Few questions about my cutting cycle. Please help.

[fox2630]

Hey there everyone! I've been bulking up the lazy way (stuffing my face with everything) for some time now and I've decided it's time to cut down. I have a few questions I need cleared up if you would be so kind to help answer.

I'm 5'7 almost 21 years old at about 30-32% bodyfat weighing 220-225 lbs. My diet has consisted of about 2 or 3 big meals followed by some junk food and about an average of 6 cans of soda a day. My weight seems to stay roughly the same and even though I am somewhat of a lard bucket, I've gained several pounds of muscle and mass that I wish to keep. My goal is to cut all my fat and keep all of my mass. The only problem I have now is the way in which I will get there.

I'm willing and capable to do double to triple cardio (normal paced jogging about 30-45 min each session) each day once my body gets used to the running again. If I do triple cardio, which would roughly equate in about 10500 calories (or 3 pounds a week), and I'm eating my calorie maintenance level despite it having loads of sugar, HFCS, etc., will I lose weight or will this bad eating prevent me from it?

The reason I ask is because I don't want to cut too much out of my diet (like 6 cans of soda a day which is roughly 6000-7000 calories a week) as well as add double cardio (roughly another 6000-7000 caloris a week) and lose too much weight since some of it might be mass. Not only that but I would like to avoid eating too healthy for now since its kinda hard to determine my calorie maintenance level and eat all that whole wheat and turkey just to keep the pounds.

My second and final question to you is: if I can't proceed keeping my eating habits and doing triple cardio, how should I proceed doing this? Any advice?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to read this. I greatly appreciate it and any help you can share with me. THANKS!

 

[Built]

Please read homework 1 in my sig. Triple cardio won't do nearly as much for you as cleaning up your diet.

 

[sassy69]

What Built said. You're doing a lot of extra work to accommodate a shitty diet. That's just too much work, and frankly I think its going to stress your body out because its all just too much. The best way to produce results is to work w/ your body and feeding it just enough of what it needs to produce the results you want. I suspect you can make some amazing progress just by cleaning out your diet.

And speaking from experience, double cardio is hard enough - both time-wise & energy-wise. If you want to keep building some muscle, I assume you're going to want to spend some time in the gym. You want to spend 3 hrs / day on a treadmill too? I bet you start having hip & ankle problems. Just not the best use of your time & resources.

DIET will always be your starting point.

 

[fox2630]

Thank you kindly for your responses. I appreciate the advice and tips, and am well aware that it's a fools errand to attack weight loss without changing a horrible diet; however, my question still stands. Will I lose weight keeping my eating habit (or diet, if you will) assuming it is my calorie maintenance level, while doing triple cardio each day?

To respond to the joint and hip point, I use to be able to run for miles. After getting really comfortable with 45 min jogs, I would never feel any joint pain whatsoever. Especially not like when I do squats. As soon as my body readjusts to running, I don't think joint pain will be an issue/ That being said, I will continue to work out my upper body seeing as I will need my legs for the cardio.

As for time and convenience, I would gladly give up 3 hours a day to continue my junk diet. All I want to know is will fat loss work because of the cardio or are the ingredients of the contents of that which I eat preventing me in some way of losing fat only?

Thanks again for the advice and responses, I look forward to some more. And I apologize if I've broken any rules.

 

[sassy69]

I don't have any good response for you because your logic is screwed up. I can tell you that 3 x 1 hr/ day repeated every day will take its toll.

I can't help you. I don't know what sort of result you're going to get if you continue to eat shit and then try to do a lot of cardio. I think all the shit you're eating is also stressing your system as well as adding a lot of wasted calories. Its even possible for all the shit you're eating, that you're starving nutritionally speaking.

Is that shitty diet that important to you? I don't get it and I think you have your priorities screwed up.

Good luck to you. Why don't you do an experiment and see what happens if you stay w/ the shitty diet and do 3 hrs of cardio / day for a month. Keep a log here.

I can show you evidence of a competition prep I did several years ago where I was doing exactly the same thing every day in terms of the amount of diet & training, including 2 hrs of cardio / day. I was following a carb cycle w/ cals around 1750, but then I threw in what I thought at the time was the ultimate cheat food - fat free, suger-free whipped cream. It stalled my fat loss to stand still. Based on 9 pt skinfold caliper measures, I recorded a decent 1-1.5 % bodyfat loss consistently for 6 weeks. Then the week where I started messing around w/ the whipped cream (and not even pounding it - just adding it to my diet) stopped my fat loss cold to less than 0.3% lost that week, as I said, making no changes to diet or training.

