Creation vs. Evolution

[OceanDude]

OD,

As a matter of fact you did. There was a touch of arrogance that set me off. Nobody's perfect.

That's an excellent question. The simple answer is that I beleive that freedom is the distance between church and state. And with this past election, I've gotten more interested in issues such as health care, stem cell research, partial birth abortions, capital punishment, and the funding of science and technology. I truly beleive that the future of our economy will depend on some of these issues; especially science and technology. You can see why the 'religious rules' of a political party would be something of interest to me.

Another reason... I sat through 10 years of Caticism (sp?) I am a confirmed catholic. I have seen 10 caticism teachers come and go, as well as several fathers in our community. I haven't found a single person worth looking up to, let alone letting them preach to a community and try to represent some "supreme being". I have trouble listening to preaching There are so many thing that's cannot be expressed that way. There are so many things that people need to go out and understand on their own. And the meaning of an individuals life..... god, that's the most important one IMHO.

As I said, I don't like to hear people preach. I perfer to find things on my own. Who knows, maybe one day I"ll find "god". All I can tell you is that it'll be because I found him on my own, not because some 'born again' crack addict child molestor that got booted from one church and ended up in mine preached to me about 'god'

Don't steal my material dude lmao That's what I was hinting at about you.

There you go with the self idolizing again. By me mentioning my plans, I was hoping to show you that I have good intentions about helping people. ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE, every religion; contarary to how your god is selective. By artificial organs, i'm referring to hearts, livers, and nervous system components. MS is a very serious dissease that is going to effect more and more people in the next couple generations. Both my mother and her sister (my aunt) have MS. I would like to have something to do with the development of treating the dissease, not the symptoms.

I have no intentions of creating 'life' as you are suggesting. again with the self idolizing. lmao Get off of it O' dude.

Is this a metaphor or are you talking about money? Because the conversation is about religion, what are you implying that you are counting on loosing 'it all' too?

These responses sure do contain an awful lot of 'fluff'... May I ask what kind of education you have?

Not really... what is a "everyone body" ? lol Yes buddy, I DO comprehend that your religion helps you to do what is "RIGHT". Now why is it so difficult to 'comprehend' that religion isn't neccessary to know what is right from wrong? (Please note this response when reading the last response about american indians)

I could understand the need for religion is you had to resort to your bible to find detailed answers to your daily problems...

I could understand if god himself told you what you need to do....

But no, in the end, it's you ocean dude. You tell you what to do. You INTERPERIT the bible that you read. The whole book is interperited and translated up the goat ass. It's been through 4 languages, 2 of which are DEAD.

Although i do comprehend what you are saying, your answer really just wasn't sufficient

Concern for muah? You compared me to Charles Manson. Was he Captured because somebody was concerned about him. More Fluff dude.

Wow, what is so wildly different about me?

Please allow me to quote you from 4 paragraphs up...

"I don't really need to understand why someone does not worshiping God. That is their problem - frankly I could care less. There are plenty of people who do not."

Which is it Mr. John Kerry. Are there many like me, or am I wildy different?

Once again, people are different. I for example view you as the type that is sniffling and crying out for attention Something else both of us might need to work on.

You're starting to look weak here. When somebody strings together a 36 words sentance full of sloppy grammar just to tack on a corny insult.....

But once again, I view the bapitist born-again christian preacher types as the ones with the ego issues. So it's a matter of perspective.

BUT, there is a difference.-

• You are preaching.
• I am informing that people don't have to listen. I am not telling people what to do. I am simply telling them that they can decide on their own.

You are still preaching. Please explain how my position makes me look like more of an ego-maniac than you?

Wow, you didn't answer my question at ALL... no suprise there. Ask your father next time you go to church. Why do indians not beleive in your god.

BUT, you made a TERRIFIC POINT!

"Much of what they believe (not that I am well versed mind you) seems to be amazingly consistent with universal principals of good and evil and a greater Creator"

You are admitting that although they don't beleive in the same god as you... they make the same decisions.

Now explain to me again why I am 'wildly different'?

BTW, i am enjoying this Ocean dude. If I offend you please PM me and I'll gladly edit my post to your liking.

Sorry I just can't continue with you Luke. You are way too defensive to permit any kind of meaningful dialog. I am basically just making light idle conversation here and you are all posturing and debating and getting defensive. I tossed out a few funny comments to lighten things up and to spark some ideas and you took them as attacks. I did not compare you to Charles Manson - your insecurities did. You need to be able to differentiate between personal attacks and general comments and conceptual talking points: Here are examples of direct personal attacks:
OD - this is all fluff.
OD - That's a run on sentence
OD - What kind of education do you have? (btw: 3 advanced college degrees)
OD - I think you are arrogant.

