Mandatory Helmet Laws

[jmorrison]

My other passion outside of fitness and lifting is riding. Like many others who ride, I tend to be a bit independant, and also have a tendency to want to buck the system.

Many states (20 to be exact) have mandatory helmet laws. This means that you must wear a helmet at all times while operating a motorcycle. The definition of a helmet differs from state to state, but most state that a helmet must fit certain safety parameters, have a strap, and be "approved" by the states governing body.

There are numerous flaws in this system. I will list a few here:

1. The listed safety parameters are not standardized, so what is legal in one state, county, city or town, may be illegal in the next one over. The law is subjective and open to interpretation by the investigating officer on what they consider to be a helmet.

2. Neither DOT, SCHNELL or any other helmet manufacturer has EVER been given any sort of government approval. A DOT approved helmet simply means that the manufacturer of the helmet has inspected the helmet and found it to be inside of their quality standards. Therefor a DOT approved helmet means nothing more than saying "yes, this helmet is within our QC standards".

3. Most of the states laws say that a list of approved helmets must be published by the governing authority. However, these lists are non-existant because of the above paragraph describing the "approval" methods for helmets. Obviously the government cannot say that manufacturer A's helmet is ok, while Manufacturer B's helmet is not, without having some sort of proof that the helmets fit a government standard WHICH DOES NOT EXIST ANYWAY. Writing into your states travel office and requesting a list of the approved helmets results in either no reply, or a reply that no such list can be furnished.

4. Because this list cannot be furnished, who decides what is "approved"? You? Me? The guy SELLING the helmets? The investigating officer? Laws are not supposed to be subjective and be viewed by 3 different cops in 3 different ways.

5. Helmets have NOT been shown to save more lives contrary to propaganda. States with no helmet laws have not been shown to have more or less deaths at over 15mph than states that do per 100 accidents.


Most of the arguments for helmet laws are invalid and ridiculous. First off, as stated above, helmets have not been proven to save lives. Second off, even if they absolutely saved x number of lives per year...so what?! If you are going to insist on attempting to save the lives of people that want to ride, then why not outlaw bikes altogether? They are not safe. Period. Every single person that rides knows this, accepts the risks, and rides anyway. This is like insisting that soldiers carry bandaids into combat in case they get shot.

The ONLY somewhat valid argument I have found for helmet laws is the burden of the uninsured. This is of course assuming that helmets CAN save people, then allowing people to ride without them could create an unneccessary burden on the tax payers should something happen to the rider while uninsured. This is why I like states like Floridas helmet laws. If a rider is of a certain age, and carries sufficient insurance, then wearing a helmet becomes a personal choice.

I am linking a site about the current fight going on in CA, that was started by a man named Quig, who was an interesting fellow to say the least. If you are bored, google him and you will find some fun stuff. He single handedly took on an entire states judicial system and fought the good fight for many years, until he passed away from illness. His friends took up the fight and it continues today.

Bikers Of Lesser Tolerance of Nevada

BOLT of California - Home

Anyway, any thoughts on this? Please discuss.

 

[Dark Geared God]

who am i to say you can't smash your head open on the street..

 

[pitman]

who am i to say you can't smash your head open on the street..

so true only takes a squirl to wipe your brains all over the street.. even the occ idiots wear helmets...

 

[Dark Geared God]

it will free up some of that goverment(free) health care for everyone

 

[Zaphod]

To require helmet use is not something I believe in. I wear a helmet when I ride because I feel it is the smart thing to do.

Think about it. Motorcycle racers wear helmets everytime they go out. Sometimes the crash at speeds well over 100mph and occasionally closer to 200mph. Unless it's a highside they are probably going to get up and walk away from it.

Regarding a fullface versus an open or 1/2 helmet look at it like this: If you have an unintended dismount from your motorcycle you have a 1 in 4 chance of doing a face plant. Which means should you go face first into the road you are going to need reconstructive surgery to fix your mug.

Wear them if you want, don't if you don't.

 

[KelJu]

You forgot the option for:
"No, people should mind their own fucking business."
I have yet to see anything that says I helmet is worth the trouble. I rode motorcycles for most of my life, and I refused to wear a gay ass fucking helmet. The only exception is street bikes, and that is only because you can't see into the wind without protection, and a motor cycle helmet look cooler than a pair of goggles.