Fueling your body for efficient use of resources is what will produce results. Diet is always your primary tool to drive change.

 

[M4A3]

Hey there everyone! I've been bulking up the lazy way (stuffing my face with everything) for some time now and I've decided it's time to cut down. I have a few questions I need cleared up if you would be so kind to help answer.

I'm 5'7 almost 21 years old at about 30-32% bodyfat weighing 220-225 lbs. My diet has consisted of about 2 or 3 big meals followed by some junk food and about an average of 6 cans of soda a day. My weight seems to stay roughly the same and even though I am somewhat of a lard bucket, I've gained several pounds of muscle and mass that I wish to keep. My goal is to cut all my fat and keep all of my mass. The only problem I have now is the way in which I will get there.

I'm willing and capable to do double to triple cardio (normal paced jogging about 30-45 min each session) each day once my body gets used to the running again. If I do triple cardio, which would roughly equate in about 10500 calories (or 3 pounds a week), and I'm eating my calorie maintenance level despite it having loads of sugar, HFCS, etc., will I lose weight or will this bad eating prevent me from it?

The reason I ask is because I don't want to cut too much out of my diet (like 6 cans of soda a day which is roughly 6000-7000 calories a week) as well as add double cardio (roughly another 6000-7000 caloris a week) and lose too much weight since some of it might be mass. Not only that but I would like to avoid eating too healthy for now since its kinda hard to determine my calorie maintenance level and eat all that whole wheat and turkey just to keep the pounds.

My second and final question to you is: if I can't proceed keeping my eating habits and doing triple cardio, how should I proceed doing this? Any advice?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to read this. I greatly appreciate it and any help you can share with me. THANKS!

So you want to get in shape, but you still want to eat like a lard-ass?

I don't get it.

 

[fox2630]

Now I'm curious to see if this will work. Hard to believe that a fat free whipped cream slowed your fat loss like that. Perhaps there was some other factor involved that caused the plateau. Not to mention I'm a male at 30-32% bf with daily calorie intake ranging in the several thousands.

This seems like a challenge I'll enjoy taking. My bet is that by doing triple cardio each day for one month, I will lose at least 2 pounds each week. I will post before pictures and statistics when I start if need be and the after stats and pics in one month's time after I started. The double cardio should take care of he 2 lbs while the third should settle any excess calories of maintenance.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly accept it as it should be an interesting test. If I'm right, it'll prove to be a nice little alternate method to dieting. This diet will consist of my usual 6 cans of soda a day and a big meal (usually chinese food, 2 honey buns, and 3 cans of soda) 2-3 hours before I sleep. I'll eat the same meal the night before each before and after stats run which will take place as soon as I wake up. I'll use a simple body fat caliper and weight scale to measure my progress.

Im gonna need time to get my body accustomed to the triple cardio. While I use to be able to run about 45-1hr easily with no need to recover, I just ran 2 days ago for 7 minutes and I've just recovered so it may take a while.

 

[fox2630]

So you want to get in shape, but you still want to eat like a lard-ass?

I don't get it.

Oh yea, bring on the challenge and pastries baby!!!

 

[sassy69]

Now I'm curious to see if this will work. Hard to believe that a fat free whipped cream slowed your fat loss like that. Perhaps there was some other factor involved that caused the plateau. Not to mention I'm a male at 30-32% bf with daily calorie intake ranging in the several thousands.

This seems like a challenge I'll enjoy taking. My bet is that by doing triple cardio each day for one month, I will lose at least 2 pounds each week. I will post before pictures and statistics when I start if need be and the after stats and pics in one month's time after I started. The double cardio should take care of he 2 lbs while the third should settle any excess calories of maintenance.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly accept it as it should be an interesting test. If I'm right, it'll prove to be a nice little alternate method to dieting. This diet will consist of my usual 6 cans of soda a day and a big meal (usually chinese food, 2 honey buns, and 3 cans of soda) 2-3 hours before I sleep. I'll eat the same meal the night before each before and after stats run which will take place as soon as I wake up. I'll use a simple body fat caliper and weight scale to measure my progress.