Did I do that to you in any of our discourse? I don't think so. The single thing I will say now though is you need to work on your maturity, your insecurity and your intolerance of the things that you see in others and must also hate in yourself before you go on to bigger things. Sorry. And please don't deep analyze peoples simple comments (e.g. about "not gambling"). There was no hidden message there at all. The only thing I am implying is I don't believe or rely on luck since that implies some kind of destiny. I believe that we make our own destines through our choices and being open to respond to opportunities that come up through everyday events and though the relationships we make. Pity we could not have gotten further along in that regard.

Good "Luck" on your adventure to explore artificial organs.

OD

 

[Luke9583]

Wow, what a horrible way to step out. And I thought we were having an intelligent debate here.

I was seriously looking forward to hearing your responses to my questions.

Pity we could not have gotten further along in that regard.

Your choice

Now that you have made your intentions clear on this you might check into that system and not trouble yourself to replicate the hard work of others. You might also make yourself familiar with the works of Charles Manson

My insecurities? I think you just resort to lies when you can't think of fluff to say.

Insecure?

1. Monitarily incesecure? -I"ve accepted the fact that i'm a poor college student
2. Spiritually? - I'm secure enough to admit I go it 'alone'
3. sexually?- j/k
4. emotionally secure? - I've got a big fuq'n smile on my face

I think your argument for withdrawl is suspect OD! I think you are just afraid of being checkmated or 'intellectually bitchslapped' by a young punk.

Thank you again though for outlining the areas you feel I need to work on. If you'd like I'd be happy to PM you with a summary of the areas I think you need to work on.

Either way... Take care.

 

[King Silverback]

Liberals will eventually probably try to sue God for not creating all things "equal" in the universe.

I believe in Creation all the way!!!

 

[ZECH]

DG

I know NIV is translated from the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic languages too. I think NASB is too, but I would have to check.
KJV is hard for me to read with all of the old english.

I don't think they leave anything out. If you think so, give me an example so I can see.

I have a book at home, I don't even rember the name of. It list many examples of passages with deleted references and words changed. When I get home tonight I will post some examples and the name of the book in case you want to look it up.

 

[milliman]

I have a book at home, I don't even rember the name of. It list many examples of passages with deleted references and words changed. When I get home tonight I will post some examples and the name of the book in case you want to look it up.

DG,
That would be great. To my knowledge, the only differences are the use of words. No changes in the actual meaning of what was written.

some examples
Charity was used in many places in the KJV version, now they use the word love. Charity back then meant love of your neighbor, but today it seems to have the meaning of an actual organization.

Thee thou thine

propitiation

justification

 

[milliman]

OD,

Sorry to change the subject, but that $9,800 Dodge Viper you found for Rocky seemed like a great deal. Power, handling and all.
Had it been wrecked ?

Seems low for a Viper.

 

[Luke9583]

That's how much a Viper Motor goes for

 

[OceanDude]

OD,

Sorry to change the subject, but that $9,800 Dodge Viper you found for Rocky seemed like a great deal. Power, handling and all.
Had it been wrecked ?

Seems low for a Viper.

No this was a super good deal. Not sure what is going on but it also only has 15,000 miles!! One of those too good to seem true deals. The online link should have a way to order a complete car history which will show any legal evidence of reported insurance claims. Of course if the owner was a slick auto/body mechanic he could have picked it up wrecked and renovated himself, run back the odometer and sold it as a "cherry" car with no adverse public records. I am tempted to get it myself - hell of a car V10!!! It would not be hard to get an expert to examine it for evidence of renovation/wreck etc.


OD

 

[milliman]

I would volunteer to test drive it for you.
I have a blue BMW Z3 M roadster, James Bond style.
I would compare them for you.

I try the Viper, you get to try the Beemer . . .
I sure we will both be grinning from ear to ear.

Deal ?

 

[maniclion]

I would volunteer to test drive it for you.
I have a blue BMW Z3 M roadster, James Bond style.
I would compare them for you.

I try the Viper, you get to try the Beemer . . .
I sure we will both be grinning from ear to ear.

Deal ?

Wear pants, cause if you wear shorts and you forget to lift your legs over the side when you get out you'll scorch your calfs on the exhaust that runs on the side under the doors. And don't drive it on leg day the clutch is workout in itself as is getting in and out. (I speak from experience)

 

[OceanDude]

I am extremely happy with my porshe cayenne. So the viper would just be a weekend car for cruising down the beach strip area and catching some rays with the top off and out rumbling all the harley bad boys at the stop lights lol. Think I will pass on that deal but thanks we need you here getting creation all sorted out.
OD

 

[milliman]

Wear pants, cause if you wear shorts and you forget to lift your legs over the side when you get out you'll scorch your calfs on the exhaust that runs on the side under the doors. And don't drive it on leg day the clutch is workout in itself as is getting in and out. (I speak from experience)

That had to be fund experience.
Need a lot of clutch to handle those ponies.
Does this substitute for a leg day ?

