Do people bother with legal diet pills?

[MrKeenan]

This is for my girlfriend. She's got this idea that diet pills such as lipo 6 will work wonders as she has been advised by someone who owns a supplement business selling this stuff, therefore job is to up sell any product and make her believe it will work to make her come back. Other than maybe suppressing appetite slightly, and maybe giving a little placebo effect that gives her extra motivation in the gym to think that they're actually working, do you think they can work?

Even though I know just a fair amount at the moment would you recommend maybe an ECA/EC stack?. She has been training for almost 2 years, hit a plateau at her current weight now. I've also done some research on clen which I heard was great for women off heavyiron. As well as the obvious fat loss benefits it has it would have respiratory benefits as she has asthma which I'm lead to believe clen was first developed to treat?

 

[Imortalee]

Change her diet, assess her cals in vs cals out. Change that and she should lose. Adding ec stack is always fun though. In my opinion of you were going to try clen with her. Try ec first (just my two cents, may be wrong though)

 

[GreatWhiteTruth]

Of course nothing is going to work like good ol Clen, ECA stack, T3 etc...

However, the only OTC supplement that ever seemed to help me was actually oxy-elite. It made me sweat all day, and I lost a reasonable amount of bodyfat with it.

If you have access to the aforementioned I would always choose those over oxy elite or anything OTC. Go with clen or a traditional ECA stack and you'll be g2g.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

This is for my girlfriend. She's got this idea that diet pills such as lipo 6 will work wonders as she has been advised by someone who owns a supplement business selling this stuff, therefore job is to up sell any product and make her believe it will work to make her come back. Other than maybe suppressing appetite slightly, and maybe giving a little placebo effect that gives her extra motivation in the gym to think that they're actually working, do you think they can work?

Caffeine The Foundation of Fat/Weight Loss Supplements

The foundation of just about every fat/weight loss suppolement is caffeine.

Caffeine works. Caffeine is CHEAP.

Supplement Company Profit

The problem is there is NO high profit margins in caffeine. Thus, they come up with Lipo 6, Oxy-Elite, etc.

That allows the supplment company to jack up thier profits at your expense.

Mainlining Caffeine

The beauty of caffeine is that it is also street legal and everyone sells it.

You can even mainline caffeine with "McCaffeine" at McDonald's!

Effectiveness

Research indicates that ingesting caffeine or other over the counter products does elevete you metabolism.

80 Kcal A Day

The research indicates that caffeine and other weight loss products elevate your metabolism by burning about an additional 80 calories a day.

Slow But Adds Up

That means that in a 30 day period, you end up burning about 2/3 lbs of fat or about 8 lbs of fat in a year.

Oxy-Elite

This is a supplement (GreatWhite likes) that is just another one that contains caffeine.

Take Home Message

The take home message is just buy caffeine tablets, powder or have a cup of coffee. It cheaper and will delivers the same results.

Even though I know just a fair amount at the moment would you recommend maybe an ECA/EC stack?.

ECA

Larry Hobbs (Bariatric Researcher) stated this combination is one of the best over the counter and "behind the counter" that he's seen.

From a personal perspective, I AGREE.

2 + 2 = 5

ECA is the equivalent of the sum being greater than it's parts.

With that said, it helps with weight loss but it no miracle drug. However, this is one combination that I really love.

She has been training for almost 2 years, hit a plateau at her current weight now. I've also done some research on clen which I heard was great for women off heavyiron. As well as the obvious fat loss benefits it has it would have respiratory benefits as she has asthma which I'm lead to believe clen was first developed to treat?

Albuterol Profile

Clen is a cousin of ephedrine and albuterol. I never got much out of clen but I did have some nice results with albuterol.

However, ephedrine is much easier to get you hands on.

Imortalee

Most likely the key to breaking her plateau is her diet, as Imortalee stated.

Diet is 80% of the game.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[fatsopower]

don't feel very smart sticking my nose in after that very thorough and informative post - just would like to add from personal experience that if she decides not to go with a cutting stack, an otc "fat-burner" taken about 15-20 minutes before training, can help you kick it up a few notches in the gym. (my personal favorites are OEP or VPX Clenbutrx) - but as KC pointed out, a triple shot espresso will probably have the same effect!
Just my 2c fwiw

 

[~RaZr~]

VPX Redline and Clenbutrx liquids are some damn good stuff. Anything that may contain DMAA or 1,3 dimethylamylamine is good as well. Evaluation of her diet and workout routine is a must before she starts to supplement.

