screwing women" and using them for all you can and being "republican" they do not want anyone else on their Board. It is a very slanted site and does not allow free, constructive, honest, accurate discussion. If they do not "like" you they do not even have the decency to talk about it first and see if there is some equal ground so that honest DISCUSSION can prevail. They are just ban-crazy. If they do not agree with what you have to say they just remove you from their site - and do not even have the courtesy to tell you they did - and why. That is childish and immature on their part.

Take Care, John H.

 

[bulletproof1]

john h. sheesh

 

[bulletproof1]

john h. sheesh

ya see how i did that john? i got my point across in 1 sentence. no need to drag it out into a novel.

 

[fantasma62]

I do try to make my posts as short as possible. I do not have time to waste posting and do not want to waste others time reading what I post. I want it to be short and to the point - and accurate and honest. And contributing.

You say: "...I am sure you feel you are right"... - what I say has nothing to do whatsoever with whether "I feel I am right" but that I am accurate and honest in what I have said - don't believe me? Check it out for yourself and see. I do not want people to ever just "accept" what I have to say but to check it out for themselves and learn for themselves. That way we all KNOW for sure and are not just swallowing what someone has to say. Just "accepting" what someone has to say or what any religion has to say without checking out the FACTS for oneself is where we all run into problems...
Take Care, John H.

Hey John, thanks for the post, I hope you didn't misunderstand my need for a shorter post as mocking you. I was serious about not being able to read the whole thing. I get bored very fast....
Regarding religion, I have my beliefs, you have yours. No need to check anything. I am not just "accepting" what you say. My problem here is that it seems that you are sending an anti-religion message, at least it seems that way, and it feels like you are trying to convince me that I should not believe either. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned the Jehova's Witnesses. I like my religion, I am open minded and I don't meddle. I may have misunderstood you, and if I did, accept my apologies, I misread.
If I didn't, here is my main belief. We have free will. I am free to believe in what some will call "Fairy Tales", while others are free to worship a paper clip or a nail....
I respect your views. I don't agree with you completely but I respect your views....
Take care John

 

[Spitfire]

why do I even bother coming back into this thread.

 

[John H.]

ya see how i did that john? i got my point across in 1 sentence. no need to drag it out into a novel.

Hi Bullet,

Anyone can do what you just did. I understand completely - but you have to ask yourself: on this subject, am I (meaning anyone here) CONTRIBUTING TO others UNDERSTANDING accurately, completely and honestly for their betterment and that of others?

My response is directed at helping others and sharing with others what I have learned and experienced to HELP them to "figure it all out"... If you do not wish to read what I post you are entirely free to not that is your choice. I never ask anyone to just "accept" what I say ever - check it out for yourself and see if what I say is accurate, honest, complete, etc. Everyone makes mistakes including me. We all learn - lifelong.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Hey John, thanks for the post, I hope you didn't misunderstand my need for a shorter post as mocking you. I was serious about not being able to read the whole thing. I get bored very fast....
Regarding religion, I have my beliefs, you have yours. No need to check anything. I am not just "accepting" what you say. My problem here is that it seems that you are sending an anti-religion message, at least it seems that way, and it feels like you are trying to convince me that I should not believe either. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned the Jehova's Witnesses. I like my religion, I am open minded and I don't meddle. I may have misunderstood you, and if I did, accept my apologies, I misread.
If I didn't, here is my main belief. We have free will. I am free to believe in what some will call "Fairy Tales", while others are free to worship a paper clip or a nail....
I respect your views. I don't agree with you completely but I respect your views....
Take care John

Hi Tony,

I am against anything that is untruthful, harmful, inaccurate, incomplete, etc. - INCLUDING but not limited to religion IF what they say or propose or postulate is wrong and harmful and dishonest, etc. It is NOT ME who is "knocking" religion but religion itself by its practices, past and present. IF it is truly truthful, etc. I have no problem with it at all but their past and present practices leave a hell of a lot to be desired... There IS MUCH REASON to question, ask, seek truth, etc. Doing that is something God gave each Human Being the ability to do within that person´s own bounds. Doing that as best as they can helps them and helps others as well. Just "accepting" is where we all get into grave trouble. God, if He is honest, sincere, complete, etc. WELCOMES ALL to QUESTION Him and His very existance HONESTLY AND OPENLY AND COMPLETELY from ALL viewpoints...

