i've heard a lot of bros that say to front load with long esters per say deca, and some say that is not good & to keep it the same dosage all the way my cycle. Is that true that it will kick in faster if you front load with a long ester??? let's say if you're doing a 10 week cycle of it, and you front load it with 1200mg the first week then the sencond week to the end at 600mg (pretty much in pyramid but with front load), will it kick in faster?? I say that why don't give the long ester do it's job? please give your OPINION OR THEORY I need you all's opinion about this.
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front load long ester?
- Thread starter jeb
- Start date
I never frontload. I either kickstart the cycle with Prop, D-bol or Anadrol.
Jump in Lam or Mudge. Does frontloading stabilize the first few weeks of the cycle keeping it constant at the beginning.
Jump in Lam or Mudge. Does frontloading stabilize the first few weeks of the cycle keeping it constant at the beginning.
Gosh darn Eric that just shot that 6 weeker in the butt. lolForemanRules said:
I know that. I like test eq and dbol cycles. I'm asking if you do a cycle of deca (just an example ok) would front loading it with the same would it give you the "kick" faster than running it at a constant dose all the way?.
ForemanRules said:
blood levels will peak in 24-48 hours regardless of the dosage used with an enanthate ester. personally I wouldn't front load with deca but if I was going to frontload with using test/deca it would go like this :
Week 1-2 : test prop @ 500 mg & test enanthate @ 500 mg
Week 3-12 : test enanthate @ 500 mg/wk
Week 1-10 : deca @ 400 mg/wk
Week 1-12 : T3 @ 50 mcg/ED
* obviously you could use dbol in place of the prop to jump start the cycle
Week 1-2 : test prop @ 500 mg & test enanthate @ 500 mg
Week 3-12 : test enanthate @ 500 mg/wk
Week 1-10 : deca @ 400 mg/wk
Week 1-12 : T3 @ 50 mcg/ED
* obviously you could use dbol in place of the prop to jump start the cycle
you double the dose in the first week if you wanted to frontload, eg if you were running 400mg of deca a week for 10 weeks, run 800mg in the first week, then 400mg weeks 2-10
personally i haven't tried it, i'm starting to think that maybe i should have done it with the test en. on my cycle to get it into my system quicker, but its too late now, maybe i'll try frontloading on my next cycle, i'd be interested to hear some more opinions on frontloading from the more experienced guys
personally i haven't tried it, i'm starting to think that maybe i should have done it with the test en. on my cycle to get it into my system quicker, but its too late now, maybe i'll try frontloading on my next cycle, i'd be interested to hear some more opinions on frontloading from the more experienced guys
It does not matter if you double the dose or not. If you take 500mg or 100mg Test E, it will still take about two weeks for peak blood levels. Your peak levels will be higher if you double dose. It won't get in your system quicker unless you use a shorter ester.young d said:
i don't really get why some people take double doses for the first week then? maybe they are just ill-adviseddg806 said:
Better to use short esters like npp and prop as LAM said
Frontloading Basics and Dosages
by Curls4dGirls at SuperiorMuscle.com with contributions by Skyefire and Spidey
The purpose of this thread is to provide some basic information on frontloading, including an explanation of half-lives, differences across esters, and recommended frontloading dosages.
HALF-LIFE BASICS
Each compound includes an ester that, along with other factors, controls the release of the hormone into the system. The rate of release differs by ester and is defined in terms of half-life. The average half-lives of esters are:
ESTER HALF LIFE (days)
Formate 1.5
Acetate 3
Propionate 4.5
Butyrate 6
Valerate 7.5
Hexanoate 9
Caproate 9
Isocaproate 9
Heptanoate 10.5
Enanthate 10.5
Octanoate 12
Cypionate 12
Nonanoate 13.5
Decanoate 15
Undecanoate 16.5
The half-life is the length of time (in days) to release half of the hormone into the system. For example, if 500 mgs of Testosterone Cypionate is administered, in 12 days, on average, 250 mgs of testosterone has been released into the system and 250 mgs of testosterone remains attached to the ester. In another 12 days, an additional 125 mgs (half of the remaining 250 mgs) has been released into the system for a total of 375 mgs released and 125 mgs still attached to the ester. The key detail is that different esters release the hormone into the system at different rates. Therefore, different esters require different frontload dosages.