Nice avatar. I have posted some of those red x's.

 

[milliman]

Think I will pass on that deal but thanks we need you here getting creation all sorted out.
OD

 

[cman]

What is the possibility of both? 7 days to God may be several thousands of years for us. Who's to say that it wasn't both? That's what I believe.

The sun rose and set each day so gen was 6 24 hr days but in the new testament there is a place that says when the 6 days started the earth was already old.

Jer 4:23 mentions life before Adam and Eve that was destroid.

also told Adam and Eve to REplenish the Earth. not plenish.

There is a lot more if interested.
I have done a 6 month study on pre Adamite earthlings and it is pretty interesting to me.
any way thats my Two cents,
If you want more and can keep it civilized I will share more.

I don't have thin skin, hope you don't either.

 

[milliman]

I have heard that some groups like the thought of a "pre-adamic" race to try merge evolution into the Bible. I would like to see what you have on it.

Questions in bold.

The sun rose and set each day so gen was 6 24 hr days but in the new testament there is a place that says when the 6 days started the earth was already old.

Please reference verse

Jer 4:23 mentions life before Adam and Eve that was destroid.

It says earth was formless & empty, no light in heavens.

also told Adam and Eve to REplenish the Earth. not plenish.

What verse ?

There is a lot more if interested.
I have done a 6 month study on pre Adamite earthlings and it is pretty interesting to me. any way thats my Two cents,
If you want more and can keep it civilized I will share more.

I am civilized, I think

I don't have thin skin, hope you don't either.

I have a thick skull though

 

[OceanDude]

The sun rose and set each day so gen was 6 24 hr days but in the new testament there is a place that says when the 6 days started the earth was already old.

Jer 4:23 mentions life before Adam and Eve that was destroid.

also told Adam and Eve to REplenish the Earth. not plenish.

There is a lot more if interested.
I have done a 6 month study on pre Adamite earthlings and it is pretty interesting to me.
any way thats my Two cents,
If you want more and can keep it civilized I will share more.

I don't have thin skin, hope you don't either.

This time and the time BEFORE is of interest to me also. There seem to be not so subtle hints in the ancient Jewish literature (a portion of the bible) that talk of angelic beings, giants and the like wandering the earth. There is a bit of reference to some of what was happening in heaven as well. If you go back to the Jewish manuscripts we have all manner of legend and accounts of great calamities in the heavens and what sounds like the earth being spun on its axis. I think it possible that some of the original Greek and other mythology has some legacy extending from a common history (The Book of Giants Roman/Greeks) that we can see in this period (Nimrod, Golem, the Nephilim,descendants of Anak, Shemhazai, Armaros ,Barakel, Kawkabel,Ezekeel, Arakiel, Samsaweel, Seriel).

In fact there is a great bit of scholarly work that suggests that not only was Genesis not specifying 6-24 hr days but rather entire ages AS WELL AS STRONGLY pointing to the very real possibility that this was in fact the 2nd or later creation. There is evidence and interpretation that the earth was barren from a devastating consequence of sin and spiritual warfare and God had reordered all things in heaven and on earth as a result of a terrible revolt (check out http://www.piney.com/BibGen13ch3.html for some interesting insight).

Extremely interesting stuff,
OD

 

[Luke9583]

I am extremely happy with my porshe cayenne. OD

I didn't know you were a car dude? That changes everything... Are you a member of rennlist? Let me know if you'd be interested in a 944 turbo with 370 rwhp

 

[ZECH]

DG,
That would be great. To my knowledge, the only differences are the use of words. No changes in the actual meaning of what was written.

some examples
Charity was used in many places in the KJV version, now they use the word love. Charity back then meant love of your neighbor, but today it seems to have the meaning of an actual organization.

Thee thou thine

propitiation

justification

The name of the book is "The King James Only Controversy" by James R. White.(Bethany House Publishers) Copyright 1995


Examples:
KJV: Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.

NIV: Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Notice how the word Blood was completely left out!



John 6:47
KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

NASB: Truly, Truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.


Acts 22:16
KJV: arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

NASB: Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

"His name" could be anyone, even the devil.




1Timothy 6:10
KJV: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

NASB: For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.

NIV: For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


Philippians 4:13
KJV: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
NASB: I can do all things through Him who strengtheneth me.

Again "him" could be anyone.

There are hundreds of examples in the book.

 

[milliman]

Thanks DG,

This is interesting. I am going to go check it out.

The name of the book is "The King James Only Controversy" by James R. White.(Bethany House Publishers) Copyright 1995


Examples:
KJV: Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.

NIV: Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Notice how the word Blood was completely left out!

Col 1:14 is referenced in my study Bible.
It says that a few of the late manuscripts have this in it.
The earlier ones did not.



John 6:47
KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

NASB: Truly, Truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.


