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Pope Urges Compassion, Then Denounces Abortion

Standard Donkey said:
long story short, women want to be able to whore around as much as they want without repercussions..if they get pregnant, they can just kill their babies..ahhh utopia :daydream:
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like i said... you want to punish woman for having sex. pregnancies aren't occurring from lesbian encounters and last i knew it takes a man to do his part. he is also equally responsible in preventing pregnancy. and guess what political party opposes access to birth control?
 
[h=2]Popes sexually active, or accused of being sexually active, during pontificate[/h]
  • Pope Sergius III (904?911) was accused by his opponents of being the illegitimate father of Pope John XI by Marozia.[SUP][23][/SUP] These accusations are found in Liutprand of Cremona's Antapodosis,[SUP][24][/SUP] as well as the Liber Pontificalis.[SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP][SUP][27][/SUP] The accusations are disputed by another early source, the annalist Flodoard (c. 894?966): John XI was brother of Alberic II, the latter being the offspring of Marozia and her husband Alberic I, so John too may have been the son of Marozia and Alberic I. Bertrand Fauvarque emphasizes that the contemporary sources backing up this parenthood are dubious, Liutprand being "prone to exaggeration" while other mentions of this fatherhood appear in satires written by supporters of late Pope Formosus.[SUP][28][/SUP]
  • Pope John X (914?928) had romantic affairs with both Theodora and her daughter Marozia, according to Liutprand of Cremona in his Antapodosis:[SUP][29][/SUP][SUP][30][/SUP](See also Saeculum obscurum)
  • Pope John XII (955?963) was accused by his adversaries of adultery and incest.[SUP][31][/SUP][SUP][32][/SUP] The monk Benedict of Soracte noted in his volume XXXVII that he "liked to have a collection of women". According to Liutprand of Cremona in his Antapodosis,[SUP][24][/SUP] "they testified about his adultery, which they did not see with their own eyes, but nonetheless knew with certainty: he had fornicated with the widow of Rainier, with Stephana his father's concubine, with the widow Anna, and with his own niece, and he made the sacred palace into a whorehouse." According to E. R. Chamberlin, John XII was "a Christian Caligula whose crimes were rendered particularly horrific by the office he held".[SUP][33][/SUP] Some sources report that he was rumoured to have died 8 days after being stricken by paralysis while in the act of adultery,[SUP][31][/SUP] others that he was killed by the jealous husband while in the act of committing adultery.[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP][SUP][36][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP] (See also Saeculum obscurum)
  • Pope Benedict IX (1032? became pope in 1044, again in 1045 and finally 1047?1048).[SUP][38][/SUP] He was accused by Bishop Benno of Piacenza of "many vile adulteries."[SUP][39][/SUP][SUP][40][/SUP] Pope Victor III referred in his third book of Dialogues to "his rapes... and other unspeakable acts."[SUP][41][/SUP] His life prompted Saint Peter Damian to write an extended treatise against illicit sex in general, and homosexuality in particular. In his Liber Gomorrhianus, Damian accused Benedict IX of routine sodomy and bestiality and sponsoring orgies.[SUP][42][/SUP] In May 1045, Benedict IX resigned his office to pursue marriage.[SUP][43][/SUP]
  • Pope Alexander VI (1492?1503) had a long affair with Vannozza dei Cattanei before his papacy, and by her had his illegitimate children Cesare and Lucrezia. A later mistress, Giulia Farnese, was the sister of Alessandro Farnese, who later became Pope Paul III. Alexander fathered at least seven, and possibly as many as ten illegitimate children.[SUP][44][/SUP]
[h=3]Popes accused of having male lovers during pontificate[/h]
  • Pope Paul II (1464?1471) is popularly thought to have died due to indigestion arising from eating melon in excess,[SUP][45][/SUP][SUP][46][/SUP] though a rumour was spread by his detractors that he died while engaging in sodomy.[SUP][47][/SUP]
  • Pope Sixtus IV (1471?1484) was alleged to have awarded gifts and benefices to court favourites in return for sexual favours. Giovanni Sclafenato was created a cardinal by Sixtus for "ingenuousness, loyalty,...and his other gifts of soul and body", according to the papal epitaph on his tomb.[SUP][48][/SUP][SUP][49][/SUP]
  • Pope Leo X (1513?1521) was allegedly a practising homosexual, according to some modern and contemporary sources (Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giovio). He was alleged to have had a particular (albeit one-sided) infatuation for Marcantonio Flaminio.[SUP][50][/SUP]
  • Pope Julius III (1550?1555) was alleged to have had a long affair with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte. The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared the pope's bed.[SUP][51][/SUP]
 
