Behind The Neck Military Pressing

[ZackAttack]

I am not a fan of doing laterals or db work for medial/rear deltoids. They just don't seem challenging or beneficial enough from a power-lifting standpoint.

I was wondering if BTN Military pressing (standing up with a BB) would help strengthen medial/rear delts and the RC?

I have read that BTN puts the shoulder joint in a compromised position exposing one to a RC injury. However, to get very strong, one must strengthen their RC.
If proper form is followed and flexibility is developed, is this exercise very beneficial? I have seen strong men competitors like Maurice and big benchers doing it..so I guess it must be?

What are your thoughts on this exercise? Patrick, could you give your professional input also? Thanks.

 

[Scarface30]

I heard/read that internal/external rotator cuff movement is the best way to strengthen, pre-hab, and re-hab your RC. I've done them before (I really should still be doing them!) and honestly noticed a difference in my shoulder strength.

 

[vader]

they kill my shoulders, I don't do them at all. If they don't hurt then go for it I say

 

[gopro]

With proper warmup and attention to form the BTNP is not a problem for a healthy shoulder joint. Range of motion should not allow the bar to travel lower than the bottom of the earlobes, and eccentric contractions should be slow and controlled.

I would also not use the BTNP at EVERY shoulder session as it can lead to an overuse injury. Every other workout is best.

 

[P-funk]

I am not a fan. The risk is greater than the reward IMO.

Patrick

 

[Merkaba]

...no movements behind the neck. End.

 

[gopro]

Not sure why people are so afraid of behind the neck movements. They are not a problem for a healthy shoulder joint whatsoever if done in a proper ROM and after a warm-up.

I have discussed this whole thing with several strength coaches in my 20 years in this biz, and each feels the same as me.

But hey, to each his own. Don't do it if it hurts

 

[Arnold]

Many years ago behind the neck barbell presses were one of my main shoulder exercises, not to brag but I used to go over 200lbs on them, however the overall muscle growth I attained was minimal compared to how I train shoulders today using very little pressing movements, the only press I do is the Hammer Strength press which is more of a front press, most of my shoulder work today is laterals. I never injured my shoulders doing behind the neck presses, I just don't think they are/were very effective.

 

[P-funk]

Given that we don't have x-ray eyes or MRI eyes to see into the individual, I wouldn't even know how to guess if someone has a "non-pathological" shoulder to safely perform the movement, given the fact that everyone gets some degree of impingement with specific factors determining if you are going to be pathological or not.

I think if you understand the biomechanics of the shoulder it is safe to say it is not a great exercise. Risk > Reward.

patrick

 

[PainandGain]

Many years ago behind the neck barbell presses were one of my main shoulder exercises, not to brag but I used to go over 200lbs on them, however the overall muscle growth I attained was minimal compared to how I train shoulders today using very little pressing movements, the only press I do is the Hammer Strength press which is more of a front press, most of my shoulder work today is laterals. I never injured my shoulders doing behind the neck presses, I just don't think they are/were very effective.

Really? You feel you see more results from the laterals?
I always thought they did wonders for my rear delts.. but never do i do front or side raises, since i do military presses coupled with BTN presses.

 

[Arnold]

I always thought they did wonders for my rear delts.

rear delts?

 

[PainandGain]

rear delts?

Posterior head.

 

[Built]

Try my shoulder module...

... you'll LIKE it... (and I don't THINK Patrick will hate it...?)

Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Dave Tate told me he liked it. <obvious name drop>

 

[Arnold]

Posterior head.

I know what you meant, just trying to figure out how a behind the neck press works the rear delts, because they don't, at least not directly or anywhere near.

 

[Built]

No, they really don't. Rowing does, though. Work your back and you get rear delts for free.

 

[P-funk]

Try my shoulder module...

... you'll LIKE it... (and I don't THINK Patrick will hate it...?)

Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Dave Tate told me he liked it. <obvious name drop>

It is fine.

I just think of cleans as a lower extremity exercise more than a shoulder exercise because the whole point is that the hips do majority of the work (aside from the shrug at the top of the pull).

patrick

 

[P-funk]

I know what you meant, just trying to figure out how a behind the neck press works the rear delts, because they don't, at least not directly or anywhere near.

I don't think this is what he is thinking; but, from a biomechanical stand point, the behind the next press is putting the shoulder into a lot of abduction during the concentric portion. Because all three heads insert into the deltoid tuberosity, they all three effectively abduct the shoulder, with slight variations in movement in other planes (front delts in flexion and slight internal rotation and rear delts in extension and slight external rotation).

patrick

 

[PainandGain]

No no no.
I do pull-ups + rows for posterior delts.

Military/BTNP for middle head and front

Bench for anterior also

 

[Built]

It is fine.

I just think of cleans as a lower extremity exercise more than a shoulder exercise because the whole point is that the hips do majority of the work (aside from the shrug at the top of the pull).

patrick

I know, and I though so too, but my delts blew up when I started doing hang cleans. I've mentioned this to strength coaches who all said what you said.

I've told this to a number of my friends and they've all noticed the same thing I did - better delt development than they had ever experienced before.

I'm really thinking it's the tug on the insertions; the fast eccentric on the "pull" and again on the drop-and-catch to the thigh before starting the next rep, but the only parts I'm sure of are: "they're fun" and "my shoulders FINALLY grew". They're a good movement so I don't mind recommending them, even though I can only guess at the mechanism through which they appear to elicit growth.

 

[gopro]

Given that we don't have x-ray eyes or MRI eyes to see into the individual, I wouldn't even know how to guess if someone has a "non-pathological" shoulder to safely perform the movement, given the fact that everyone gets some degree of impingement with specific factors determining if you are going to be pathological or not.