I see a tremendous void between "religion" and God and Christ - a TREMENDOUS VOID. There is so damn much that is "said" "in the name of..." that is very wrong and inaccurate, etc. (NOT that I am saying I know it all - I do not). Everyone is free to "believe" whatever they wish, but I would hope that before doing so that each person does their "homework" first and check out what it is they are "believing in" for its accuracy, honesty, sincereity, completeness, etc. And keep checking to make damn sure. To just "follow" what everyone else is doing is never a good idea or "always right"... Religion HAS BEEN AND IS responsible for a lot of wrongdoing. More people have been killed in the name of religion and politics than for any other reason in the history of the world. I am never going to be a part of that or that wrongdoing.

Take Care, John H.

 

[Minotaur]

Regarding religion, I have my beliefs, you have yours. ... I like my religion, I am open minded and I don't meddle. ...
If I didn't, here is my main belief. We have free will. I am free to believe in what some will call "Fairy Tales", while others are free to worship a paper clip or a nail....
I respect your views. I don't agree with you completely but I respect your views....
Take care John

Tony, you and I seem to have hit it off... I like and respect you, and I think I understand your point. You have your beliefs and faith for you. To make you a better person and bring you closer to God, not to use it as a club to persuade, change or browbeat other people. That is exactly what religion and faith should be. I have the same feelings. I am probably more 'spiritual' than religious. I'm nominally Eastern Orthodox, but I haven't been to church in years, and may never set foot in an Orthodox church again after some of the things our bishops have published about being gay...pretty ignorant and excluding and marginalizing stuff.

I know that's not what religion should be, but unfortunately it's what people see and do. We should mow our own lawn before we tell our neighbor his property looks like shit.

 

[kbm8795]

I think that would require those fanatical "christians" to actually expect to take social responsibility for their own sins, and it's more fun to vilify and persecute others, especially those who appear to have the least likelihood of resistance. Now if they would pass some constitutional amendments prohibiting people who wear polyester blends from having full rights, they'd have something to think about. Those passages, along with the hundreds exhalting members to help the poor, seem to fall by the wayside very quickly when there is a perceived outsider to crucify.

 

[Stickboy]

I think that would require those fanatical "christians" to actually expect to take social responsibility for their own sins, and it's more fun to vilify and persecute others, especially those who appear to have the least likelihood of resistance.

We can see this on the playgrounds of our schoolyards. One doesn't need to be fanatical to engage in this type of behaviour. It is across the board for all races and religions. It appears that no one wants to account for their own shortcomings or sins. They seem to single out something that diverts attention from their own faults.

Those passages, along with the hundreds exhalting members to help the poor, seem to fall by the wayside very quickly when there is a perceived outsider to crucify.

That's not necessarily true. There are fanatics on both sides. Religious and Atheist alike. You are only condeming one side. (I'm not sticking up for fanatics on either side). I notice you only consider "religious" fanatics. Fact is, both extremes engage in the same type of behaviours. (So do people in the middle. It's easier to make someone or something a target, to avoid being one yourself)

 

[kbm8795]

I tend to agree with that, except I believe one side in particular spends a lot of time trying to legislate restrictions on civil rights based on their denominational "beliefs." When that happens, it becomes persecution with practical and material damages. Please don't mistake my statements about some "religious" beliefs as applying to all - even if our current President seems to limit taxpayer assistance to organizations that most often display that persecution complex and then attempts to try to regain the middle ground by preaching tolerance.

