anybody else having an overly thermic experience from high protein intake?

[Determination]

was the subject subtle enough? heh

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody had digestive problems with a high protein diet (let's say 1.5-1.8 per body lb).

Basically, I've been eating that much protein because any less and then I'm having too much trouble getting enough calories from clean carb sources and keeping the portion sizes small at the same time.

When I work, it's not a problem, I need the carbs and I don't keep it as clean (whole wheat bagel for example) because I'm extremely active all day. But during the week I do cardio, and lift weights. My activity levels outside of that are nothing out of the ordinary. So I worry about having 300g+ of carbs on days when I'm not as active (I'm around 160lbs, at 1.5g of protein per body lb, that's 240g of protein. I maintain at around 2800 so that's 34% of my calories from protein, 20% of fats would be 62g, and the remaining 46% from carbs equal to 322g carbs)

My body is simply not digesting that much protein so if I lower the amount of protein I have to increase carbs and fats to make up for it. It's already tough enough getting enough cals of carbs from clean carb sources and keeping portion sizes small...lowering my protein intake would mean I would have to start eating more processed foods...which would be completely counterproductive once I start getting on a caloric deficit again.

I have invested on digestive enzymes (thanks for the suggestion Jodi!) and i was wondering if anybody was having digestive problems with a high protein diet and had used them to see positive results (I bought 180caps from NOW foods). I'm also interested in other strategies that you might have implemented or if you don't have any personal experience and just know something I can try, please let me know.

At first I thought my body needed to adjust but it's been over 2 months now I think, and it hasn't gotten any better. I've heard of protein farts, but this is ridiculous. I'm burning inside. And just in case, I drink at least 3 gallons of water per day and get tons of fiber in my diet. Sorry for the long post.

 

[Premo55]

I don't get your question at all.

Peace.

 

[Determination]

Basically, I'm asking if anybody's had negative digestive experiences with high protein intakes and what they did to fix it...I hope I properly explained why decreasing protein intake for me was a problem. And if anybody had tried digestive enzymes and had positive results when concerning this.

 

[Akateros]

I do. And yes, I have.

As for getting enough calories from clean carb sources, really? Oats (steelcut not flakes); beans (which of course have their own thermic problems); other whole grains -- those pile up the calories pretty quickly.

Digestive enzymes help me a bit, but aren't a cure-all. You might want to see if particular kinds of protein are more a culprit than others. (Try eating just one kind of protein -- eggs, chicken, whatever -- in a day to see.) For me, bison (of which unfortunately I am very fond) is the worst; I wanna kick myself out to sleep on the couch on nights after I've been eating bison!

 

[Determination]

oh I can get the calories, but then portion sizes are too big

oats are not a problem...but I'm not going to eat oats all day. It got to a point where I was eating it 3 times a day.

Kidney beans are 110 cals per 1/2 cup only have 20g carbs. When combined with greens and a lean protein, the bean portion's almost too big to tell you the truth (kidney beans are big)

Even 2 cups of lentil soup only has 46g of carbs. I have to add a slice of whole wheat toast just to get enough carbs if I'm going to eliminate starchy carbs from my last meal of the day.

a serving of brown rice only has 32g of carbs.

At 322g of carbs per day, I'm needing 54g carbs per meal. Eliminating carbs from the last one means I need even more from the first 5. I try to pack the carbs early in the morning, I've gone 80g+ for breakfast.

I would have whey all day if it were up to picking the least digestive killer...ha.

Definitely going to start monitoring certain food combos and see what works best in this aspect, though...after those 2 cups of lentil soup with whole wheat bread and 4oz chicken...I'm dying hahaha

 

[Jodi]

Sweet potatoes. 1/2 C at almost 30G carb. I can easily eat 1.5 - 2C. of sweet potatoes mashed up with cinnamin, splenda and vanilla extract. Takes like a dessert to me.

 

[Determination]

yeah but I try to have fibrous veggies with my meals also, not just starchy carbs.

If I were to just have the sweet potato with a lean protein, I'd be fine...but add a serving of greens and the portion size is too big. Cut down on the sweet potato, let's say 6oz, and now I'm only getting 41g carbs...