Lipo-6X is good, but I couldn't handle the "pepper burps" that came along with downing 3 caps at a time.

 

[ArmyofOne]

On the note of Lipo-6 and OXY Elite, "Razr" is right about the burps with Lipo lol. i personally perfer the OXY, But non are a magic fat burner.

 

[~RaZr~]

Yea, that shit was horrible. I'd either get those or I could literally smell pepper or caffeine all the time.

DIY stacks are tried an true. Good thing about them is that you can tweak the dosage as you go

RC's products like clen or T3 are hit-or-miss. Trying to explain this would take up to much space, but it is safe to say that one has to read reviews and put their trust into a company, in hopes of getting good products to use on "rats"

 

[MrKeenan]

Her workouts spot on and all her macro's are pretty much in place. She eats 5 meals a day, her base rate is 1703kcal, 21g carbs, 34g protein, 13g fat per meal. Would anyone recommend lowering the calories even further?

 

[fufu]

Caffeine is good for cutting, as long as your diet is in order.

Appetite suppressant + extra calories burned every day = easier cut

I'm very sensitive to caffeine, so x2 100 mgs per day really sapped my hunger.

That being said, I haven't taken a caffeine supplement in several years because I don't like the way it makes me feel.

Like Kenny said, just buy straight caffeine tablets, cheap and effective.

 

[~RaZr~]

Fufu got them "sensitive receptors"

Mine are shot

 

[MuscleGauge1]

Of course "people" do. But here at ironmagazineforums.com we are ALIENS and CYBORBS. WE KNOW BETTER THAN PEOPLE!

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Her workouts spot on and all her macro's are pretty much in place. She eats 5 meals a day, her base rate is 1703kcal, 21g carbs, 34g protein, 13g fat per meal. Would anyone recommend lowering the calories even further?

As Einstein Said

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

What that means...

Since her diet and exercise plan isn't working, you need to change something.

Lowering Calories

Initially that will work. However, one of the problems is that in doing so, your metabolism decreases. You body learns to burn less calories/fat.

Options

1) Rotating Calories. Increasing them for a few days then dropping them down.

2) Pulse Feeding. Going from 5 meals/snacks a day to 3 meals a day.

3) Carbohydrate Cycling. Increasing them and then cutting them back.

Her Carb Intake

If she is consuming 21 gram of carbs for 5 meals/snacks, that equates to 105 grams of carbohydrates a day.

One of the problems with long cycles of low carbohydrate diets is that they negatively affect your metabolism and also tend to restrict testosterone production.

Tom Venuto does an nice job of explaining some of this in...

Is it True There’s No Such Thing As An “Essential Carbohydrate?”

The General Adaptation Syndorme

This is the foundation of making progress. Bascially, it states that the body will adapt.

Once adaptation takes place, no progress takes place.

Thus, what needs to occur for one to make progress with diet, exercise, pretty much everything...is that you need to change things up.

Plateaus

What a plateau tells you is that the body has reached homeostasis, adapted to it's enviroment (diet, exercise, etc).

The Solution

To get things moving again, you need to change something.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Merkaba]

As Einstein Said

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

What that means...

Since her diet and exercise plan isn't working, you need to change something.

Lowering Calories

Initially that will work. However, one of the problems is that in doing so, your metabolism decreases. You body learns to burn less calories/fat.

Options

1) Rotating Calories. Increasing them for a few days then dropping them down.

2) Pulse Feeding. Going from 5 meals/snacks a day to 3 meals a day.

3) Carbohydrate Cycling. Increasing them and then cutting them back.

Her Carb Intake

If she is consuming 21 gram of carbs for 5 meals/snacks, that equates to 105 grams of carbohydrates a day.

One of the problems with long cycles of low carbohydrate diets is that they negatively affect your metabolism and also tend to restrict testosterone production.

Tom Venuto does an nice job of explaining some of this in...

