arnold press

[jmesherghi]

hi i need a rough estimate for this exersise

if i can do 24 kg for 8 reps of normal seated shoulder presses

then how much weight do yout think i can do for 12 reps with the arnold press

 

[roastchicken]

Why don't you try it and find out!

 

[jmesherghi]

lol i no but i just want a rough estimate so i can build on that i wna make sure my routine is near enough spot on when i start

 

[yeksetm]

It all depends on whether you've hit your triceps for 12 sets beforehand! If you haven't then I think 5kg for 12 reps would be a good place to start!

 

[juggernaut]

He wants someone else to do the work for him. Lazy with Down Syndrome.

 

[Gazhole]

Start with something you know for a fact you can do. Increase each set until it feels about right.

Theres not a formula for this sort of thing. I can do 200+ on flat bench, but when i switch to incline i struggle with 150. Switch to dumbell incline and i'm only doing the 50's. Yet with all that i can military about 170 so my shoulders aren't the problem. Go figure.

Just get in there and lift something.

 

[jmesherghi]

juggernaught man uv got some really bad roid rage, comon u knwo that u love me really

nah tricep day is a different day iv decided to head some of your advice, on my back day im going to get rid of the 1 set of lat spade pulldowns and 3 sets of bench dumbell rows, and going to replace them with another 2 sets of barbell bentover rows ( my back day had most isolation exersises)

tuesday: back, deads, shrugs biceps

4 sets of lat pull downs
4sets of Barbell bentover row
2 sets of reverse flys
5 deads
5 shrugs
and okayyyyyyyy guys u win 5 sets of bicep ( still going to train tris on a friday they are a top priority)

2 EZ sets and 3 sets of dumbell preacher curls

do you think it would be better to get rid of the 2 sets of reverse flys and just add another 2 sets of bentover rows its just i though they where a compound move what do you think?

 

[Built]

jmesherghi, is that the order you intend to use for your back workout?

 

[yeksetm]

Why no pull up/chinup for your back day? In my opinion they should be a staple of every workout?!!

Now you've been told this already so I will put it in bold so you don't miss it!

Read the stickies

Cheers

 

[Gazhole]

Deads should be first, always.

 

[jmesherghi]

i can only do like 4 pullups, dunno y im shit at them just i think my body doesnt realy work weel with them,

guess il just scrap the reverse flys and add another 2 sets of bent over rows iv bin training in the 8 rep range for quite a while now, ocasionally going 2 9 reps, do you think

with the bentover rows i shud follow a pyramid sceme do 2 sets at 12 reps, 2 sets at 10 reps and then 1 set at 8 reps and 1 set at 6 reps?

erm i was going to do the back exerises followed by the bicep exersises and then the deads and shrugs

 

[jmesherghi]

erm okay il do the deads first then its just that i read somehwre they shud be last cuz your back primary exersies should be your focus

 

[jmesherghi]

or maybe it will be benificial to miss out that 8th rep and just do 2 6 reps as i have been training at 8 reps for a while?

 

[Gazhole]

Oh and pullups. Do them. I don't care if you're doing sets of 1 for 6 months. They're by far the best back exercise out there and will do more for your biceps than any curl could ever hope to.

Deads should be first simply because you'll be doing more weight on them than any other exercise (i hope), and if your back is pre-fatigued theres more chance of you rounding it and sending vertebrae flying all over the gym.

 

[yeksetm]

4 is a start! Practice practice practice. Do negatives as well! When I started all I could manage was 3, im up to 11 now. As Gaz said do your dead first! Bigger excercise = more demanding on your body.

 

[jmesherghi]

okay il do pullups as many as i can, what do you think about the 8th rep?

iv been training this way for a while now so on compound exercises i plan to follow a pyramid sceme, shud i ignore the 8th rep and try and go for another 10th rep and another 6th rep maybe?

 

[Phineas]

Poor performance on pullups isn't necessarily from not performing them enough. Granted, the best way to improve at pullups is to do them, but there are other factors which will hinder performance:

(1.) The assisting muscles are fatigued due to (too much) isolation training. Remember, in a pullup you're lats are assisted by the biceps and posterior deltoids. Bent-over laterals for the posterior delts aren't very popular but as we all know arm curls are just about all you see from most guys in a gym. Overtrained/fatigued biceps will lead to poor pullup performance.

(2.) Your grip is weak. Pullups require a great deal of grip. Not only are you pulling up your own bodyweight -- which most people can't do, or at least do very poorly -- you're controlling that weight to prevent yourself from swinging around. While it would be your core muscles primarily that keep your torso and hips stabalized in the lift your grip/forearms will surely play a role in that, as well.

(3.) Your core is weak. Many people don't realize but pullups are an excellent core workout. Unless you want to be swinging around the place on the way up on down, your core muscles need to contract isometrically to maintain a steady position as you move up and down the bar. For someone who regularly performs squats, deadlifts, military presses, cleans, rows, or just about any heavy compound lift for that matter with controlled form this shouldn't be an issue. However, those who train heavily with isolation and machine exercises tend to not have the core strength/coordination to properly execute a pullup. It is, believe it or not, a full-body exercise. It's not just "back".

 

[jmesherghi]

true...

but anyone have any ideas on the 8th rep scenario even my favourtie juggernuaght?

 

[Phineas]

true...

but anyone have any ideas on the 8th rep scenario even my favourtie juggernuaght?