Im gonna need time to get my body accustomed to the triple cardio. While I use to be able to run about 45-1hr easily with no need to recover, I just ran 2 days ago for 7 minutes and I've just recovered so it may take a while.

Its like the epic dilemma.. do you vote for the douchebag or the turd sandwich?

 

[sassy69]

So post up the before pix dude. Let's see it.

 

[fox2630]

I'll post them up the night before I begin my triple cardio month to get more accurate stats and a more accurate study. I still need to get a new scale and camera anyway (all I have is a phone cam).

 

[Built]

This seems like a challenge I'll enjoy taking. My bet is that by doing triple cardio each day for one month, I will lose at least 2 pounds each week. I will post before pictures and statistics when I start if need be and the after stats and pics in one month's time after I started. The double cardio should take care of he 2 lbs while the third should settle any excess calories of maintenance.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly accept it as it should be an interesting test. If I'm right, it'll prove to be a nice little alternate method to dieting. This diet will consist of my usual 6 cans of soda a day and a big meal (usually chinese food, 2 honey buns, and 3 cans of soda) 2-3 hours before I sleep. I'll eat the same meal the night before each before and after stats run which will take place as soon as I wake up. I'll use a simple body fat caliper and weight scale to measure my progress.

Im gonna need time to get my body accustomed to the triple cardio. While I use to be able to run about 45-1hr easily with no need to recover, I just ran 2 days ago for 7 minutes and I've just recovered so it may take a while.

For one month? It'll work.

Your joints are going to take a toll unless you only do very low impact cardio, and even then, but you'll be able to overtrain off some weight for a month; maybe even two months.

Make this fair, okay? Track your intake FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

If you reduce your calories, it's not really much of an experiment. If you don't lose as much as you expected, you'll want to see if it's because your intake increased with the added activity. If you lose faster than expected on what would normally be maintenance calories, you're either burning more while exercising, or losing muscle.

Now, if you want to actually get - and stay lean, you'll have to pick a different strategy. I have not yet met a soul who has successfully exercised off enough weight to get truly lean, much less someone who has kept this weight off for any substantial length of time without tightening up diet. The research agrees with me - exercise is generally regarded a futile activity to promote weight loss. For one, many compensate - or overcompensate - for the increased expenditure due to exercise. For another, fatigue appears to cause people to burn fewer and fewer calories over time, particularly at high levels of activity.

"... intake does not appear to match elevated levels of EE in the short to medium term, and evidence suggests greater compensation in the longer term..."
The effect of graded levels of exercise on energy intake and balance in free-living men, consuming their normal diet; European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2002) 56, 129???140





My .02

 

[fox2630]

For one month? It'll work.

Your joints are going to take a toll unless you only do very low impact cardio, and even then, but you'll be able to overtrain off some weight for a month; maybe even two months.

Make this fair, okay? Track your intake FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

If you reduce your calories, it's not really much of an experiment. If you don't lose as much as you expected, you'll want to see if it's because your intake increased with the added activity. If you lose faster than expected on what would normally be maintenance calories, you're either burning more while exercising, or losing muscle.

Now, if you want to actually get - and stay lean, you'll have to pick a different strategy. I have not yet met a soul who has successfully exercised off enough weight to get truly lean, much less someone who has kept this weight off for any substantial length of time without tightening up diet. The research agrees with me - exercise is generally regarded a futile activity to promote weight loss. For one, many compensate - or overcompensate - for the increased expenditure due to exercise. For another, fatigue appears to cause people to burn fewer and fewer calories over time, particularly at high levels of activity.

"... intake does not appear to match elevated levels of EE in the short to medium term, and evidence suggests greater compensation in the longer term..."
The effect of graded levels of exercise on energy intake and balance in free-living men, consuming their normal diet; European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2002) 56, 129???140





My .02

I think I read similar stuff on Tom Venuto's BFFM a few years back on how too much cardio for long periods of time is not good. Thanks, I'll have to look into this soon and plan my future diet.

 

[Built]

It's not that it's "not good" - it's just not worth it. Basically, do three hours a day of cardio if it's your zen. If you're just doing it for fat-loss, it's easier to just ditch some of your food. You could probably effect the change you seek simply by switching to diet pop.

 

[dsl]

Are you for real? You are going to end up skinny and still fat because you burned up all your muscle with the insane amount of cardio and too little protein. Plus I remember my biochem teacher showing us a pathway for HFCSs to more easily turn to fat by skipping a few steps of glycolysis and go straight to fat for long-term storage.