Acts 22:16
KJV: arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

NASB: Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

"His name" could be anyone, even the devil.

My understanding is that any time they capitalize the first letter in
Him, His etcetera, it is referring to God.
Not a nominal reference to just anyone.


1Timothy 6:10
KJV: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

NASB: For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.

NIV: For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

This looks like a translational difference.
Just slightly different words that mean the same thing.


Philippians 4:13
KJV: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
NASB: I can do all things through Him who strengtheneth me.

Again "him" could be anyone.

There are hundreds of examples in the book.

See above regarding capitalized first letter referring to God

 

[perfectbody]

God-related religions will disappear soon.

 

[OceanDude]

The name of the book is "The King James Only Controversy" by James R. White.(Bethany House Publishers) Copyright 1995


Examples:
KJV: Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.

NIV: Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Notice how the word Blood was completely left out!



John 6:47
KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

NASB: Truly, Truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.


Acts 22:16
KJV: arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

NASB: Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

"His name" could be anyone, even the devil.




1Timothy 6:10
KJV: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

NASB: For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.

NIV: For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


Philippians 4:13
KJV: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
NASB: I can do all things through Him who strengtheneth me.

Again "him" could be anyone.

There are hundreds of examples in the book.

No disrespect here but the difference in these translations is so trivial there is pragmatically no relevance to the differences. The only time one gets into slight trouble with minor translation differences is when you get into very deep theological analysis and try to deduce or extrapolate histories or issues of the peoples and societal interactions and greater things. That is a job best left to the relatively few experts on the planet.

OD

 

[busyLivin]

God-related religions will disappear soon.

over 80% of the world believes in a God.

soon? Don't bet the house on that one!

 

[ZECH]

I don't believe the wording is trivial. Young christians have a hard time following what is meant. When you change the wording, you also change meaning. I have had preachers read from different bibles than mine(KJV) and you literally cannnot keep up and get lost where they are reading from. You change one word this 100 years in a translation and a word the next 100 years in a translation and soon it is not even what you started with. Haven't you ever played the game where you whisper a story in one person's ear and then he whispers to another and so on. If you go through 10 people, the 10th person's story is totally different than what you first said.

 

[OceanDude]

I don't believe the wording is trivial. Young christians have a hard time following what is meant. When you change the wording, you also change meaning. I have had preachers read from different bibles than mine(KJV) and you literally cannnot keep up and get lost where they are reading from. You change one word this 100 years in a translation and a word the next 100 years in a translation and soon it is not even what you started with. Haven't you ever played the game where you whisper a story in one person's ear and then he whispers to another and so on. If you go through 10 people, the 10th person's story is totally different than what you first said.

I am respectfully going to disagree. In particular the KJV is full of antiquated English expressions (no one talks in terms of they, thine, thou except for a limited time when they did composed that translation and then only the nobles). Most young people are clueless about the most basic concept being conveyed in KJV without sitting through a lot of study classes simply for lack of familiar English expressive constructs. The imagery and conceptual concepts in the bible can be challenging enough without having to jump through syntax and lexiconical constructs. I think it just fine to use translations that use very straightforward everyday English (but will not support the forms that no go into full up street slang) to get people started. The greater detail can then be worked through for the studiously inclined with the help of study guides and academic work. The original manuscripts are always available as a check and balance if we see wild deviations in the hundreds of years of translations on translations. King James had no monopoly on spiritual insight or in linguistic perfection. I personally like the New American Bible translation since it is very conventional modern English and has extensive foot notes to identify slight differences of opinion among scholars about the translations as well as linkage to other parts of scripture that show consistency and reinforce the interpretation. In this manner the reader has a full record and visibility of what the alternative views are. Pragmatically I have never seen any major disputes between the slight variations in interpretation since the concepts are what are more important.

Thou dost fathom and prehendere that which I have thus spoken to thee and taken it onto thine self to be as a salve meant as it was thus spoken for purpose of a soothing ponderment and less an occasion for scornful disregard to thine own mind???s familiarities?

Peace Bro,
OD

 

[ZECH]

Thou shalt speaketh thoust own opinions providing thou art capable of being nonbiased. Thoust own knowledge foretold is exceeding thy own. We shalt agree in faith to disagree with thy brother

 

[Crono1000]

can't we all just agree that I'm the coolest mofo in the world? Huh? Right? Ok, settled then

 

[Luke9583]

can't we all just agree that I'm the coolest mofo in the world? Huh? Right? Ok, settled then

cooler than GOD?

 

[milliman]

God-related religions will disappear soon.

Good Quotes:

God is dead !
. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


Nietzsche is dead !
. -- God

 

[Luke9583]

Nietzsche wrote lots of great stuff on women in 'human all to human'

 

[maniclion]

http://www.thebricktestament.com/

This is my favorite Bible, illustrated with Lego's