So, from my understanding you've been training at sets of 8 and you're worries you'll be shortchanged if you don't train to 8 reps?

How many reps you perform is really meaningless. It all depends on the intensity at which you're lifting (intensity as a measure of relative effort, e.g. 80% of your 1 RM; 3 sets of 10 @ 12 RM, etc), overall volume, rest intervals, tempo, tonneage, etc. It's good to mix up your training intensity, however. Also, you'll probably come to find you get better results with certain lifts at certain intensities. For instance, I prefer to keep my deadlifts at submaximal loads. I'll use deadlift variations for higher-rep accessory work, but the conventional deadlift I reserve for powerlifting.

Also, deadlifts are actually a leg exercise. The primary muscle groups trained are the hamstrings and glutes. The back is worked secondarily. Go ahead and do them on a back day, but always do them first.

 

[jmesherghi]

okay thanks

 

[unclem]

just try 40lb db to start with arnolds and see if u can do them. if u can do 8 then go higher until 6-8 is just hard enough. if its 100 lbs then thats wat u use. u gotta try it yourself.

 

[juggernaut]

To be completely honest with james, do yourself a real favor-and I mean this in all honesty and no bullshit: Your routine is completely ridiculous. You need to begin with heavy compounds, as in squats, deads, bench, military presses, and chins or rows. And do those only for about 10 weeks. Get insanely strong and grow from doing that alone. When I put my clients on weight gain/bulk routine, I keep it simple yet brutally effective. Here's my absolute favorite for getting BIG:

For the first exercise, pick a weight you can do just 10 reps with. go to 20, but take deep breath in between reps.

Session 1:
20 rep squats 1x20
Dumbbell Pullover; 1x12
5 minute rest;
Romanian Deadlifts; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
Weighted Pullups; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
.
Session 2:
20 rep standard deadlift 1x20
Dumbbell Pullover; 1x12
5 minute rest;
Barbell Push Press; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
Hang Cleans;2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
.
Session 3:
20 rep squats 1x20
Dumbbell Pullover; 1x12
5 minute rest;
Incline Bench Press; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
Barbell Rows; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps

I've recommended this to several people and all of them saw success. Gaz put this into my head I just ran with it. He wrote a great article some time back.

 

[juggernaut]

btw-sorry, no arm work. But it wont matter.

 

[jmesherghi]

thanks juggernuaght i do appreciate your help cuz u have still writen and tried to help me even though we had arguments before lol

i have taken aboard your views on isolation exersises being shit ect, but i think a few are helpfull, i personally think i react well to hard intensity training and the way i train i used to train chest twice a week and its my best feature

i have taken aboard you advice and mixed it in with my own ideas on what i think will work with me

(i was training 6 to 8 rep range before) all over exerises not listed rep range will rep between 10 and 12

monday: chest
7 sets of bench press (starting off at 15, 12, 12, 10,10 8,6)
2 sets of incline barbell press(10 to 12 rep)
2 sets of decline
2 sets of flies

tuesday: back, deads, bis
5 deads (10, 10, 8, 6, 6)
as many pullups as i can manage
4 sets of lat pull downs
6 sets of Barbell bentover row starting off at 12 working down to 6 reps)

2 EZ BB curls
2 standing hammer curls
2 preacher curls


wednesday: shoulders
5 sets of arnold seated shoulder presses (12,,10,10,8,6)
3 sets of lat raises
2 sets of front raises
2 bentover lat raises

thursday: legs

8 sets of squats(15,12,12,12,10,10,8,6)
3 sets of hamstring curls machine
1 sets of quad extensions

friday: tris + traps

7 sets of narrow grip BB (starting off at 15, 12,,10,10, 10,8,6,)
2 sets of seated overhead extenions
3 sets of one arm reverse grip pushdowns

5 shrugs

i want to train tris by themselves as i cnt perform good form after chest day

also i want to train traps on this day to as it would take probaly take over an hour on back day is that okay
i feel because i just eat and literally rest on my bed at home all day then this helps the recovery process

probaly gna slaughter me for this routine but hey...

 

[LAM]

never understood the "Arnold" press..supination of the forearm during the movement accomplishes what exactly?

 

[MDR]

never understood the "Arnold" press..supination of the forearm during the movement accomplishes what exactly?

My understanding is that it brings the posterior head of the deltoid into play a bit more-correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Phineas]

My understanding is that it brings the posterior head of the deltoid into play a bit more-correct me if I'm wrong.

That's what was always said about it, but I don't understand how it can. The posterior deltoids assist in pulling the arms inward, not extending outward.

 

[jmesherghi]

i might change that thinking about it i am presuming normal shoulder presses hit the side delt more then the arnyu press which hits the front more and less sides

what do u think of the trap thing?

 

[MDR]

That's what was always said about it, but I don't understand how it can. The posterior deltoids assist in pulling the arms inward, not extending outward.

Yep-I've tried it a few times just for shits and giggles, but I'm far from an expert, as it isn't a staple for me by any means.

 

[LAM]

That's what was always said about it, but I don't understand how it can. The posterior deltoids assist in pulling the arms inward, not extending outward.

exactly....personally think this is another one of those exercises (such as leg lifts/frog kicks, etc. targeting the "lower" abs) where people use localized fatigue to judge the actual mechanics of the exercise..which is wrong