I don't tend to find atheists quoting scriptural interpretation as an excuse to persecute - just a week ago I watched a televangelist rage for twenty minutes on the validity of discrimination against sexual minorities, basing that belief on biblical doctrine and the unsubstantiated claim that their condition is not "innate." When they use that reasoning, it certainly opens them right up to persecuting other denominations, since religion isn't an innate characteristic. And that becomes much easier to do than taking social responsibility for their own behaviors, including propagating outright lies in order to continue deflecting attention.

This is easily shown in how common it is for a heterosexual to break one of the Commandments and be readily absolved of their sin, especially when it is of a sexual nature. While these ministers rage that a gay couple who have lived together for 20 years can't be allowed to inherit each other's property or plan their own funerals, we never violate the "sanctity" of the relationships of a rapist, sex offender, pedophile, wife beater, murderer or adulterer. Those bonds are considered above the interest of the State, which doesn't even require heterosexuals to consummate a relationship in order to have a marriage recognized.

And while the "religious" argument is that these people can repent from their sins while gays are celebrating their "sinful" life, there isn't a lot of evidence that most of those heterosexual criminals ever necessarily change their behavior, although we certainly put a lot more money and research into attempting to rehabilitate their condition than what we've poured into finding a gay "cure" or acknowledgement of how that condition exists. I think sometimes that failure (of both government and religion) must stand out pretty strongly to those people, because it indicates either we don't care to "help" them and have accepted that condition as a natural part of the social fabric, or that it has been just too easy to crucify them. I have never heard a single televangelist advocate more money going into research to better identify the reasons for their existence, but I hear plenty about how they should be persecuted and victimized. In the same vein, I would think gays should be suspicious of the claims that their condition is "environmental" or of "upbringing," because I've never heard a minister advocate punishing the heterosexual parents or extended family. . .only the victim. On the contrary - they tend to like to put large wedges between that gay person and their own families in order to isolate the victim even more, xpecting the victim to take full responsibility for their situation.

 

[esmerelda]

I'm sorry.....I've been away for some time....but I thought the idea for these threads was for some lighthearted banter...................???? Its taken me sooooooo long just to get to the end....I almost forgot what the bloody thing was about....how about we all lighten up......and have a little fun!!!! Where's my sparing partner Albob when I need him!!!

 

[John H.]

I tend to agree with that, except I believe one side in particular spends a lot of time trying to legislate restrictions on civil rights based on their denominational "beliefs." When that happens, it becomes persecution with practical and material damages. Please don't mistake my statements about some "religious" beliefs as applying to all - even if our current President seems to limit taxpayer assistance to organizations that most often display that persecution complex and then attempts to try to regain the middle ground by preaching tolerance.

I don't tend to find atheists quoting scriptural interpretation as an excuse to persecute - just a week ago I watched a televangelist rage for twenty minutes on the validity of discrimination against sexual minorities, basing that belief on biblical doctrine and the unsubstantiated claim that their condition is not "innate." When they use that reasoning, it certainly opens them right up to persecuting other denominations, since religion isn't an innate characteristic. And that becomes much easier to do than taking social responsibility for their own behaviors, including propagating outright lies in order to continue deflecting attention.

This is easily shown in how common it is for a heterosexual to break one of the Commandments and be readily absolved of their sin, especially when it is of a sexual nature. While these ministers rage that a gay couple who have lived together for 20 years can't be allowed to inherit each other's property or plan their own funerals, we never violate the "sanctity" of the relationships of a rapist, sex offender, pedophile, wife beater, murderer or adulterer. Those bonds are considered above the interest of the State, which doesn't even require heterosexuals to consummate a relationship in order to have a marriage recognized.

And while the "religious" argument is that these people can repent from their sins while gays are celebrating their "sinful" life, there isn't a lot of evidence that most of those heterosexual criminals ever necessarily change their behavior, although we certainly put a lot more money and research into attempting to rehabilitate their condition than what we've poured into finding a gay "cure" or acknowledgement of how that condition exists. I think sometimes that failure (of both government and religion) must stand out pretty strongly to those people, because it indicates either we don't care to "help" them and have accepted that condition as a natural part of the social fabric, or that it has been just too easy to crucify them. I have never heard a single televangelist advocate more money going into research to better identify the reasons for their existence, but I hear plenty about how they should be persecuted and victimized. In the same vein, I would think gays should be suspicious of the claims that their condition is "environmental" or of "upbringing," because I've never heard a minister advocate punishing the heterosexual parents or extended family. . .only the victim. On the contrary - they tend to like to put large wedges between that gay person and their own families in order to isolate the victim even more, xpecting the victim to take full responsibility for their situation.