Is it True There???s No Such Thing As An ???Essential Carbohydrate????

The General Adaptation Syndorme

This is the foundation of making progress. Bascially, it states that the body will adapt.

Once adaptation takes place, no progress takes place.

Thus, what needs to occur for one to make progress with diet, exercise, pretty much everything...is that you need to change things up.

Plateaus

What a plateau tells you is that the body has reached homeostasis, adapted to it's enviroment (diet, exercise, etc).

The Solution

To get things moving again, you need to change something.

Kenny Croxdale

Yea we get alot of those posts..." my diet is great, what's wrong" Well, something is probably wrong.

I say post up the diet, or get her in here to do it. And Kenny sums up my response to alot of people when they say "I eat clean,...what's the problem?" I say you might be eating too clean. Meaning you might need to up your intake, calories, even fats and or carbs more often, depending on her previous intake and workout protocol, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Powermaster]

Great post Kenny. Sums everything up perfectly.

 

[mth496]

I rather just a good diet and exercise to loose fat. But clen/t3 help great. As for legal product i do not waiste my time with diet products or even prohormones.

 

[sassy69]

Her workouts spot on and all her macro's are pretty much in place. She eats 5 meals a day, her base rate is 1703kcal, 21g carbs, 34g protein, 13g fat per meal. Would anyone recommend lowering the calories even further?

If she's been following that diet for a long time & stalled, time to tweak the diet. The OTC thermos, clen, etc. are only going to work to supplement a working diet & training.

What are her stats? I can't comment on the appropriateness of the diet w/o knowing where she is at.

RE: the diet itself - probably time to do some sort of carb cycling or something to alter it if her body has adapted to it. I'm not a big fan of perpetually lowering calories because it just means you're going to eventually starve a body. It runs optimally when you give it exactly what it needs to run. I'd rather see some cycling w/in the macros or throw in some refeeds.

 

[MrKeenan]

If she's been following that diet for a long time & stalled, time to tweak the diet. The OTC thermos, clen, etc. are only going to work to supplement a working diet & training.

What are her stats? I can't comment on the appropriateness of the diet w/o knowing where she is at.

RE: the diet itself - probably time to do some sort of carb cycling or something to alter it if her body has adapted to it. I'm not a big fan of perpetually lowering calories because it just means you're going to eventually starve a body. It runs optimally when you give it exactly what it needs to run. I'd rather see some cycling w/in the macros or throw in some refeeds.

I thought that as she had been stuck there for a while now. She knew her calories then but often went under her base rate thinking the lower and lower calories went the more fat would burn. I advised her to 5 meals a day whereas previously she had around 3 actual meals, with no post workout meal, and she would count something like a yoghurt as a meal. I've worked out her nutrients now of which she splits them into them 5 meals so hopefully this will do the trick with her plateau. I was just wondering about these supplements whether to bother.

In terms of stats she is 5'6, 146lbs, 2 years training.

 

[squigader]

It's been said already.

While the OTC stuff will give a nice placebo effect and increase energy/decrease appetite, an ECA stack will do so much more.

Of first importance would be diet - recalculate the calories she needs and set up a proper diet. Look for an "intermittent fasting" program (Like leangains) to help with the dieting aspect, they really help control hunger and drop fat.

 

[sassy69]

Thermos help something like 3% increase in fat burning, clen maybe 10% increase. But like I said, if your diet & training aren't optimized, throwing more shit into the mix to try to force something that isn't working already, is not going to make up for the non-optimal diet & training. In my competition prep when I've had my diet, training & cardio fully optimized and regularly updated, the thermos help in giving a kick for morning cardio or getting the kick for training after a day of work. Maybe helps bump up my energy a little bit - but not really more than a couple cups of coffee would do. Too much thermo and it becomes a ride on the edge of the line between fat burning & shit sleep quality.

The reason I bring up the diet is it might be time for a big fat fuckin refeed if she's been following exactly the same macros & calories for a while. There are many dimensions you can tweak a diet in.

I don't think thermos are a bad thing to try. Its a bit of work to find a product that works w/ your own body chemistry - some buzz too hard, some you can't take on any empty stomach, etc.

 

[Gibson23]

oxy