Science and reason is all we have to work with. I don't believe people boast about science being on their side. Science doesn't choose sides. It simply finds what is true and what is false.
-
Hello, this board in now turned off and no new posting.
Please REGISTER at Anabolic Steroid Forums, and become a member of our NEW community!
-
Check Out IronMag Labs® KSM-66 Max - Recovery and Anabolic Growth Complex
Stephen Hawking: There is no heaven; it's a fairy story
- Thread starter Arnold
- Start date
Science and reason is all we have to work with. I don't believe people boast about science being on their side. Science doesn't choose sides. It simply finds what is true and what is false.
Stephen stated that when we die synapse stop firing and we loss consciousness forever and that is why there is no "heaven" in terms of the joyous place spoken about in Christianity.
I don't understand how your point refers to my quote. I agree that after we die we will return to exactly the same state of consciouness that we were in before we were born which is nothing. However, the energy which makes up the atomic structure of our bodies will transform for an eternity. That's as close to an eternal life as we are ever going to get, IMHO.
to me it sounded like he was just trying to squash the notion of "heaven or hell" in the sense of the human spirit being in conscious state where one could actually interact at this new level of being.
the physics law regarding the conservation of energy states that it can neither be created or destroyed it can only change forms. based on that I think he was implying that our energy "spirit" may go somewhere else but not in any capacity were consciousness or any state of being is involved.
That's something I think about often however we need to be realistic and realise that we, along with all lifeforms have evolved from single celled organisms therefore we need to ask ourselves at what point exactly did we have souls inserted into us along the evolutionary chain.
If we have spirits/souls then you'd assume that single celled organisms also have souls.
The more I think about it, the more it scrambles my brain.
Last edited:
that or at least all lifeforms with higher levels of intelligence that are aware of their existence, take the canine for example. they feel many of the same emotions as we do, joy, sadness, anticipation, etc. and are definitely aware of their environment. I have a 3.5 year old porti and let me tell you he manipulates me to get things he wants and desires. all dog owners see this more or less depending on the intelligence of the breed. and anyone that with 2 dogs that has had one of them die 1 has seen the other dog mourn the loss of the other. I find it difficult to believe that somehow we do not come from and return to the same place. a place nothing at all like the stores told by Judea-Christianity, etc.
I agree with the self loathing mexican. However, there are no scientific data reports to substantiate this. But its a solid opinion.
Look at your jail statistics. The amount of atheists in U.S. prisons compared to the atheists on your streets. I'll have a search and see if I can find them. The results are interesting.
History proves that good people will murder in the name of their God and are only too keen to do so. In the bible it was Abraham who took a knife to his own son's throat in order to prove his love to God. If that were me, I would have told God to go fuck himself.
History proves that good people will murder in the name of their God and are only too keen to do so. In the bible it was Abraham who took a knife to his own son's throat in order to prove his love to God. If that were me, I would have told God to go fuck himself.
Most religions say not to think, not to question but to believe or as they say have FAITH. That is the problem. That is why i like science If we didn't ask why how we would still be in stone age.
religion is good force when done correctly but it often confuses ethics with true morality. Secular humanism is why slavery is frowned upon, all religious texts condone slavery, in essence, slavery is not ethically inconsistent with all the religious texts, including the new testament. Secular humanism is why women can be individuals instead of property, which we pretty much were in almost all the religious books. When an athiest kills, there is no defensible reason why. Richard the Lion heart, muslim terrorists etc.kill innocents but feel that ethically they have been justified.
Jesus taught true kindness , not just empty charity, to the social outcasts, prostitutes, disabled and poor. The supposed christians in the south spew so much venom and spittle of hatred against blacks, immigrants, the poor, the addicts, prostitutes and gays and the disabled.. The very people Jesus would embrace. I don't see the athiests down here with such spittle dripping from their mouths. Probably because salvation in christianity is belief and indoctrination unlike the jews and buddists who believe actions, not belief , is what defines you in god's eyes.
Last edited:
Stalin wished to remove religion as did Mao. This was to remove all other ideologies other than communism. In a way you can say the implementation of communism in China and Russia were the usurping of the former ancient ideologies, religion, for the new ideology, communism. Same principles of rule over masses. Just a different ideology.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 14,833
- Reaction score
- 1,676
- Points
- 113
- Age
- 43
- Location
- In my imagination.
This! Ruthless dictators use their own brand of fear based ideologies to suppress competing ideologies. Nationalism, communism, socialism, ect, they all become a form of instituted religion. The only real difference is they don't go to Sunday School.
Stalin, Pot, and Mao didn't commit horrible atrocities because of their lack of belief in God. They did so because they were evil and power hungry. They needed a tool to keep control and order while they did what they wanted, and Communism fit nicely with their leadership style.
Chubby
Elite Member
"When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land." 
