Concern: Not getting strength or size as expected, plus loss of libido

[Old_usmcgrunt]

Bio: 49 y/o male, strength training since late teens, currently do major muscle groups 8-12 sets once/week, fatigue on each set then do another couple of negatives to complete muscle fatigue. Natural test level tested below ???recommended range??? per my physician back in the spring of 2010, but they will only prescribe cream or low dose injections.

AAS status: Ran 1st cycle of Dbol for 8 weeks with huge weight and strength gains, then PCT for 4 weeks. Then ran 500mg Test E per week clean during an 8 week on/2 week off ???Slingshot Cycle??? per Ronnie Rowland, resulting in decent gains plus very good sex drive (especially for my old ass). Currently 5 weeks into another cycle with twice per week injections of 500mg Test E and 400mg EQ, and 1/4mg Dex ED. I get 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per my body weight every day. Strangely, I have no obvious side effects that I can tell other than scrotum shrinkage (which I expected like before), but no mild acne (like I had before). I feel good, but it???s like I???m plateaued already and I miss the sex drive from my clean cycle! Using AAS I expected to break through my plateaus like a mad man???especially at first.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be highly appreciated!

 

[XYZ]

What is your diet like, in detail?

 

[Old_usmcgrunt]

Evening supper will vary of course, but here is my core diet intake throughout every day (Protein/Calories):

Boiled egg (6/70)
Protein shake (128/680)
Can of black beans (25/385)*
Banana (1/105)**
Boiled egg (6/70)
Peanut butter (7/180)
Jack3d b/4 workout (0/0)
New Whey protein shot (42/180)
Protein shake (128/680)
Supper (?/?)
Diet pop, 2 cans/evening (0/0)
Boiled egg (6/70)
Cottage cheese (28/163)
Milk at bedtime (8/80)

*The can of beans will be replaced E3D with tuna and chicken
**EOD an apple

It’s all I can to get all this down. I don’t have the appetite I once did. We eat pretty healthy and avoid crap (high processed food) most of the time. Supper always has some greens!

I’m actually trying not to exceed 3000/day right now because my cardio is very low to nothing (knee problem and 12/23/10 knee surgery).

 

[Old_usmcgrunt]

I realize I forgot a few crucial points of information.

Height and Weight: 5'10" and 250lbs
%BF: Unknown recently, but I am sure it's every bit of 25% now (big gut...38 waist in pants)
Goals: Increase strength while not increasing waist size and %BF

 

[10R]

Evening supper will vary of course, but here is my core diet intake throughout every day (Protein/Calories):

Boiled egg (6/70)
Protein shake (128/680)
Can of black beans (25/385)*
Banana (1/105)**
Boiled egg (6/70)
Peanut butter (7/180)
Jack3d b/4 workout (0/0)
New Whey protein shot (42/180)
Protein shake (128/680)
Supper (?/?)
Diet pop, 2 cans/evening (0/0)
Boiled egg (6/70)
Cottage cheese (28/163)
Milk at bedtime (8/80)

*The can of beans will be replaced E3D with tuna and chicken
**EOD an apple

It???s all I can to get all this down. I don???t have the appetite I once did. We eat pretty healthy and avoid crap (high processed food) most of the time. Supper always has some greens!

I???m actually trying not to exceed 3000/day right now because my cardio is very low to nothing (knee problem and 12/23/10 knee surgery).

here's my .02 cents when looking at your diet to bulk or cut you need 3 things
Protein, carbs and good fats, just from looking at your diet i can see that you have alot of protein which is good but you need lots of carbs and some fats for your muscles to expand. when im bulking up i go off of my lean body mass, lets say your 200lbs of LBM just an example, you should do 350-400 grams of protein around 400 grams of carbs and about 100 grams of monosaturated fats(from eggs, natural peanutbutter, olive oil. etc...)

just my opinion on what can help you put more size and strength on ppl do it in many different ways i find this way works best for me.

 

[CanadaGear]

I don't think its your diet or training. I would drop the Arimidex. It could be what's killing your sex drive. Also, how long was your break between this cycle and your last? If not long enough (especially at your age), your receptors are worn out. You have to up the test intake to get good results again. Consider at least a 50% increase to 750mg/week.

 

[ANIMALHAUS]

I don't think its your diet or training. I would drop the Arimidex. It could be what's killing your sex drive. Also, how long was your break between this cycle and your last? If not long enough (especially at your age), your receptors are worn out. You have to up the test intake to get good results again. Consider at least a 50% increase to 750mg/week.