Hi Kbm,

There's a hell-of-a-lot of TRUTH in what you have said!

One of the main reasons our Founding Fathers wanted SEPARATION of church and state was because of the ABUSES of "religion" and "religious leaders" - and people. History and past and present practices prove our Founding Fathers were RIGHT ON and ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in wanting this separation. They KNEW what had happened in the past and what was happening at the time. And they could invision the future if "religion" had any part in the "operation" of this country. The USA would be exactly like the Middle East is now (and has been for its entire past) if this country had not been founded on separation of church and state and I can see "religion" "creeping in" trying to take control and influence the operation of government and the influence of legislation. I am not being paranoid here - just SEEING what attempts ARE being made... If "religion" were allowed to have the power it has in the Middle East this country would be in constant turmoil and at war, unending. What a person "believes" MUST BE BASED ON ABSOLUTE TRUTH and based on ALL INFORMATION FROM ALL SOURCES ALL THE TIME - complete, accurate, honest, etc. And always subject to review to make damn sure of that accuracy...

Government is for the government of the people WITHOUT regard to an individual's personal "religion". "Religion" IS MAN MADE and very often VERY FAR from God and/or Christ.

Anyone's beliefs in anything should never harm anyone for any reason.

And with particular regard to Sex and Sexuality, it MUST ALWAYS BE that those involved BE of age and ability of consent and give that consent freely. NO ONE MUST EVER involve those who do not freely consent, are old enough to make those decisions (including mentally so), and those involved must care for each other sincerely and honestly.

Using and/or abusing someone is never right by anyone.

Take Care, John H.

 

[bulletproof1]

damn john i bet you go through a keyboard every month.

 

[MaxMirkin]

What have we atheists ever done that was that extreme? (Ok maybe the whole "Soviet Union" thing, but aside from that? )

 

[kbm8795]

I don't think that atheism necessarily means Soviet communism - and the Soviets have their own track record of sending these people as "undesireables" to concentration camps right alongside religious zealots. And while we readily reported on "godless" communism and the persecution of christians in the Soviet Union, we ignored how they were apparently mistreating their gay citizens.

At the same time, being "christian" isn't the exclusive copyright of the 700 Club, even if Pat & Co. would like everyone to believe that. What is more interesting is that no one seems to question how "christian" those people really are - as long as you can quote a few bible verses, persecution is fine. But if I would take the attitude of rightwing "christians," and reverse the accusations, other denominations could define themselves as the true "christians" and accuse these churches of being Satanic because of their persecution policies.

Just because atheists don't seem to quote biblical scripture to back up persecution doesn't mean some of them don't persecute - they just don't base it on their "untouchable" religious "beliefs." There are quite a few religious groups who are opposed to extremist evangelicals - they just don't seem to be attempting to dictate legislation or demand that everyone's values follow their particular faith or face loss of their constitutional rights.

 

[fantasma62]

I'm sorry.....I've been away for some time....but I thought the idea for these threads was for some lighthearted banter...................???? Its taken me sooooooo long just to get to the end....I almost forgot what the bloody thing was about....how about we all lighten up......and have a little fun!!!! Where's my sparing partner Albob when I need him!!!

