And why is this bullshit?
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Cardio every working out day??
- Thread starter DiGiTaL
- Start date
And why is this bullshit?
Perdido
Elite Member
Check Built's post a few prior to this one. Pretty much sums it up.
Dont see where it sums it up. Come low intensity (morning) cardio will help keep the bodyfat off. And if you keep a calorie surplus you can keep growing.
If you can drop fat and maintain muscle on a diet while doing cardio I dont see why you cant do cardio and gain muscle taking in more food.
What does Bulit suggest - no cardio? And for what reason?
Where did I say not to do any cardio?
And how do you expect low intensity AM cardio to keep bodyfat off if you're eating at a surplus?
Who knows. Its obvious that he's a magazine guy and still doesn't understand the basics though. ....morning cardio,I'm sure he'll say on an empty stomach, is extra special and burns nothing but fat cause the system hasnt had any fuel and blah blah.......Same ol same ol. ....
DISCLAIMER: All posts in this forum assume there are no "extra helping gear" used.
I dont mean to sound stupid Merkaba, but I thought that morning cardio did have some extra effect on fat burn. I mean, I read here not long ago that you have no..glycogen weight and some other stuff weight so you direct the fat.
Ofcourse I disagree on the cardio empty stomach though. Gah I hate my memory I cant even rememebr what I read properly.
Ofcourse I disagree on the cardio empty stomach though. Gah I hate my memory I cant even rememebr what I read properly.
Ah Ok. So no difference at all.
Since we're on the topic, I saw her yesterday. Healthy and fine looking of course. I got pretty occupied with my workout and the gym was super crowded so forgot to approach her. Hopefully tomorrow.
I think she is training for something though, cause I see her do some leg/back exercises that I've never seen before and she is always so focused. Hm..
I don't mean to be a sceptical ass, but I've seen plenty of women doing stuff I've never seen before! Usually out of some mag. I eagerly await her reply though.
Because you can eat more (than i you did no cardio) and stay at the same overall surplus, which can only be good a good thing for muscle building. To get big, you need to eat big and you can use a big of cardio to keep the bodyfat more in check.
If Im wrong, can you explain the reason why? Are you saying diong cardio is pointless for someone trying to gain size?
Generally you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time because you have to have a deficit to lose fat, which means you'll lose some muscle too, and you have to be in a surplus to gain muscle, which means you'll gain some fat too. You can do a net 700 calorie session of whatever you want but if youre eating 700 calories above you maintenance youre just getting a heart workout, mostly.
This is barring:1. Youre a newb or haven't done much working out in a long while. 2. You have a metabolic "issue" 3. You're on gear
I agree that it is very very difficult to lose fat and gain muscle. My point is that in your above example, you are still able to eat 700 calories more food (than if you did no cardio) which means 700 calories of mroe nutrition for your body to process which must put you in a better position, no? IT wont be as simple as the net surplus dictating how much weight you put on.
Interesting question.
In fact, you're right. It won't be as simple as the net surplus dictating how much weight you put on. With this level of endurance activity, your body will tend to become efficient, burning fewer calories over time for the same level of activity. The primary movers will store more triglyceride, in effect "marbling" the meat with fat (Poliquin refers to this as the "Kobe Legs" phenomenon, for example when women don't run a deficit and do lots of spin classes - they tend to get fatter legs from this).
There's also the issue of transitional fibres acting as slow-twitch analogues.
Not my idea of a good time, but you might have different goals.
Well i somewhat agree, and as built said its not as black and white, ultimately, there are a alot of things going on, but you were mentioning getting bigger at the same time, which is a task. "To get big you have to eat big" you say, I agree, but if you cardio to death youre generally negating your "eating big" .
I think some moderate morning cardio (I agree, dont want to be doing cardio to death) will be of benefit over doing no cardio at all. Thats the opinion I was trying to put across. I dont get this opinion from magazines or research etc. Just from personal experience for my body type.
(And I seem to be getting shot down for having an opinion for some reason.)
I couldn't agree more. Nobody loses size because of a 20-minute AM walk. I do these often myself.
It sounded like you were suggesting one could minimize fat gain during a bulk this way. If this wasn't the case, we're all one big happy family.
Group hug!
Well, think about it. This is the internet. If you post without proof your opinion as fact, you better be able to take a bit of heat for it.
If you can offer objective evidence that your opinion leads to success, we'll listen. We all want the same thing here - bigger muscles and less bodyfat. I personally want the easiest way to get there. Don't you?
i understand a bit better now lobo. its not that anyones here to have a go at you, as built said were all here for the same reason. it was just some of the responses you gave when it was pointed out that what you were saying was incorrect, they sort of 'rubbed me the wrong way' if you know what i mean.
just enjoy the site bud, it really is an amazing place to learn.
just enjoy the site bud, it really is an amazing place to learn.
OK, now we are all playing happy families again.
My opinions are based on following advice/plans and then from personal experience. You still say Im incorrect, but Im not convinced that I am.
Im not sure what kind of facts you are looking for from me, and I havent seen any facts to disprove this yet. Bodybuilding is very subjective anyway and many differing opinions are difficult to prove.
I think we should agree to disagree. And I hope the next person gets a more welcoming response to their first post.
My opinions are based on following advice/plans and then from personal experience. You still say Im incorrect, but Im not convinced that I am.
Im not sure what kind of facts you are looking for from me, and I havent seen any facts to disprove this yet. Bodybuilding is very subjective anyway and many differing opinions are difficult to prove.
I think we should agree to disagree. And I hope the next person gets a more welcoming response to their first post.
What you have done in the past has worked - for you.