I think if you understand the biomechanics of the shoulder it is safe to say it is not a great exercise. Risk > Reward.

patrick

Sorry my friend...totally disagree. And I think it is safe to say that I understand the biomechanics of the shoulder.

I myself have had a severe rotator cuff injury...due to a unrelated to weight lifting incident...and to this day have zero problems with behind the neck presses or pulldowns. If done with care they will NOT cause shoulder problems. This is a myth. The human body is capable of handling alot more than people often believe as long as you handle it correctly.

 

[T_man]

Try my shoulder module...

... you'll LIKE it... (and I don't THINK Patrick will hate it...?)

Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Dave Tate told me he liked it. <obvious name drop>

I'm so excited to try this one out on monday It's gonna be a complete shock to my shoulders hopefully.

But talking about your awesome delt growth, are you sure that was from the hang cleans? It could have been from the arnold presses and corner pushes.
Either way, I'll have a go for a month on my bulk and let you know how it goes.

<I'm actually excited!>

As for BTNP I just thought it put alot of stress on my neck and lower back rather than my RC. My neck was always sore from ducking out of the way while having the traps exert pressure on them, and in doing so placing my lower back in an awkward position. It could have just been due to my inflexibility though.

 

[Built]

I'm with Patrick - there's no need for BTN pressing, and it's not a biomechanically great movement for a lot of people. If you feel okay doing them, that's great - I have movements I like to do that aren't biomechanically wonderful either - for some weird reason my personal geometry likes weighted bench dips, so I do 'em, but I don't sing their praises to others.

T-man, I had been doing Arnies for years. The corner presses have been a recent addition, and seem to have complemented my other shoulder-work quite nicely.

<shrugs>

Try it and see.

As an added perk, you should also see your traps and forearms come up from the heavy hang cleans.

 

[Goodfella9783]

I don't do anything behind the neck either, just my personal preference. When I was a little younger I used to do an exercise where during the set I'd alternate front and behind the neck presses because I saw Rocky doing it

Whether or not it is "safe" probably depends on many factors.

My shoulder routine basically is incline bench and lateral raises.

 

[T_man]

mmm lovely! i started doing upright rows for the first time about a month ago and my traps are like sticking up now and it's great! my delts and triceps need work and once they're up to scratch i'll look so buff <excited>

but back on topic, I never really felt that "burn" from BTNP as compared to normal presses

 

[T_man]

I don't do anything behind the neck either, just my personal preference. When I was a little younger I used to do an exercise where during the set I'd alternate front and behind the neck presses because I saw Rocky doing it

Whether or not it is "safe" probably depends on many factors.

My shoulder routine basically is incline bench and lateral raises.

I used to do that thing lol. I don't know how merciful it was on my RC rotating that heavy weight but I didn't do it for too long

 

[Built]

BTNs are okay-ish for some people (I'm not one of 'em), and they seem to know who they are so I'll let sleeping dogs lie with that one - I'm not a fan of upright rows at all, though.

T-man, you'll love the cleans.

 

[Yanick]

Me and Pat talked about a similar topic the other day. We were talking about round back lifts and how some people, IE strongman and stupid gym people, can do them with no, apparent, harm for years on end. In the end though, that one moment where something 'gives' and you hurt yourself bad pretty much negates whatever gains the lift gave you. I look at behind the neck presses in the same way. Sure there are some freaks out there who can do it for years on end with no problems but I'll probably dislocate my shoulder, rip my subscapularis or get crazy tendonitis after a couple of weeks. So in the end, as with anything else, there are exceptions to any rule or 'norm' but with this stuff risk is greater than reward. Especially if you aren't getting paid to be in the greatest shape possible.

 

[Built]

See that's just it - the "bang for buck" ratio just isn't there.

I mean, EVERY movement you do can injure you, but some are just so much more likely to cause problems.

I'll make a short list off the top of my head:

• Smith squats
• Wider-than-shoulder lat pulldowns or chins
• Upright rows
• BTN pressing
• bench dips (and yes, I sometimes do them, but as I said, I don't generally recommend them; for some reason my body doesn't mind them)
• Heavy leg extensions (I distinguish heavy here because light leg extensions CAN be helpful for depletion workouts and knee tracking, but I only do the top third of the movement)

There are others, but these are frequent offenders. There is NOTHING worked in ANY of these movements that can't be better-stimulated using biomechanically safer movement patterns.

 

[P-funk]

See that's just it - the "bang for buck" ratio just isn't there.

I mean, EVERY movement you do can injure you, but some are just so much more likely to cause problems.

I'll make a short list off the top of my head:

• Smith squats
• Wider-than-shoulder lat pulldowns or chins
• Upright rows
• BTN pressing
• bench dips (and yes, I sometimes do them, but as I said, I don't generally recommend them; for some reason my body doesn't mind them)
• Heavy leg extensions (I distinguish heavy here because light leg extensions CAN be helpful for depletion workouts and knee tracking, but I only do the top third of the movement)

There are others, but these are frequent offenders. There is NOTHING worked in ANY of these movements that can't be better-stimulated using biomechanically safer movement patterns.

I agree with that list.


patrick

 

[gopro]

BTNs are okay-ish for some people (I'm not one of 'em), and they seem to know who they are so I'll let sleeping dogs lie with that one - I'm not a fan of upright rows at all, though.

T-man, you'll love the cleans.

LOL...pretty funny as I LOVE upright rows! What a great movement for widening the delts and working the mid-traps, depending on exactly how you perform them!

To each his or her own of course, however!