Esmerelda you are partly right. This thread, when I first read it, seemed like a interesting thread to go to. However, I think this thread was started by John H to speak about religion and it's effect on sexuality. Sorry John, but it looks like you started this thread because you knew that this would be deteriorating into a religious debate. I have sat down to read posts in this thread and all I see from you is an indictment on religion.
Don't get me wrong, I don't take offense to this, and if I did it would have to do with the fact that I am a practicing catholic and you are simply making people like me out to be fanatics, uninformed and just a bunch of blithering idiots. I hadn't taken my time to read everything, but that is the feeling that I am getting. I assure you I don't want to start a holy war, but I don't want someone teaching me about religion. I have studied religion. I know what's bad about religion, but I also know what's good. I am 35 years old, I am not a child. I have informed myself and I am happy believing what I believe in, even if to someone like you it may seem like a fairytale. I'm also happy to be teaching my kids what I believe in. They'll choose to do what they want when they grow up, but right now, their minds are mine...

...or I can always blame "El Minotauro" for getting this mess started

John you definitely got me thinking and drew me out, now it's time for me to go back to my "bad, bad" religion .
No harm done. I am not upset and remember, things sound worse when you write them but if you were in front of me right now, I would be saying the same things that I am saying now and you would know that I don't mean to start a fight....

Later John, take care....

 

[maniclion]

"The purpose of religion is not to build beautiful churches or temples, but to cultivate positive human qualities such as tolerance, generosity and love. Every world religion, no matter what its philosophical view, is founded first and foremost on the precept that we must reduce our selfishness and serve others. Unfortunately, sometimes in the name of religion, people cause more quarrels than they solve. Practitioners of different faiths should realize that each religious tradition has immense intrinsic value as a means for providing mental and spiritual health.

There is a wonderful verse in the Bible about turning swords into ploughshares. It's a lovely image, a weapon transformed into a tool to serve basic human needs, symbolic of an attitude of inner and outer disarmament. In the spirit of this ancient message, I think it is important that we stress today the urgency of a policy that is long overdue; the demilitarization of the entire planet." Dalai Lama #14

Yes the Dalai Lama referenced the Bible, I wish everyone could see it our way. That there exists one path to righteousness yet many styles of traveling it. If I'm skipping and your marching and Shadeeq is hopping in the same direction must everyone only march, skip or hop? Now if someone is crawling back the opposite direction then we should help them up and set them back on course.

 

[fantasma62]

Tony, you and I seem to have hit it off... I like and respect you, and I think I understand your point. You have your beliefs and faith for you. To make you a better person and bring you closer to God, not to use it as a club to persuade, change or browbeat other people. That is exactly what religion and faith should be. I have the same feelings. I am probably more 'spiritual' than religious. I'm nominally Eastern Orthodox, but I haven't been to church in years, and may never set foot in an Orthodox church again after some of the things our bishops have published about being gay...pretty ignorant and excluding and marginalizing stuff.

I know that's not what religion should be, but unfortunately it's what people see and do. We should mow our own lawn before we tell our neighbor his property looks like shit.

Just like I like and respect you and your opinions. I don't judge people no matter what. I believe in giving everyone a chance. That's just me...
John has his views, for which he feels very strongly and so do you. I respect both your views and go on...That's what we should do, have a little tolerance for one another and, oh yeah, have a little fun (I just added that because I am really beginning to sound like a freaking Hallmark card). It's ridiculous when someone who has no business being philosophical, decides to rant...that's me....

 

[Minotaur]

...and if I did it would have to do with the fact that I am a practicing catholic and you are simply making people like me out to be fanatics, uninformed and just a bunch of blithering idiots. ... I know what's bad about religion, but I also know what's good. I am 35 years old, I am not a child. I have informed myself and I am happy believing what I believe in, even if to someone like you it may seem like a fairytale.

...or I can always blame "El Minotauro" for getting this mess started

As hurt as I've been by organized religion (I'll get over it), I and others like me have to realize that the people are the church. Not the trappings and incense and candles and icons or statues or vestments and chanting and ...

The church is the people, and the people are people. People who try to do good, who try to be good, and who try to see good. I know some very devout Catholics who, by stereotypical thinking, should be so judgemental of me. But they're not.

Religion is not all bad. But then again, I'm preaching to the choir.