If you aren't going to make people wear full out Kevlar body armor, then shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to make fat fucks diet, shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to ban alcohol, shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to outlaw tobacco, shut the fuck up!

There are a million ways to die, and there are million times more dangerous shit being done everyday. Picking on bikers is fucking absurd.

 

[pitman]

You forgot the option for:
"No, people should mind their own fucking business."
I have yet to see anything that says I helmet is worth the trouble. I rode motorcycles for most of my life, and I refused to wear a gay ass fucking helmet. The only exception is street bikes, and that is only because you can't see into the wind without protection, and a motor cycle helmet look cooler than a pair of goggles.

If you aren't going to make people wear full out Kevlar body armor, then shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to make fat fucks diet, shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to ban alcohol, shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to outlaw tobacco, shut the fuck up!

There are a million ways to die, and there are million times more dangerous shit being done everyday. Picking on bikers is fucking absurd.

i love kelju's thoughts...

 

[DOMS]

I've seen evidence that wearing a helmet does help in the case of a collision. They save lives in a similar, but less effective, manner as seatbelts. Riding a motorcycle is stupid to begin with, but if someone wants to lower the survivability even more by not wearing a helmet--more power to them. It has a chlorinating effect on the gene pool.

 

[GearsMcGilf]

Pitman wears a helmet and doesn't even own a motorcycle.

Helmet laws and seatbelt laws are just examples of the nanny fukking govt we have now. We don't need laws protecting us from our own stupidity IMO. If you wanna ride without a helmet and smear your fucking brains on the highway or become a hood ornament when you crash, it's your own fucking business.

 

[pitman]

im florida a polametto bug will take your eye out !!!!!

 

[pitman]

Pitman wears a helmet and doesn't even own a motorcycle.

Helmet laws and seatbelt laws are just examples of the nanny fukking govt we have now. We don't need laws protecting us from our own stupidity IMO. If you wanna ride without a helmet and smear your fucking brains on the highway or become a hood ornament when you crash, it's your own fucking business.

give me back my huge jockstrap you fuck....

 

[Kathybird]

My father rode for years and had a very bad accident in which he almost died. He hit the car in front of him, sailed off the bike (Ninja 900 that he'd modified on include using airplane fuel) over the two cars in front of him, and was run over by both those cars. What saved his life? The ridiculously thick down vest he had on. He did have on a full face helmet. Did it play a part in saving his life? Possibly, it was pretty banged up.

My husband rode for years. He was in a few minor accidents, one with me on the back. He is currently in the Coast Guard and can name on the fingers of more than one hand fellow Coasties he knew and worked with who have been killed on bikes. It got so bad that the Coast Guard now requires members to complete a driving course, wear prescribed safety gear (leathers), a helmet of course, and a reflective vest.

I said yes to mandatory helmet laws, but I want that to include full-body leathers as well. You have the freedom to risk your life. Sure, I understand the wind in your hair feeling, I like a nice adrenaline rush myself. But you don't bungee jump without the right gear, do you? Or snowboard? Or skydive? There is someone out there who will be negatively affected by your death, whether it be the taxpayer for scraping your sorry ass off the pavement or a loved one who didn't have to lose you for your own thrills. It's selfish.

And what about the car drivers who don't see bikes? I'm aware of them because of my family's history with them but they're hard to see at night and some assholes just use crotch rockets as an excuse to weave in and out of traffic inadvertently, generally at 90 mph. How do you think some mother and her small child are going to feel when mom has to look back for a second because of something the kid's doing and a biker chooses that moment to weave, and then there's blood all over the street? Like I said, selfish.

 

[jmorrison]

no joke, I had one of those smack me in the forehead last year in FL and almost took me off my bike. Those things are scary!

I don't agree (obviously) that riding is "stupid" but I do agree that it is risky. Being involved in a dangerous hobby is only subjectively stupid. People that have never rock climbed would probably say that it is stupid, the same can be said of skydiving, bunjee jumping, bicycle riding, distance running, swimming, etc etc ad nauseum. One of the most facinating aspects of this is that is has been shown that 83% of polled NON RIDERS agree with helmet laws, while the actual riders are split in the middle.