 

[Jodi]

Why in the world you bother counting veggies? Its really a waste of time to count the carbs from the greens. The only time I'd count veggies is if they were asparagus or eggplant, otherwise I don't even bother and even when I'm in competition dieting I still don't bother counting the veggies.

 

[Determination]

Why in the world you bother counting veggies? Its really a waste of time to count the carbs from the greens. The only time I'd count veggies is if they were asparagus or eggplant, otherwise I don't even bother and even when I'm in competition dieting I still don't bother counting the veggies.

I wasn't

I was simply adding them to the PORTION size. Adding greens to the meal means that I can have as big a portion for starchy carbs, which means less carbs for the meal.

 

[Jodi]

Why are you concerned about the portion sizes? You should be concerned about the macros, not the portions.

 

[Determination]

because as far as I know, to burn fat, you want to keep portion sizes small. One's not supposed to stuff oneself in one sitting. It's supposed to be small enough so that it's digested in 3 hours. Even if the macros are all right, if the portion size is too big, digestion will take too long.

Trust me, I've done the macro's only way I was getting plates STACKED with food. Should I simply not worry about it and just eat ridiculously full plates of food?

If I were to go that rout I could simply have 2 cups of rice with my 4oz of chicken and cup of veggies. That would be a decent plate of food for someone eating 3 times a day...let alone 6.

 

[Determination]

One thing to note is that I am refeeding after a long period of having my calories set too low...so I guess my stomach is still stretching back to normal size. i've been eating big for over a week now, and I'm still getting full after SOME meals...

1 full cup of rice, with 1 cup of veggies and 4oz chicken...that's a packed plate with food...should I just stop caring and eat until my stomach is fine with eating that much again?

 

[Premo55]

I still have no idea what you're talking about.
Why don't you just raise your fats and take your carbs down if you're so concerned? And if you're burning the carbs anyway, why don't you just space them out into more meals instead of stuffing them into three? Also, why can't you eat more meals per day, say 7 or 8, instead of just 6?

If you maintain on those calories, I don't think it really matters what kind of portion size you're dealing with. Also, are you sure that 4 ounces of chicken 6 times a day= 240g protein?

I kinda feel you on the digestion thing though, not just aobut protein but things in general. I bloat with everything I eat, and it gets pretty terrible post-high carb day, hell, it gets bad on high carb day when I have to try and squeeze veggies in with my 2.5xbw carb intake.

Peace.

 

[Jodi]

Portion size doesnt mean jack shit. Its the macros that matter, not the portions.

 

[Determination]

premo is today a low carb day? when did I say I eat 4oz chicken 6 times a day? increasing fats would take the macro% easily past 20%...I'm cool with 25%, anything higher than that and I'm fretting

and right now I'm actually doing my meals for tomorrow and I made my pws smaller, so I can have a meal 1 hour after it and fit 6 meals in besides the pws. I'm going to try eating 8oz of sweet potatoes with chicken and veggies plus a Tblsp of udo's and see how I'm able to bring that down...lol

and I'm still watching portion sizes because if I start stuffing myself then it will make my digestive problems even worse and then my body's not even utilizing what I'm eating, I'm walking around even more bloated and gassy and then who knows if I'll be able to eat 3 hours later...

 

[Determination]

Portion size doesnt mean jack shit. Its the macros that matter, not the portions.

so it doesn't matter if the portion is so big that you're stuffing yourself at each sitting?

That goes against everything that I've read...

 

[Jodi]

How so? If you are within macros then why does it matter?

 

[Determination]

stuffing oneself leads to inefficient digestion which first of all leads to more bloating and gas, but that's another story

inefficient digestion means inefficient distribution of nutrients...if one stuffs oneself, then the food's more than likely going to be turned into fat once all other nutrient pathways are used up. There are only so many as far as I know. If there is an overload, the body will simply not use it and store it as fat.

Thus not boosting metabolism nearly as much, if at all and making you fatter.

This is exactly why we redistribute meals over 5-6 smaller ones throghout the day. Keep nutrient distribution at its optimal rate with a steady flow of nutrients once food is already digested, and boosting our metabolism in the process.

