5/3/1 - Boring But Big variation - intensity for assistance work?

[Phineas]

I'm not talking about the main lift 5 x 10 after the 3 working sets. I'm talking about the 1 assistance exercise. For instance, my deadlift day looks like this:

(1.) Deadlifts: "5/3/1" (whichever week..)

(2.) Deadlifts: 5 x 10 @ 50-60%

(3.) BB Split Squats: 5 x 10 @ ???

I'm thinking 50-60% would work for assistance, as well. He doesn't say much on assistance in the book, just to not overthink it. I just don't want to go too hard, but especially with split squats I want good stimulation from them to augment my squat (which is my main goal for the program).

I used my best 12 rep set for split squats to calculate a range of intensities. 170 (pounds) x 12 (reps) x .0333 + 170 = 238

238 x .50 = 119; 238 x .60 = 142. So, a range of 120 - 140 lbs. Normally, for 3 x 8 I might do something like 135, 155, 165-180. I realize in this program less is more, and I'm really seeing that play out, but I just want to make sure I'm not over or underdoing the assistance. I'd like to make PRs on assistance as well, when possible.

Can anyone recommend a good intensity progression for my 5 x 10 assistance work so that I can augment the main lifts without interfering, while making PRs on those secondary lifts?

 

[Gazhole]

Personally i just stick with a set weight for the entire cycle, then put some extra weight on the bar when i start it all over again. Usually i'll only keep one or two of the same accessory lifts cycle to cycle anyways.

One of the reasons he doesn't really talk hugely about assistance in the book apart from giving ideas on what lifts to choose is that it really doesn't matter too much. I've picked lifts that address issues in the main lifts (box squats for squat depth, hip thrusts for hip drive in the deadlift, etc etc) but really just pick something you like and do a bunch on sets on it.

As the main lifts get heavier, you'll get stronger, and your accessory weight will probably go up anyways. I'd be more worried of overthinking it rather than overdoing it.

 

[Beejis60]

One of the reasons he doesn't really talk hugely about assistance in the book apart from giving ideas on what lifts to choose is that it really doesn't matter too much. I've picked lifts that address issues in the main lifts (box squats for squat depth, hip thrusts for hip drive in the deadlift, etc etc) but really just pick something you like and do a bunch on sets on it.

This. Can't be stated enough.

 

[Phineas]

Personally i just stick with a set weight for the entire cycle, then put some extra weight on the bar when i start it all over again. Usually i'll only keep one or two of the same accessory lifts cycle to cycle anyways.

One of the reasons he doesn't really talk hugely about assistance in the book apart from giving ideas on what lifts to choose is that it really doesn't matter too much. I've picked lifts that address issues in the main lifts (box squats for squat depth, hip thrusts for hip drive in the deadlift, etc etc) but really just pick something you like and do a bunch on sets on it.

As the main lifts get heavier, you'll get stronger, and your accessory weight will probably go up anyways. I'd be more worried of overthinking it rather than overdoing it.

Sounds good to me. Thanks Gaz.

I like this whole having everything calculated ahead of time. I've made progress over the last year, but I'm nowhere near where I believe I could be, and I attribute that to the fact that I'm likely working at too high of an intensity on too many sets. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I'm excited about not having to guess how much weight to use, and whether it will make me stronger. I now have all my main lifts and their corresponding 5 x 10 calculated until early July.

Today will only be my third workout, but from the two so far (squat and bench) I can see the logic in his set progressions. By the time I got to my main set on squats I was warmed up perfectly with no energy wasted, which also added a nice psychological boost, and the main set was fucking beautiful. Though I raped my legs on that set (didn't go to failure, as he says) and then continued with the 5 x 10 plus an assistance exercise, I actually left the gym with more energy than when I started.

 

[gtbmed]

It's a well structured program, that's for certain.

I'm just not a fan of that style of training. I like training the lifts I want to improve with a higher frequency and less volume per session.

 

[Phineas]

It's a well structured program, that's for certain.

I'm just not a fan of that style of training. I like training the lifts I want to improve with a higher frequency and less volume per session.

I hear you on that. Since I moved from bodybuilding to strength training I've always preferred lower volume with a relative higher frequency. I don't like having more than 3 or 4 days between squats or deadlifts.

However, I can already see Wendler's magic working. I go to the gym so fresh and eager, especially on squats and deads -- not having performed them in 8 or 9 days (however long it works out to). I not only have all my sets (including the 5 x 10 for the main lift) calculated and know my minimum reps to beat for the main set but what I'm doing is at the start of the week thinking hard as to how many reps I can do on that set to see if I can beat that number. It's awesome. I go in the gym like a rabid starved wolf, bang out the fairly easy first two working sets, and by the time I get to the main set I'm ready to destroy the rack. It's only been 3 workouts so far but each time I beat my goal reps.

One thing I did to allow myself to squat more often is instead of using a ham assistance after deadlifts 5/3/1 and 5 x 10 is I added BB Split Squats. I don't like his example of leg curls. I hate leg curls, and just about any machine -- let alone isolation. BB Split Squats are easily my favourite assistance exercise in strength training. I think they apply well to both squats and deadlifts, depending on how deep you perform them. Also, they're just plain awesome for leg development. So, this way I get to technically squat twice in the program. I did find I had to drop the weight drastically last night on them after all the deadlifting, though. When I was cutting I split squatted a best of 170 for 12, and last night (now bulking) I did the first 3 x 10 at 135 but decided it would be better to drop to 125 for the remaining 2 sets. I could have easily done them at even more weight but they're taxing my legs unusually hard, and I'm really trying to stress to myself that the assistance should only assist and not interfere.

And holy hell did the main set on deads feel amazing. I've never felt sets so brutal, and they're not even to failure.

 

[gtbmed]

Maybe it's just me, but when I squat less frequently, I find myself dreading it and lacking confidence in the lift. If I'm not squatting at least twice every week I don't like what happens with my form.

I am not at all advanced, so my recovery between sessions is good. What I hate is squatting once a week and feeling like every week there is some small flaw in my squat form due to lack of repetition.

The other thing I don't like about Wendler's program is the all-out set. I hate doing high rep sets.

These are just my personal opinions though. Regardless of what I think, the program is supported by quite a few people and Jim has a lot of training knowledge to share.