[h=2]Popes sexually active before receiving Holy Orders[/h]
[h=2]Popes who were, or may have been, sexually active after receiving Holy Orders[/h]
  • Pope Julius II (1503?1513) had three illegitimate daughters, one of whom was Felice della Rovere (born in 1483, twenty years before his election).[SUP][19][/SUP] The schismatic Conciliabulum of Pisa, which sought to depose him in 1511, accused him of being a "sodomite covered with shameful ulcers." [SUP][20][/SUP]
  • Pope Paul III (1534?1549) who, according to some sources, held off ordination in order to continue his promiscuous lifestyle, fathering four illegitimate children (three sons and one daughter) by his mistress Silvia Ruffini. He broke his relations with her ca. 1513. There is no evidence of sexual activity during his papacy. He made his illegitimate son Pier Luigi Farnese the first Duke of Parma.[SUP][21][/SUP][SUP][22][/SUP]
 
Little Wing said:
like i said... you want to punish woman for having sex. pregnancies aren't occurring from lesbian encounters and last i knew it takes a man to do his part. he is also equally responsible in preventing pregnancy. and guess what political party opposes access to birth control?
Click to expand...

neither political party opposes birth control. there are individuals who oppose birth control who have voted for either party. as an example there are plenty of catholics who have voted democrat. You need to back your hatred off the republican party just a bit here LW. I'm not saying they are great, they aren't, they have plenty of problems, but your hatred for individuals within the Republican party is a bit overboard considering the equally ridiculous record of the democrats on the other side.
 
no party opposes birth control.. the right opposes subsidizing whores :coffee: why should I have to pay for their condoms/birth control/abortions etc.? no party is against sex.. obvious strawman is obvious, and yes, men have just as much responsibility to support their children and account for their actions as the women do... but as well all know "MUH BODY MUH CHOICE!"...I know a few men who were very excited fathers-to-be who's women chose to exercise their barbaric "right"..which brings me to my next point (which you also underlined in your post about women "desperate to get rid of their children", including one who claimed she would have "given her daughter to a serial killer").. women are just terrible creatures in general :coffee:
 
Pope Innocent III: Article

He held orthodox views on sex and original sin: "Who can be unaware that marital intercourse can never take place without lascivious ardour, without the filth of lust whereby the seed conceived is sullied and corrupted". He also held orthodox views on abortion, though these views would now be regarded with horror. Innocent stated that a monk who had persuaded his mistress to have an abortion was not guilty of murder as long as the foetus had not yet been animated. (Animation took place 40 days after conception for a boy, 80 for a girl). Roman Canon law maintained the distinction between a fetus animatus and a fetus inanimatus until 1869 when it was suddenly abandoned. We do not hear much about it nowadays.
 
LW, this thread is about the current Pope. Not alleged things done by past popes. this new guy in my mind is the most Christian Pope i've seen in my lifetime. If you've got something against the current pope then bring it up
 
Standard Donkey said:
no party opposes birth control.. the right opposes subsidizing whores :coffee: why should I have to pay for their condoms/birth control/abortions etc.? no party is against sex.. obvious strawman is obvious, and yes, men have just as much responsibility to support their children and account for their actions as the women do... but as well all know "MUH BODY MUH CHOICE!"...I know a few men who were very excited fathers-to-be who's women chose to exercise their barbaric "right"..which brings me to my next point (which you also underlined in your post about women "desperate to get rid of their children", including one who claimed she would have "given her daughter to a serial killer").. women are just terrible creatures in general :coffee:
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i really don't think you're qualified to speak on this issue. sex is a normal, natural human behavior not some religious abominable affront to god and decency.
 
Little Wing said:
legally if someone murders a pregnant woman they are also charged with the death of the unborn baby. Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Well yeah, you kill the host...

Little Wing said:
and for the record, one of the reasons i so stand by a woman's right to do it is that to many people in the USA a poor unwanted child is just a commodity or a burden. we have people saying now they aren't even worthy of them sharing their crumbs with.

and oh look who's looking for kids to adopt

Inside America's underground network for adopted children where the unwanted as young as 10 months old are advertised online and placed with strangers by parents desperate to get rid of them | Mail Online

Reuters analyzed 5,029 posts on one Yahoo group page over five years.
One adoptive mother's post from March 2012 for her 12-year-old daughter reads: 'I would have given her away to a serial killer, I was so desperate.'
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I'm all about equal rights for all, cause if you take away a womans basic right to choose, next they're taking away something from me and all you proponents too.
 
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bio-chem said:
LW, this thread is about the current Pope. Not alleged things done by past popes. this new guy in my mind is the most Christian Pope i've seen in my lifetime. If you've got something against the current pope then bring it up
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a pope is just a man in a whacky outfit that still has a cock just like every other man. i'm sure their secrets are just better kept nowadays.

they should do as Jesus commanded and sell their shit to help the poor. Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Matthew 19:21
 
Standard Donkey said:
fixed :coffee: also slippery slope
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Oh!

