Cutting for the Six Pack

[gopro]

So did I.

Big deal.

Okay, my starting weight was 8 lbs 3 ounces, but still???

Seriously, how old were you when you started, and how old are you now? You competed at what, 220 lbs - you started at 100 lbs at what age?

I started at 17 and I am 40 now. Starting weight was a not all that lean 125 lbs. In the offseason I have been as high as 273 lbs, but now do not pass 245 lbs because I need to remain leaner.

This is why I said 245, although at one point I had gained 148 lbs over my starting weight.

 

[Built]

That's cool - you're natty now. You're just not lifelong natty.

No biggie.

 

[Built]

How tall are you, gopro?

 

[Just_Moe]

I spent 1987 to 2003 having used only basic supps...then in 2003, while working for VPX I tried two of their PH's for 2 weeks each (total of 4). Both times I gained 5 lbs and then lost 7 after coming off. Thus..I was left 4 lbs lighter after this experiment. Since then I again have only been on basic supps.

So, I am guilty of 4 weeks out of 22 years of using gray market products, which I went backwards on. I have stated this publicly several times.

clen?

Everything! For awhile all they knew about was andro (which is now class III), but some real geniuses in the industry tipped them off to all of the "good stuff." Yeah, it looks like all of it will soon be history. (Hope I can get as much of the PHs as I did of clen, LOL).

because you can get lean with Clen--so the clen with the PH which you hoped to stock pile was only 2 weeks--err, sorry 4 weeks worth?

I am not trying to discredit you at all--I have no bias against assistance from any ergogenesis nor should anyone else in this industry. I am just trying to see the basis for your foundation of the argument.

 

[juggernaut]

Please tell me what compounds they were...I could always use a couple extra pounds. Sounds interesting. MDrol has been good to me...of course thats a totally different story.

 

[gopro]

That's cool - you're natty now. You're just not lifelong natty.

No biggie.

Oh please...4 weeks out of 22 years? Yeah, I would consider myself lifetime natty since none of those weeks contributed even an ounce to my body. I would look exactly the same...and perhaps .0001% better now if I did not use PH's for 4 weeks.

 

[gopro]

clen?

No, no clen. It was two PH's which were legal and sold OTC at the time.

 

[gopro]

Please tell me what compounds they were...I could always use a couple extra pounds. Sounds interesting. MDrol has been good to me...of course thats a totally different story.

They do not exist any more and the weight I gained was simply water, which is why is was gone within a week.

 

[gopro]

clen?


because you can get lean with Clen--so the clen with the PH which you hoped to stock pile was only 2 weeks--err, sorry 4 weeks worth?

I am not trying to discredit you at all--I have no bias against assistance from any ergogenesis nor should anyone else in this industry. I am just trying to see the basis for your foundation of the argument.

I did not "stockpile" anything? How do you stockpile clen? Clen has nevr been legal. I was only testing the PH's for the company I worked for, but after this had to use my training partner as the guinea pig because he did not care what he took.

 

[Just_Moe]

No, no clen. It was two PH's which were legal and sold OTC at the time.

so you stock piled the clen but did not try it, ok fair enough! Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate the time you took in answering.

 

[gopro]

I did not "stockpile" anything? How do you stockpile clen? Clen has nevr been legal. I was only testing the PH's for the company I worked for, but after this had to use my training partner as the guinea pig because he did not care what he took.

Oh I see your game. Do not refer to anything I said while back with VPX b/c I was hired to be a "salesman." When I got sick of doing that I left them in 2005 precisely because of this.

 

[juggernaut]

Clen has nevr been legal.

Anavar isnt legal...winstrol isnt legal...interesting view.
Interesting how these chems can land into the hands of a nineteen year old kid-but you cant get it because its illegal.

 

[gopro]

so you stock piled the clen but did not try it, ok fair enough! Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate the time you took in answering.

Oh, you mean clenbutrx (I thought you meant clenbuterol)? That was an OTC legal supplement that natural organizations had not banned at the time. I DID stockpile that and sold all of it off and made a small fortune.

 

[Just_Moe]

gopro asked "How do you stockpile clen?"
I would don't as I don't need to be shredded for my career or my sport. However I would guess you could keep it in jars or in the original packaging--perhaps Tupperware out of the kids and pets reach if you had to.

 

[gopro]

Anavar isnt legal...winstrol isnt legal...interesting view.
Interesting how these chems can land into the hands of a nineteen year old kid-but you cant get it because its illegal.

I do not give a crap what others take that is illegal...if I DID I would not coach competitors that take drugs. I just know that I myself do not take anything illegal and now I have to piss in a cup randomly to prove it!!! Which is 100% cool by me!

Oh, I am 5'11" Built

 

[Arnold]

Anavar isnt legal...winstrol isnt legal...interesting view.
Interesting how these chems can land into the hands of a nineteen year old kid-but you cant get it because its illegal.

some people choose not to break laws, steroids are very attainable but illegal, which prevents many from using them, so instead they go for the legal "steroids", i.e. pro-hormones.