If you were to stuff yourself 6 times a day, you'd only get fatter (and if not, you'd definitely not be losing any weight), even if the macros are on point. I very much doubt you could stuff yourself 6 times in one day in the first place. if you can, then you got problems, lol

Or maybe I just learned completely wrong?

 

[Premo55]

Okay look.
There are guys eating MUCH more than you are on this site right now, there are definitely cats who are 160-170 pounds on this site who are on a bulk and eating 3200+ calories. You don't seem them blowing up and gaining fat on a daily basis. If you can't get 2800 down without fretting, and you MAINTAIN at that weight, I imagine you bulk at 4000. How do you think you're going to manage that?

I think you are way too paranoid about getting fat. You get fat from poor food choices and being inactive. As long as you're training, eating clean and sticking to macro counts that you KNOW you maintain weight at, what are you so worried about? When I'm on a bulk I'm bloated all day, this doesn't mean that I'm getting fat. If you're so worried about it then split your 6 meals into 7 or 8 spread out every 2 hours.

Also, what kind of diet were you previously on?
I'm on a no carb day today...why do you ask?

If you know that you can stomach a certain serving of carbs before adding green veggies, and you know that green veggies have basically no cals in them, what's wrong with ingesting that serving of carbs with the veggies? It makes no sense when you say that 'stuffing yourself' in that sense would make you fat.

Peace.

 

[Determination]

I wasn't saying you necessarily get fat, though if you take it overboard you could gain and extra amount of unwanted fat...in fact this happens all the time as far as I know

but if you're on a caloric deficit to try to lose weight, and you stuff yourself at every meal, you won't lose weight, even if you're doing everything right, including macro's

I'm not talking about bulking here...that's a different animal.

Obviously I'm not overly concerned right now that I'm maintaining, in fact I'm enjoying it (besides the digestive problems of course).

But I'm still keeping mind of portion sizes. Specially because my energy levels have leveled off, and I might be ready to go back on a deficit soon. Plus stuffing myself when I already have digestive problems is completely stupid.

 

[Jodi]

but if you're on a caloric deficit to try to lose weight, and you stuff yourself at every meal, you won't lose weight, even if you're doing everything right, including macro's

WRONG!!!! This is so wrong.

I think you better keep reading more. No offense but you are taking things the wrong way here.

It's all about the macros. As long as you are in a caloric defecit and you stay within macros then, I will say this again, portions don't mean jack shit!!

 

[Determination]

from chris aceto, to tom venuto, to even dude from body from life and you know, the fountain of knowledge that are bodybuilding websites

would all disagree with you

every single thing I've read on the subject speaks of moderate portion sizes when trying to lose weight. So you're going to have to point to me to a book that says you can eat as much as you want per sitting and still lose weight as long as the macro's are right, because everything I've read says exactly the opposite

 

[Jodi]

First of show me where they say that. I want quotes.

If you have 40G of Protein, 60G of carbs and 10G of fat in one meal. So that's 4.5 oz. of chicken, 1 C. Sweet Potato and veggies and maybe a few fish oil caps. Then you have the same 40G P, 60G C & 5 Fat so this meal is 2 scoops of protein, except this meal 2 Scoops of whey and 1 Whole grain bagel. Obviously this 2nd meal is smaller in portion size. But what you are saying is that if I ate the first option for 5 or 6 meals I'm going to get fat because the portion size is bigger?

You are so far off from understanding this if you really think that. The amount of food going into your stomach doesn't matter, its the type of food and its caloric value that matters.

 

[Premo55]

Uh, if you're in a caloric deficit and eating 6 quality meals a day, I don't see why you WOULDN'T lose weight. You seem to be suggesting that everyone should throw calories and macros out the window and just go with how much they 'feel' like eating. Don't feel full or bloated? Then you're on the right track!

Peace.

 

[Determination]

First of show me where they say that. I want quotes..

Damn, it's ALL over the books. The body for life thing is basically centered around portions only, it doesn't even take into account macro nutrients (which is great for beginners, but it's obviously not the best if you want optimal results)

Chris Aceto, you can google it up, it's online

It's all over Tom Venuto's book as well. He specifically says you can do everything right, but if your portion sizes are TOO big you won't get results. Or course that usually means you're eating too many calories, but he also mentions you should never stuff yourself in one sitting.