Lots of methods work. Some work better with less effort and more comfort.
They are? Really?
You think we base our training on our subjective OPINIONS?
I don't. I base mine on the practical application of scientific research.
Don't you?
please make this page one of your favourites lobo, and come back to it in about 3 months time. youll cringe when you read it. once you really get into some of the information (not opinions, facts) youll understand what we mean.
sorry for some of the responses. its just that a lot of people on here are very well educated in terms of muscle building and fat loss, and although they have a differing of opinion on some matters, they follow the same general guidelines. which is why when someone comes here touting one system, and sticks to their guns about that system, certain people (e.g. me<<'asshole' as quotted by premier) take it a bit bad and dont exercise enough patience.
but as i said bud, you will learn, a lot, if you continue to read and be open to changing your views on certains aspects of the process.
sorry for some of the responses. its just that a lot of people on here are very well educated in terms of muscle building and fat loss, and although they have a differing of opinion on some matters, they follow the same general guidelines. which is why when someone comes here touting one system, and sticks to their guns about that system, certain people (e.g. me<<'asshole' as quotted by premier) take it a bit bad and dont exercise enough patience.
but as i said bud, you will learn, a lot, if you continue to read and be open to changing your views on certains aspects of the process.
I would say body building is not too subjective. Theres some simple and some complex science going on. But what is subjective is what some people can get away with.
Exactly, thats the perfect way to put it.
Im sure I follow the same general guidelines as everyone else, we only seem to disagree on this point - is there any benefit on doing cardio when trying to put on muscle mass. In my opinion, yes there is benefit. In your opinion, no there isnt.
Im willing to accept Im wrong - Id be very happy to, but you havent said anything to change my mind.
You mentioned this point above. Is being in a "fuel substrate" and burning fat, not true whether your dieting or bulking no?
Im not trying to be a pain and stick to my guns. Im trying to debate the point and hopefully you can answer my questions and prove your point.
Nobody said a little cardio was anything but beneficial when trying to put on muscle. It's good for circulation, recovery, clearing metabolites from the workout... just don't think it's how you get "lean gains". It doesn't work that way. Fat loss happens with weight loss. Muscle gain happens with weight gain.
Think of it this way - it's like how caffeine enhances alertness. So, if you take caffeine and go to sleep, does it help you remain more alert when you sleep? Kinda not what it does, right?
It might make it easier for you to wake up if you take a caffeine pill before you take a nap, but the caffeine itself won't make your sleep better, and it won't make you a more alert sleeper.
Note that I'm not saying don't take caffeine. Just understand what it will and won't do.
Same with cardio. It won't make you jacked, it won't keep you lean while you bulk, but it does have some benefits, even while bulking, so long as you don't expect it to do something it won't and don't overdo it.
Yes. 500 calories' worth of cardio is a LOT of cardio. It would take me two hours of walking or an hour and a half of jogging to burn off 500 calories. If I did that while weight training to bulk, I'd overtrain.
I don't really have a point to prove. You're the one who said it would work. It's actually up to you to prove it.
That being said, yes, the fuel substrate is fat. You'll burn mostly fat if you do it first thing in the AM. GRAMS of it. Big hairy deal.
A lot of people don't really understand the function of fat cells. We need them, or we'd die. See, blood sugar is toxic. Once you store glycogen, if you don't dispose of glucose somehow, well, that's diabetes. Your body allows you to store this toxic substance as an inert substance for future use: triglyceride, in fat cells. We store and retrieve fat all day. We're supposed to. It's healthy.
You need to maintain a caloric surplus, in addition to a favourable hormonal profile and sufficient anabolic stimulus (read: weight training) in order to pack on mass. 500 calories a day worth of cardio will decrease your testosterone levels. Hardly what I'd suggest as helpful while partitioning, not to mention a bloody waste of my time.
Even if you didn't spew cortisol and lower testosterone doing this much activity, you'd just burn off calories you'd have to eat to replace. You will burn off fat, but once you eat you'll just store the surplus again.
On a cut, you run into DIFFERENT problems with cardio. A little, again, is good for the heart, but too much and your body starts tossing out muscle in an effort to conserve energy. Also not good. And the reason I don't rely on cardio for fat loss when cutting.
Plus I'm way too lazy to work that hard at something that's less effective than simply eating less and lifting heavy. The little bit of cardio I do is either very specific, or recreational. I don't even PRETEND it's for fat loss.
Does this help?
Doing a general search on this finds many discussions mainly on the side of doing cardio while bulking with many people giving personal experience that cardio is of benefit to keep bodyfat in check. In fact, DC style training actually insists on morning cardio on off days for this reason - and thats a pure mass gaining programme.
Have you ever tried bulking while doing cardio?
Have you ever tried bulking while doing cardio?
1. In order to put on mass you must be in a calorie surplus, normally around maint. + 500kcals. I trust that you agree with this point.
2. Cardio burns calories, not fat. This is important, remember this.
Therefore while on a bulk, eating at 500kcals above maint. where do you see the benefit in terms of cardio keeping bodyfat in check? DC training recommends cardio as it helps to increase appetite and therefore help acheive an above maint. caloric total. It has nothing to do with keeping bodyfat in check.
I hope this has finally cleared this up.
I always do a little cardio while bulking. It's good for my heart, good for circulation, increases capilary density and work capacity. Means I can train harder and grow more.
Cardio REALLY increases appetite for me. That's why I do so little.
I thought morning cardio will be tapping into fat.
Incorrect. DC highlights the fact that using carb cutoffs, cardio and even thermogenic supplements will be used to keep body fat in check. Its not to do with appetite.