He's done 8 weeks of a dbol only cycle (???)
500mg of test for 8 weeks
and is currently in week five of his second test cycle. IMHO, I dont really think a moderate amount like 500mg over a short 8 week cycle would do anything to wear down his receptors.

Bunk gear?
Maybe the EQ?
Not sure about how I feel about dropping Arimidex since your bf must be fairly high.
Diet seems good enough to be able to gain SOMETHING while using test.

 

[Caretaker]

Get your BF down before next cycle. Test should always be a base for your cycle. What excercises do you do? Squats, deads and flat bench should be the basis(ab work also). Try adding a protein shake after your workout and maybe a scoop in the milk(skim) at bedtime. Your BF is working against you. Between this and your next(if there is one) cycle, hit the cardio hard 3x a week and do some walking, etc, everyday. You will actually LOOK bigger if you strip away some fat to show the muscle. Thses are just my opinions and not everything works for everyone. There are no guarantees. LOL I cut up on Superdrol so go figure. WTF do I know. Good luck.

 

[XYZ]

Three things:

1. The A/I is probably a little high as the other poster mentioned, try dropping it for a few weeks to see what happens, A/I dosage is different for everyone.

2. The diet looks ok as far as being clean, but I don't think it's enough calories to really start growing the way you're expecting.

3. The test dose might be a little low, as we age we need more to feel the "same" as we did with a lower dose at a younger age.

I would first start with the A/I first, too much will lead to loss of libido, sore joints and mood swings.

 

[CanadaGear]

He's done 8 weeks of a dbol only cycle (???)
500mg of test for 8 weeks
and is currently in week five of his second test cycle. IMHO, I dont really think a moderate amount like 500mg over a short 8 week cycle would do anything to wear down his receptors.

Well, don't forget the guy is 49. If I understood right he did 8 weeks of test at 500/week, then nothing for 2 weeks, then started cyp at 500 with eq at 400. If that's right, its basically one cylce with addtion of eq. That means he's been on test for 15 weeks at the same dose.

 

[Old_usmcgrunt]

The arimidex does have me a bit confused I'll confess. I've read extremes recommending to start taking it from day one of cycle at 0.5mg/ED and even through PCT...to the other extreme where some recommend just having it on hand if needed and not to take otherwise.

Most exciting to me initially were reading about studies claiming it actually increases test levels while reducing the estrogen. I thought the 0.25mg/ED might be a good place to start. Guess not though. Like you've mentioned, everyone is different and tweaking will need to be done to hit that optimum balance.

I actually had thought of increasing my test, but wanted to do that as more of a last resort and change things one at a time. Getting old sucks!

Any more good advice/recommendations?

 

[Work IN Progress]

you said you wanted to get strength gains without your waist getting bigger.
Why not do one thing at a time
Take 3 months and get your weight down then go on your test.
Wasting your money taking dbol by itself too.

 

[Old_usmcgrunt]

I had read about the "Slingshot Cycle" by Ronnie Rowland (I forget if it's on this forum or another) where he says to do 8 weeks on then go off cycle for 2 weeks then back on for 8 again....repeating this indefinitely. During the 2 weeks off he gave options of bridging with a lower dose or dbol, or nothing. I chose to use nothing for my 2 weeks off. Also, after I posted a question about PCT during this 2 weeks, he said the use of clomid or the equivalent would not be necessary for such a short bridge, just mainly diet and lower volume lifting for this short PCT.

That's what my cycle technique has been based on anyway. It's definitely different from the normal AAS cycles I've read about, but he seems to really endorse it with many years of experience as do others it seems.

I originally did the dbol just to see how my body reacted before stepping up to test. I'm definitely learning and willing to consider (within reason) alternative options!

 

[CanadaGear]

I had read about the "Slingshot Cycle" by Ronnie Rowland (I forget if it's on this forum or another) where he says to do 8 weeks on then go off cycle for 2 weeks then back on for 8 again....repeating this indefinitely. During the 2 weeks off he gave options of bridging with a lower dose or dbol, or nothing. I chose to use nothing for my 2 weeks off. Also, after I posted a question about PCT during this 2 weeks, he said the use of clomid or the equivalent would not be necessary for such a short bridge, just mainly diet and lower volume lifting for this short PCT.

That's what my cycle technique has been based on anyway. It's definitely different from the normal AAS cycles I've read about, but he seems to really endorse it with many years of experience as do others it seems.