But what you are saying is that if I ate the first option for 5 or 6 meals I'm going to get fat because the portion size is bigger?

uhh...no

there's a difference between a bigger meal that is still small and a meal that is TOO BIG...one that STUFFS you. How have I not made this distinction clear, I don't know.

You even asked about why the portion sizes matter, I explained it and you had absolutely no reply to it. Now you're asking ME to give you direct quotes.

How about you do something for me and just give me a source, I don't want a quote, just anything anywhere that says you can stuff yourself at every sitting and if the macro's are still right you will still lose weight.

I mean, even if the portion size is already the right size, by eating it too fast you could stuff yourself when you normally wouldn't if you took your time with it.

Do this all the time with every meal, and if you're still losing weight...then I'm a moron

 

[Jodi]

Uh, if you're in a caloric deficit and eating 6 quality meals a day, I don't see why you WOULDN'T lose weight. You seem to be suggesting that everyone should throw calories and macros out the window and just go with how much they 'feel' like eating. Don't feel full or bloated? Then you're on the right track!

Peace.

I don't know about you Premo but I give up. Let him think what he wants.

We have no clue what we are talking about doncha know. That's why we can diet so low in bodyfat to compete or bulk to put on 10lbs of muscle in one bulk season. I must have no clue what I'm talking about

 

[Determination]

first of all I never even hinted at throwing macro's and calories out the window

second, you ask me a question, I answer it, you ignore that answer and then pose a question assuming I said something I never did just to make me look dumb.

Then I ask you one question and you ignore it. Then you ask me for direct quotes to something else I said.

Then you post something that implies I've been trying to say you don't know what you're talking about, when I have done nothing of the sort (in fact I've made it perfectly clear you're very knowledgable in another topic...which means nothing because it's obvious)

I simply asked you for one source that discredits everything that I've read (or misread)...if you want to take that as me saying you don't know anything about bodybuilding, then go ahead

it's time to sleep anyway...I'll keep changing my diet and see how I respond to it. That's what I was going to do in the first place, but I figured I might get a little extra help here. Oh well.

 

[Jodi]

I don't know where you see I was ignoring you. Maybe I missed something but I certainly was never ignoring your comments.

There will be no book saying its ok to stuff yourself because it there isn't one and its not ok to stuff yourself because if you are stuffing yourself then you are out of your marcro intake. This is where you are missing the point and I'm not trying to make you sound or look dumb. You are making this so much more complicated than it is. Its quite simple and I will say it again. If you eat within caloric range it doesn't matter what size the portion is.

We have been trying to help you but again you are taking this too far.

My maintenance is 1700 cals. If I eat 1700 cals in one sitting and I eat nothing else for the rest of the day I am not going to gain weight. The most that will happen is that over time my metabolism will slow down.

 

[Premo55]

Dude,
Just look at the carb cycling diet. People have gotten down to single digit body fat percentages stuffing themselves two to three times a week. Same thing goes for people who go on cyclical keto diets and have overfeeds every 4 or 5 days. How would you explain that? These diets don't go on daily caloric intake, but cumulative weekly ones. I agree that it is generally a very good idea to space all your macros in your caloric allowance evenly throughout the day but to suggest that portion control alone dictates your success in a diet plan is a bit idiotic, don't you think?

Also, Body For Life is retarded. They also suggest that you can have a cheat day where you can eat whatever you want.

Peace.

 

[RoeCyris]

in response to original question (cuz i didn't read the rest of the posts):

Hells yea. I'm not sure if it's the whey or just the fact that I'm getting so much more protien now. I recently realized that before i started using whey in my meals and eating better I wasn't getting even half the protien i needed a day, however my body was use to this, so when I introduced the whey/extra protien in my diet I got the runs real bad (this was earlier this week, hah, ima noob) but it calmed after a few days. My feces stinks to high heaven nowl but at leasts its coming at a regular rate these days.

Was anything I just shared too much?