Would wearing a helmet cut down on the amount of deaths that joggers suffer each year from being hit by cars? Probably. Should we now require joggers to wear helmets? Does this mean that joggers are "stupid"?

Paternal laws like this are ridiculous. I think we should immediately outlaw McDonalds. As heart disease is the #1 killer in America, it is our duty to protect people from themselves. I mean...comon.

Keju said it the best, I think people should mind their own business.

 

[jmorrison]

My father jogged for years and was struck by a car and he almost died. The car behind him struck him in the pedestrian crossing after running a red light. What saved his life? The ridiculously thick down vest he had on. He did have on a heavy duty wool cap. Did it play a part in saving his life? Possibly, it was pretty banged up.

My husband jogged for years. He was in a few minor accidents, one with me jogging with him. He is currently in the Coast Guard and can name on the fingers of more than one hand fellow Coasties he knew and worked with who have been killed while jogging. It got so bad that the Coast Guard now requires members to wear prescribed safety gear (reflective vests), and a helmet.

I said yes to mandatory helmet laws for joggers, but I want that to include full-body leathers as well. You have the freedom to risk your life. Sure, I understand the wind in your hair feeling, I like a nice adrenaline rush myself. But you don't bungee jump without the right gear, do you? Or snowboard? Or skydive? There is someone out there who will be negatively affected by your death, whether it be the taxpayer for scraping your sorry ass off the pavement or a loved one who didn't have to lose you for your own thrills. It's selfish.

And what about the car drivers who don't see joggers? I'm aware of them because of my family's history with them but they're hard to see at night and some assholes just run all over the place without looking where they are going. How do you think some mother and her small child are going to feel when mom has to look back for a second because of something the kid's doing and a jogger chooses that moment to weave, and then there's blood all over the street? Like I said, selfish.

I am not mocking you by writing this, and I appreciate you sharing your families story. I am simply pointing out the flaw in this type of thinking. you could replace "jogger" with almost any subjectively risky hobby and have the same argument. Where do you draw the line? Where do we stop trying to save people, and start giving them personal responsibility.

Just food for thought.

 

[Dark Geared God]

You forgot the option for:
"No, people should mind their own fucking business."
I have yet to see anything that says I helmet is worth the trouble. I rode motorcycles for most of my life, and I refused to wear a gay ass fucking helmet. The only exception is street bikes, and that is only because you can't see into the wind without protection, and a motor cycle helmet look cooler than a pair of goggles.

If you aren't going to make people wear full out Kevlar body armor, then shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to make fat fucks diet, shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to ban alcohol, shut the fuck up. If you aren't going to outlaw tobacco, shut the fuck up!

There are a million ways to die, and there are million times more dangerous shit being done everyday. Picking on bikers is fucking absurd.

well said

 

[pitman]

well said

 

[jmorrison]

it will free up some of that goverment(free) health care for everyone

In 2000 (the only year I could find info for), approximately 1.55 percent of total U.S. health care costs are attributable to all motor vehicle crashes. Thats allmotor hehicle crashes. I don't think we would be freeing up much

Also in reference to my earlier posts. 20% of all motorcycle injuries involve head injuries, while almost 90% of injured in car accidents involve head injuries. Does that mean that people in cars should start wearing helmets? I mean, it would stand to reason that more lives would be saved.

No? Guess why you feel that way. Because it directly impacts you as a car driver, and you don't want to be regulated in that way. You are adults, who feel that they can make their own decisions about whether to wear a helmet or not. Would it be safer to wear one? Sure, why not, and there certainly shouldn't be any laws AGAINST wearing one. But it should be voluntary.

Bikers have no problems with helmets, or the people who wear them. They have a problem with having the choice taken away.

 

[Little Wing]

going to ventura from vegas two things were really cool

1) actually being able to say you rode thru death valley on a bike and qualify to wear one of the little black frying pan pins and

2) crossing over into california and being able to take our fucking helmets off.


it's born to be wild not born to be a safe little pussy.

 

[jmorrison]

I was only mildly hot for you in sort of a school-boy infatuation kind of way until now.

I full on have a crush on you now.

If my girlfriend and I ever split, interested in a reasonably attractive reasonably wealthy guy that rides? If not, I will still love you, but only in that sort-of creepy stalkerish kind of way that you get on internet forums.