~ Denmond Tutu
Last edited:
They do and you'll see it every time the debate comes up. Regardless, my point was that it's poor reasoning to make that argument. It hinges on emotion and even the presupposition that killing in the name of religion is evil. It's also for the same reasons I stated one cannot kill in the name of atheism that it's ridiculous to make the comparison. If there is a reason to kill someone, it's beliefs not lack of beliefs. I've never killed anyone due to my lack of belief in werewolves. There are however a great deal of well educated muslims who belief in jihad. It's only a logical extension of that belief that they kill in the name of it. You need to show that the core belief is wrong, not the consequences. It makes much more sense to show that a belief isn't true than to show it is evil. When you try to argue something is evil you've opened up a giant can of worms by then having to prove your morality. So to say religion is bad because many people have died in the name of it is probably fine for an atheist dinner party but to make that assertion in a stricter philosophical sense requires more evidence.
Last edited:
Someone tip that motherfucking crippled douchebag over in his chair.
whoops...sorry Stephen Buzzkill.
whoops...sorry Stephen Buzzkill.
* this is what I found from most articles talking about this subject. the data was collected in 1997.
The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category:
Response Number %
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009% ---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)
Unknown/No Answer 18381 ---------------------------- Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.
Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody) ---------------------------- Total In Prisons 96968
not a single quaker, yeah quakers, surprised to see bahai ( though small) , they are like the quakers in their creed.
I think allot of this has to do with people saying they are religious but not following the book - obviously. In my case, I was 'told' I was Catholic, but never went to church or followed anything in particular. I just try to be a good person. Years back, if I was incarcerated, I would have said I was catholic - don't know why, I guess it was because I was told I was.
Parents bring their children up in church every sunday into their teens, but many turn sour and get into trouble - they were brought up a certain denomination or religion, but they strayed. If asked, what religion they are, ofcourse they will say whatever they were brought up with. Most people are not incarcerated of a crime they commited from religious motivations, so the numbers don't mean a whole lot of anything imo. Still, interesting to see those numbers - I would have thought athiesm would have been on the rise.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 14,833
- Reaction score
- 1,676
- Points
- 113
- Age
- 43
- Location
- In my imagination.
I remember reading stuff years ago that stated Christianity is on the decline globally which only makes sense, it has been the natural cycle of religion since man has walked the earth. they all come and go over time. I don't have a link to the text but I'm pretty sure recent polls in the US show people moving from believing in the Judeo-Christian "God" to simply a higher power.
I was raised Protestant, after confirmation I got my DL and my parents gave me the choice to continue to go to church or not, I choose going to Time Out (arcade) at the mall on Sunday..
lol
You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You have just bastardized modern physics so much that is almost making me angry. I only have a 4yr in physics but I can promise you special relativity and quantum do NOT say anything like that.
You are a very convincing person. You remind me of people that seem very intelligent but when it comes to reality they are a danger to be around in any lab settings.
All you guys need to worship me. I am a kind GOD. I'm not dualistic.
There is no way to tell who is devote or sincere in their beliefs. You might subscribe to a faith but still be a total heathen. A catholic pedophile priest for example.
Then you have the atheist scientist who inevitably benefits mankind because of his research.
Subscribing to a faith means nothing and doesnt speak to what is trully in the heart of the individual.
you physicists are much smarter than us lab jockey analytical chemists ( that is my degree) , perhaps i am bastardizing special relativity but why dont you correct me? I have no ego, but i remember being taught as you approach the speed of light time dilation approaches infinity, in fact if you are the light, there is no time. if our last dying memories are traveling at the speed of light in the form of light waves........?. no one has ever approached this subject, except a neurophysiologist at EMory who talked about these convulsions of light waves seen at death he talks about the neurophoton conscious theory, something I notice these neurophysiologists like to play around with.
Last edited:
you are the genius. not me.
its mainly your last statement that bothered me.
It's not about being smarter. It's about having an understanding of what is actually happening.
Your right, if I wanna argue then I have to say otherwise. I will try but I don't understand much when it comes to metaphysics and you are very elegant with words. Even if I could say 100% that you are wrong you could convince people otherwise.
You can't really understand quantum until you know the "why" behind it. Trying to claim a fact about something from theory doesn't work. Way more to it than that.
anyway, Einstein didn't come up with relativity
I always thought that was a cool fact.
Last edited:
you are the genius. not me.
its mainly your last statement that bothered me.
It's not about being smarter. It's about having an understanding of what is actually happening.
Your right, if I wanna argue then I have to say otherwise. I will try but I don't understand much when it comes to metaphysics and you are very elegant with words. Even if I could say 100% that you are wrong you could convince people otherwise.
You can't really understand quantum until you know the "why" behind it. Trying to claim a fact about something from theory doesn't work. Way more to it than that.
anyway, Einstein didn't come up with relativity
Honestly, I had quantum chemistry shoved down my throat, hours and hours of multivariable calculus equations that made no sense literally, only mathmatically. and I don't ever pretend to understand quantum physics completely , even my brother , the princetonian physicist says he can never understand it. ( and he is way way smarter than me). However, I sense your frustation because I hate it when people bastardize the second law of thermodynamics...