And really why can't you at least drop down to one can of pop a day and see how that works out. If it's for the caffeine, there are alternatives available that aren't so loaded with cals.

 

[ManInBlack]

Thats a whole lot of fucking sodas bro!

 

[NCjuiced]

Dude I really want to see this...

 

[NCjuiced]

Sassy, question for you. you are saying you were able to drop 1 to 1.5% bf weekly during contest prep? The reason I ask I am currently at 12- 14%BF with 8 weeks to go. Did I cut it to close or maybe with 1 hr in the morning 1 hr at night?

 

[sassy69]

Sassy, question for you. you are saying you were able to drop 1 to 1.5% bf weekly during contest prep? The reason I ask I am currently at 12- 14%BF with 8 weeks to go. Did I cut it to close or maybe with 1 hr in the morning 1 hr at night?

You'll know if you have a tight burn rate set up - you should be peeing regularly and feeling hungry on schedule but not feeling wiped out. For a guy I think you're a little behind schedule tho. You should be coming in around 5% Most people can dump up to 10 lb of water weight during the last week, but that's just water and it can't make up for fat you should've lost before then.

I don't know what you're doing now. A couple things you can do are start w/ your diet and tweak it if you aren't losing at a rate of at least 1% bf per week. You can go to a keto diet or go to a carb rotation - I don't like cutting total cals this far out because it gives you no place to go if you stall out. With cardio, you can up your totl amount of cardio as well as do a mix of HIIT cardio and steady-state.

One of my major tricks is to at around 5 weeks out, get a sauna suit (one of those plastic sweat suits you can get at the sports store for like $11) and do my morning cardio with that. You'll sweat bullets but it helps w/ both water & fat. I don't want to go into the discussion of whether or not you're losing just water - the shit works. If you need a tool to get you goign if you're behind, it works. See below for a quick note on how I set up mine.

Also around 4-5 weeks I notice my strength dropping so that's about where I switch over to more high rep / low weight stuff to just burn up glycogen. YOu're not eating to build anymore so no point wasting the effort trying to lift heavy where you might actually injure yourself while you're more depleted.


* Setting up the sauna suit:
- I do this only with cardio eqpt that doesn't make the sweat spill out - i.e. isolated range of motion - bike won't work, elliptical won't work, stepmill won't work, at least for me. I do this strictly on a treadmill or stairmaster.

- put on the shirt, tuck it into the bottoms
- I put gallon plastic baggies on my feet over my socks, tuck the legs of the bottoms into the baggies and put a rubber band around the tops to keep it closed
- put shoes on over the baggies - I fold over the toes-end corner of the baggie so I have some room to spread out as I go into the shoes so the baggies aren't so tight they rip.

Then during cardio I keep my arms up on the handles of the cardio eqpt. I'm not worried about "don't hold onto the eqpt to get more out of the cardio" etc. At some point you'll be too tired to do anythign but hold on, and like I said - the shit works. The only purpose is to keep moving and burn fat. My only goal is to do it without dumping 2 gallons of sweat all over the cardio eqpt and make a big mess.

When I'm done I just get off the eqpt and walk straight into the locker room shower and peel it all off, dump out the water I sweated off and finish my shower. Rinse out the sauna suit, wipe it down, let it dry for tomorrow. I've even managed to get back into my car and drive home if I didnt' feel like bringing all my shower stuff to the gym.

Keep doing it as long as you need to, but stop no later than Monday before your show as you'll have lots of water and toxins floating around in your body and you need time to dump it all and get rid of the watery look (same reason you stop training & cardio by Wed.) I generally only do it for one of my two cardio sessions per day.

Just some other thoughts - I dont' know if you're cycling - if you're runnign anything that aromatizes, that may be one source of extra bodyfat / fluff which would be expected to drop when you drop those compounds - which yoiu should do by 10-14 days out.

 

[jmorrison]

lmao Built, does this remind you of when you were telling me to slow down my cardio when I was firt trying to lose weight? I was losing the weight quickly, so I ignored Built, and oh yes, I lost weight. A shit load of it. About as much muscle as fat, and ended up looking like a pudgy cancer victim. Too much cardio is bad!

 

[NCjuiced]

You are awesome. Some of the best tips I have gotten!! Thanks so much!!