 

[maniclion]

I hate helmets, you can't see for shit....they probably cause more accidents....

Luckily Hawaii has no helmet law....

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I am not mocking you by writing this, and I appreciate you sharing your families story. I am simply pointing out the flaw in this type of thinking. you could replace "jogger" with almost any subjectively risky hobby and have the same argument. Where do you draw the line? Where do we stop trying to save people, and start giving them personal responsibility.

Just food for thought.

You don't jog at highway speeds. Also, what about the situation where the driver of the car that hits the motorcyclist and the driver is completely at fault? That has nothing to do with the motorcyclist taking responsibility.

I was hit by a car while riding my bike (bicycle). It's scary as hell. Luckily I didn't hit my head but I could have meant the difference between walking away and being a vegetable for the rest of my life. I'm also for mandatory bicycle helmet laws.

 

[tucker01]

Lets repeal the seatbelt laws while were at it. They're too restrictive anyway.

 

[DOMS]

Lets repeal the seatbelt laws while were at it. They're too restrictive anyway.

True story: some guy decided to be an advocate of getting seatbelt laws repealed. The problem? He was in an accident and was ejected from his car, causing his death.

Ah, here's the snopes article on it.

 

[DOMS]

You don't jog at highway speeds. Also, what about the situation where the driver of the car that hits the motorcyclist and the driver is completely at fault? That has nothing to do with the motorcyclist taking responsibility.

And this is why I called riding a motorcycle stupid. It's not because of the driver or the motorcycle, it's because of the situation. You can be Evel Knievel, and all it takes is one inattentive driver to ruin your day.

 

[bandaidwoman]

say what you want about mortality rates ( some studies do show benefit ) but there is no question that cost of medical care for motorcyclists in accidents without helmets are exorbitantly more than a helmeted rider

Motorcycle helmet use and injury outcome and hospitalization costs from crashes in Washington State.
this is just one such research article


When I was a paramedic in New York I never pulled out a dead person wearing seatbelts, I arrived on scenes all the time where a non seat belted person was thrown through the windshield and impaled on tree limbs or other sharp objects all the time,
Most of my DOA pronouncements were with non helmetted bikers. Also, non helmeted motor cyclists comprised the majority of facial reconstruction surgeries when I was doing my month of ENT/plastics rotation. It's amazing how asphalt can rip off your lower jaw and half your face so nicely when you are going 45 mph....

 

[bio-chem]

I was only mildly hot for you in sort of a school-boy infatuation kind of way until now.

I full on have a crush on you now.

If my girlfriend and I ever split, interested in a reasonably attractive reasonably wealthy guy that rides? If not, I will still love you, but only in that sort-of creepy stalkerish kind of way that you get on internet forums.

next time im allowed im going to rep this guy

 

[Little Wing]

I was only mildly hot for you in sort of a school-boy infatuation kind of way until now.

I full on have a crush on you now.

If my girlfriend and I ever split, interested in a reasonably attractive reasonably wealthy guy that rides? If not, I will still love you, but only in that sort-of creepy stalkerish kind of way that you get on internet forums.

lol. the restrictions on a persons right to make choices for themselves is ridiculous. you can't ride a bike without a helmet but feel free to rock climb without a rope, train big cats to jump through hoops of fire, bungee jump, sky dive, hunt bears and swim with sharks.

 

[bio-chem]

lol. the restrictions on a persons right to make choices for themselves is ridiculous. you can't ride a bike without a helmet but feel free to rock climb without a rope, train big cats to jump through hoops of fire, bungee jump, sky dive, hunt bears and swim with sharks.

is this an appropriate use of that smiley?

 

[Little Wing]

is this an appropriate use of that smiley?

if you consider the people who say yea "let's make a helmet law but it's ok to go spelunking or smoke a pack of camels a day" a bunch of jerk offs, then yea.


spelunking
If you ask people who actually go caving, spelunking is the derogatory term for stupid or unprepared cave trips. Origin: "spelunk" is the sound a clumsy caver makes when he slips and falls in a cave and lands in water.

 

[Little Wing]

i read 1 that said spelunking was a term used for fishing for a condom that slipped off during intercourse.