 

[Just_Moe]

Oh I see your game. Do not refer to anything I said while back with VPX b/c I was hired to be a "salesman." When I got sick of doing that I left them in 2005 precisely because of this.

you cannot see my game! Unless you already own my e-book.

 

[gopro]

gopro asked "How do you stockpile clen?"
I would don't as I don't need to be shredded for my career or my sport. However I would guess you could keep it in jars or in the original packaging--perhaps Tupperware out of the kids and pets reach if you had to.

Again, I thought when you said clen you meant clenbuterol...did not realize you meant VPX's clenbutrx. I took a few cases with me when it was banned and I sold it off in maybe 3 days. That stuff was like gold to people.

 

[gopro]

you cannot see my game! Unless you already own my e-book.

I don't, but you don't own mine either so we are even

 

[Arnold]

gopro asked "How do you stockpile clen?"
I would don't as I don't need to be shredded for my career or my sport. However I would guess you could keep it in jars or in the original packaging--perhaps Tupperware out of the kids and pets reach if you had to.

but there is no point to stock pile Clen, we all stock piled pro-hormones prior to 2004 because we knew they were about to be classified as Schedule III drugs, Clen is not a Schedule III drug and I highly doubt it ever will be, to this day Clen it VERY easy to get and virtually risk free as a "research chemical": www.cemproducts.com

 

[Built]

Oh please...4 weeks out of 22 years? Yeah, I would consider myself lifetime natty since none of those weeks contributed even an ounce to my body. I would look exactly the same...and perhaps .0001% better now if I did not use PH's for 4 weeks.

Now listen - my personal feeling about the whole "natty" thing is "who cares", but really, saying you used but are lifelong natty is like saying you've never smoked a joint - but you smoked a few in college.

You're clean now.

Now, the legal thing. If someone uses test while living in Mexico, is he natty? Test is legal there.

 

[Just_Moe]

Now listen - my personal feeling about the whole "natty" thing is "who cares", but really, saying you used but are lifelong natty is like saying you've never smoked a joint - but you smoked a few in college.

You're clean now.

Now, the legal thing. If someone uses test while living in Mexico, is he natty? Test is legal there.

I was going to ask if I am from Bulgaria and take ergogenic aids--am I still natty? What if I fall down in the woods?

 

[gopro]

Now listen - my personal feeling about the whole "natty" thing is "who cares", but really, saying you used but are lifelong natty is like saying you've never smoked a joint - but you smoked a few in college.

You're clean now.

Now, the legal thing. If someone uses test while living in Mexico, is he natty? Test is legal there.

Ok, you are right...because of those 4 weeks I am not "lifelong natty." However, I will state that the physique I have achieved today had ZERO to do with those 4 weeks...that is what is important. Had I been on for several full cycles and done PCT to preserve gains, then I could not say that.


Oh, and about the whole natural "thing," I care very much.

 

[Arnold]

Now, the legal thing. If someone uses test while living in Mexico, is he natty? Test is legal there.

that all depends on the criteria you're using for being "natural", if the criteria simply using what is legal or is it using anything "unnatural" or "man made".

 

[Just_Moe]

also just to pick at a scab--for 4 weeks total you took gray area. If I did not diet and train for 4 weeks there would be a measurable level of difference, right?
visa vi? That is the difference in our minds as "life long" or not. We are just finicky people I guess.

 

[Hench]

Now listen - my personal feeling about the whole "natty" thing is "who cares", but really, saying you used but are lifelong natty is like saying you've never smoked a joint - but you smoked a few in college.

You're clean now.

Now, the legal thing. If someone uses test while living in Mexico, is he natty? Test is legal there.

Youre associating natural with legal.

I though natural meant steriod free. Doesnt matter whether they're legal or illegal, you still know what steriods are.

 

[Just_Moe]

that all depends on the criteria you're using for being "natural", if the criteria simply using what is legal or is it using anything "unnatural" or "man made".

I AM man made.

 

[Arnold]

I could say that someone using 1-Andro keeps them natural because 1-Andro converts to 1-testosterone which is a natural hormone in the body, whereas a compound like 1-Nor Andro would put them in the unnatural category because it converts to nandralone which is not a natural male hormone in the body, its synthetic and would not normally exist.

 

[Just_Moe]

Youre associating natural with legal.

I though natural meant steriod free. Doesnt matter whether they're legal or illegal, you still know what steriods are.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/anabolic-zone/98864-lifetime-natural-not.html


Good question!

 

[Built]

Ok, you are right...because of those 4 weeks I am not "lifelong natty." However, I will state that the physique I have achieved today had ZERO to do with those 4 weeks...that is what is important. Had I been on for several full cycles and done PCT to preserve gains, then I could not say that.

I'm sorry Eric, and this must be hard for you because it matters to you, but you can't say that now. You've used steroids. I've seen the pathways.

Hey - I use 'em too. It's okay. We're still good people.

We're just not natural. I could go off and I'd still never be natural again.

Oh, and about the whole natural "thing," I care very much.

I did too, while I was. It was really interesting to push my body as far as I could naturally - and I did okay, I'm really pleased.

Now I'm enjoying this next step, too.