...or I can always blame "El Minotauro" for getting this mess started

Sure, blame the gay schismatic.

 

[Minotaur]

It's ridiculous when someone who has no business being philosophical, decides to rant...that's me....

I'm careful what I go on a tirade about. If there's a remote chance it can be used against me, I stay quiet. My Julia Sugarbaker wig stays in its box more often than it comes out.

 

[fantasma62]

I'm careful what I go on a tirade about. If there's a remote chance it can be used against me, I stay quiet. My Julia Sugarbaker wig stays in its box more often than it comes out.

 

[John H.]

Esmerelda you are partly right. This thread, when I first read it, seemed like a interesting thread to go to. However, I think this thread was started by John H to speak about religion and it's effect on sexuality. Sorry John, but it looks like you started this thread because you knew that this would be deteriorating into a religious debate. I have sat down to read posts in this thread and all I see from you is an indictment on religion.
Don't get me wrong, I don't take offense to this, and if I did it would have to do with the fact that I am a practicing catholic and you are simply making people like me out to be fanatics, uninformed and just a bunch of blithering idiots. I hadn't taken my time to read everything, but that is the feeling that I am getting. I assure you I don't want to start a holy war, but I don't want someone teaching me about religion. I have studied religion. I know what's bad about religion, but I also know what's good. I am 35 years old, I am not a child. I have informed myself and I am happy believing what I believe in, even if to someone like you it may seem like a fairytale. I'm also happy to be teaching my kids what I believe in. They'll choose to do what they want when they grow up, but right now, their minds are mine...

...or I can always blame "El Minotauro" for getting this mess started

John you definitely got me thinking and drew me out, now it's time for me to go back to my "bad, bad" religion .
No harm done. I am not upset and remember, things sound worse when you write them but if you were in front of me right now, I would be saying the same things that I am saying now and you would know that I don't mean to start a fight....

Later John, take care....

Hi Tony,

When I started this thread it WAS to ask a question simply and get and honest answer and really, nothing more - but you can see whenever Sex and Sexuality is talked about is almost always gets caught up with the discussion of religion (which IS at the heart of any "problems" there may be) and other bull that is "juvenile"...

I would like to be able to ask the question simply and straightforeword and get an honest answer.

As TO RELIGION, it IS the "author" of itself and what it does or does not. If I have cause to report a "negative" about any religion it is not because I am so "smart" and am the "only one" who sees the problem - I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination... But i do not just let important "things" just "slide by" either especially when a subject such as this is so very important to understand, know about, and helpful to everyone. I am not trying to deteriorate this thread into a religious debate either. I was wanting honest accurate information and share that with others like-interested...

What people "believe in" really should have complete honesty, rock-solid foundation, total accuracy as is humanly possible - to just "believe" in something because others "are" is not helpful to anyone nor honest and sincere... In the end it is actually damning.

I REALLY APPRECIATE people such as yourself that are very straightforeword and tell it as they see it... AND (hopefully) open-minded and consider ALL INFORMATION FROM ALL SOURCES... ALL the time.

Any "indictment" of religion is caused by that "religion" itself. I am just commenting on what I HAVE SEEN for myself. If there is wrong it is incumbent upon "RELIGION" to straighten its "act" up ITSELF - IF it is at all truthful, etc.

When we are honest about all things and look at all things honestly and completely and accurately it helps all of us.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Just like I like and respect you and your opinions. I don't judge people no matter what. I believe in giving everyone a chance. That's just me...
John has his views, for which he feels very strongly and so do you. I respect both your views and go on...That's what we should do, have a little tolerance for one another and, oh yeah, have a little fun (I just added that because I am really beginning to sound like a freaking Hallmark card). It's ridiculous when someone who has no business being philosophical, decides to rant...that's me....

Hi Tony,

This world belongs to everyone and everyone has a right to make it better - for everyone else. Truthfully so.

I say to you here what I would say to you face-to-face. I do not see you starting anything here. I am glad for the DISCUSSION and willingness to honestly help out.

Take Care, John H.