I originally did the dbol just to see how my body reacted before stepping up to test. I'm definitely learning and willing to consider (within reason) alternative options!

Well in that case you're basically hanging on to what you've gained from your 8 week test only cycle. Don't expect anything from 400mg/week of EQ without increasing test. So that's normal. You killed your sex drive with Arimidex.

 

[cutright]

If estrogen gets too high that will kill ur libido...unless u plan on getting a blood test you will not know...I'm running test e with adex .5 eod and I'm horny as hell....maybe run hcg all the way through ur cycle @500iu 2x per week...with ur high bf% estrogen sides will increase...keep the adex..imho

 

[CanadaGear]

If estrogen gets too high that will kill ur libido...unless u plan on getting a blood test you will not know...I'm running test e with adex .5 eod and I'm horny as hell....maybe run hcg all the way through ur cycle @500iu 2x per week...with ur high bf% estrogen sides will increase...keep the adex..imho

true, but when you shut off your estrogen entirely that will aslo kill your libido. Men need a little estrogen to function normaly.

 

[cutright]

Little estrogen is the key word without blood test he will not know..his estrogen should be between 10pg/ml to 25 pg/ml if he's running test and only taking 1/4 adex I would almost gaurantee he's closer to 50pg/ml 1mg daily would not even block 100% of his estrogen....I'm just saying high bf% will increase estrogen sides....I'm sure he dosent want boobs....I see ur point though...imo I say get blood test and go from there

 

[eastwoodmuscle]

sounds to me like your receptors/body is just used to the androgens.

I would say to try some sd at 20mg e/d for 3-4 weeks, and finish up your cycle, then take some time off, being at your age, you may just need to cruise at 200-250mg e/d.

you can find superdrol (methyldrostanolone) cheap as hell right now. 90 caps for 20bucks some places.

but you add in some sd, and you'll blow up, esp with the test/eq

have you gotten blood work done pre cycle to find out what your base line numbers are?

 

[Old_usmcgrunt]

I do have full blood work up precycle and just today emailed doc about having another blood draw. Results are at home and I'm on the road for work till Friday night. I can look at them again then..

 

[OneWheyOrAnother]

How often would you guys recommend getting blood work done ?

 

[XYZ]

How often would you guys recommend getting blood work done ?

Depends on how often you cycle. I would ALWAYS do it after running a cycle, but wait 8 weeks after you're done to be sure that things have returned to somewhat normal.

I know a guy who ran winstrol for 8 weeks, 4 weeks at 50mg ED and 4 weeks at 100mg, had blood work done 4 weeks after stopping and his ALT liver values were 304, the range is 0-40.

 

[SloppyJ]

Depends on how often you cycle. I would ALWAYS do it after running a cycle, but wait 8 weeks after you're done to be sure that things have returned to somewhat normal.

I know a guy who ran winstrol for 8 weeks, 4 weeks at 50mg ED and 4 weeks at 100mg, had blood work done 4 weeks after stopping and his ALT liver values were 304, the range is 0-40.

Wow. Was he taking any liver care or milk thistle?

 

[XYZ]

Wow. Was he taking any liver care or milk thistle?

Yes, he was......Winstrol is the harshest drug in terms of liver toxicity, I take that back, halo might be but you get the point.

 

[Built]

"I get 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per my body weight every day"
Too much protein for a fat guy. Sorry, I call it like I see it. You need to drop fat. Get down to 210-215 before you do any more bulking. You've got - at most - 185 lbs of lean on you. Protein is dosed by lean mass, not bodyweight. 1 - 2 grams per pound lean mass is usually given as the broad guideline; most of us probably do about 1.5g/lb lean mass, which for you is about 275g daily. Fats at about half a gram per pound lean mass, or about 90g.

 

[gsxrguy]

Run a solid month of clmid 50mg ed and 500-1000 iu a week hcg. Guarantee your libido will be back strong as ever. Its just my opinion.

 

[Old_usmcgrunt]

HCG? Isn't that the human chorionic gonadotrophin diet stuff? I haven't had a chance to spend time reading up on it other than seeing it linked with burning fat not muscle claims. Helps libido too?

 

[Built]

usmcgrunt, maybe look up what HCG ACTUALLY does.

 

[Crank]

i don't think its your diet or training. I would drop the arimidex. It could be what's killing your sex drive. Also, how long was your break between this cycle and your last? If not long enough (especially at your age), your receptors are worn out. You have to up the test intake to get good results again. Consider at least a 50% increase to 750mg/week.

bump!