Not a slippery slope at all. It is if you let these guys talk you into it, though.

It's just another god damn wedge issue that's not going to change 1 iota either way, no matter what anybody says.
 
This pope is getting a lot of people to listen to him that never paid no mind before. Here's to hoping he makes the best of it.
 
Little Wing said:
a pope is just a man in a whacky outfit that still has a cock just like every other man. i'm sure their secrets are just better kept nowadays.

they should do as Jesus commanded and sell their shit to help the poor. Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Matthew 19:21
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well unless you have some sort of proof of their secrets currently, talking about shit that happened 1000 years ago doesn't really do anything for this thread.

While i'm hesitant to jump into a full throated defense of this pope the truth is the catholic church and the catholic people have done quite a bit in the way of humanitarian effort so quoting mathew against them seems kinda odd unless you are prepared to lead by example......
 
bio-chem said:
What if he was? Big deal. What does that have to do with this thread?
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conservatives need to get down off their prudish backwards high horse about sex. you can't close down valuable resources for sexual education, std testing etc because of religion and it's bs that that has nothing to do with it. i understand some tax payers do not want their taxes going for certain things. well that is just too fucking bad. many don't want theirs going for the permawar machine but they just have to embrace the suck and pay em.
 
Little Wing said:
conservatives need to get down off their prudish backwards high horse about sex. you can't close down valuable resources for sexual education, std testing etc because of religion and it's bs that that has nothing to do with it. i understand some tax payers do not want their taxes going for certain things. well that is just too fucking bad. many don't want theirs going for the permawar machine but they just have to embrace the suck and pay em.
Click to expand...

Personally I think a lot of programs should be cut off from government and if people feel they are that important they should donate to those causes they think are important personally? Tell me, Have you donated to Planned Parenthood personally, or are you just happy to vote to raise my taxes so my money goes there? I have every right to vote to tell my government I don't want my money going somewhere, and anyone who wants to vote to spend my money.....well that's just too fucking bad. It's easy to vote and spend someone else's money with taxes, but the people I respect are the ones who actually put their money where their mouth is. By the way, that's way more likely to be a conservative than a liberal LW. FYI
 
actually the poor and liberals donate more than the wealthy, both monetarily and in time. we also are far more likely to raise our voices for those less fortunate than us and are less likely to exploit our fellow humans.
 
i think if people could decide where their taxes went it'd be great. we should be able to. war would lose out and schools would win. we'd all be better off.
 
and as to the thread... i thought the theme was hypocrisy.
 
bio-chem said:
LW, this thread is about the current Pope. Not alleged things done by past popes. this new guy in my mind is the most Christian Pope i've seen in my lifetime. If you've got something against the current pope then bring it up
Click to expand...

c'mon, you gotta admit, this is interesting and relevant

Pope Innocent stated that a monk who had persuaded his mistress to have an abortion was not guilty of murder as long as the foetus had not yet been animated. (Animation took place 40 days after conception for a boy, 80 for a girl). Roman Canon law maintained the distinction between a fetus animatus and a fetus inanimatus until 1869 when it was suddenly abandoned. We do not hear much about it nowadays.
 
I personally feel its not just the womans right it should be the mans right as well. Both parties should be legally consulted, if the woman doesn't want the child she should sign rights over to the father, the father should then pay a fee similar to what surrogate mothers earn for carrying the child. After the child is born they should both be sterilized for having the intelligence to use protection which was probably available for 25cents at the bar they met in or for a couple of dollars at 7-11. Guaranteed lazy fuks will start wearing condoms
 
i think the puritanical sex is bad way of thinking is to blame for a lot of abortions. it prevents common sense talks between parents and kids. my kids have been in monogamous long term relationships with their partners and we've had no vd or pregnancy in the picture. i think open, honest, non judgmental communication has led to two people who will never be involved in an abortion.
 
Little Wing said:
actually the poor and liberals donate more than the wealthy, both monetarily and in time. we also are far more likely to raise our voices for those less fortunate than us and are less likely to exploit our fellow humans.
Click to expand...

you may want to check your sources on that. the poor do, and it's the poor conservatives who are donating both time and money.
 
Little Wing said:
c'mon, you gotta admit, this is interesting and relevant

Pope Innocent stated that a monk who had persuaded his mistress to have an abortion was not guilty of murder as long as the foetus had not yet been animated. (Animation took place 40 days after conception for a boy, 80 for a girl). Roman Canon law maintained the distinction between a fetus animatus and a fetus inanimatus until 1869 when it was suddenly abandoned. We do not hear much about it nowadays.
Click to expand...

Not really that interesting. This type of stuff with the Catholic church is well documented and kind of boring. It's a policy that hasn't been talked about in 150 years? the very definition of boring when it comes to comments by the current Pope
 
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