FRONTLOADING
The purpose of frontloading is to quickly reach the target dosage to more quickly realize the benefits of the AAS. This thread provides instructions to reach 75% of the weekly dosage within the first week
Most people use, as a rule of thumb, twice the weekly dosage (double dosing) in the first week. That works well for esters with a half-life of 10.5 days or less. However, this does not work well for longer esters. Let???s look at EQ as an example. If the intended weekly dosage is 600 mgs, then the frontload dosage, based on double dosing, is 1200 mgs. Although 50% of the intended dosage is reached in the first week, 75% of the intended dosage is not reached until week 4. Without any frontloading, 75% of the intended dosage is reached in week 5. So, while ???double dosing??? works, the effects diminish with increasing half-life.
EQ Double Dose Values at 600 mgs (1200 mgs in Week 1)
No Frontload
Released??? % of Target
Week 1 153??? 25%
Week 2 267??? 44%
Week 3 352??? 59%
Week 4 415??? 69%
Week 5 462??? 77%
Week 6 497??? 83%
Double Dosing
Released??? % of Target
Week 1 306??? 51%
Week 2 381??? 63%
Week 3 437??? 73%
Week 4 478??? 80%
Week 5 509??? 85%
Week 6 532??? 89%
The following table includes frontloading dosage to reach 75% of the intended dosage by the end of the first week. The dosages are indexed at 100 mgs / week. To reach your intended dosage, simply multiply the frontload dosage by your weekly dosage divided by 100. For example, if you wanted to run Testosterone Cypionate at 800 mgs / wk, then multiply the frontload dosage of 225 mgs by 8 (800 / 100) for 1800 mgs in week 1.
ESTER FRONTLOAD DOSAGE(mgs)
Formate 100
Acetate 100
Propionate 115
Butyrate 130
Valerate 160
Hexanoate 180
Caproate 180
Isocaproate 180
Heptanoate 200
Enanthate 200
Octanoate 225
Cypionate 225
Nonanoate 250
Decanoate 270
Undecanoate 295
The calculation used is MgDL = MgD * (1/2)^(D/HL), where:
MgDL = Mgs of depot left
MgD = Mgs in depot (total)
D = Days
H = Half-life
Injections for Formate and Acetate are daily. Injections for Propianate are every other day. Injections for Butyrate are every 3 days. All other esters are administered as one injection at the beginning of the week 1. It should be noted that injection frequency does not significantly influence frontloading dosages.
Frontloading Basics and Dosages
by Curls4dGirls at SuperiorMuscle.com with contributions by Skyefire and Spidey
The purpose of this thread is to provide some basic information on frontloading, including an explanation of half-lives, differences across esters, and recommended frontloading dosages.
HALF-LIFE BASICS
Each compound includes an ester that, along with other factors, controls the release of the hormone into the system. The rate of release differs by ester and is defined in terms of half-life. The average half-lives of esters are:
ESTER HALF LIFE (days)
Formate 1.5
Acetate 3
Propionate 4.5
Butyrate 6
Valerate 7.5
Hexanoate 9
Caproate 9
Isocaproate 9
Heptanoate 10.5
Enanthate 10.5
Octanoate 12
Cypionate 12
Nonanoate 13.5
Decanoate 15
Undecanoate 16.5
The half-life is the length of time (in days) to release half of the hormone into the system. For example, if 500 mgs of Testosterone Cypionate is administered, in 12 days, on average, 250 mgs of testosterone has been released into the system and 250 mgs of testosterone remains attached to the ester. In another 12 days, an additional 125 mgs (half of the remaining 250 mgs) has been released into the system for a total of 375 mgs released and 125 mgs still attached to the ester. The key detail is that different esters release the hormone into the system at different rates. Therefore, different esters require different frontload dosages.
FRONTLOADING
The purpose of frontloading is to quickly reach the target dosage to more quickly realize the benefits of the AAS. This thread provides instructions to reach 75% of the weekly dosage within the first week
Most people use, as a rule of thumb, twice the weekly dosage (double dosing) in the first week. That works well for esters with a half-life of 10.5 days or less. However, this does not work well for longer esters. Let???s look at EQ as an example. If the intended weekly dosage is 600 mgs, then the frontload dosage, based on double dosing, is 1200 mgs. Although 50% of the intended dosage is reached in the first week, 75% of the intended dosage is not reached until week 4. Without any frontloading, 75% of the intended dosage is reached in week 5. So, while ???double dosing??? works, the effects diminish with increasing half-life.
EQ Double Dose Values at 600 mgs (1200 mgs in Week 1)
No Frontload
Released??? % of Target
Week 1 153??? 25%
Week 2 267??? 44%
Week 3 352??? 59%
Week 4 415??? 69%
Week 5 462??? 77%
Week 6 497??? 83%
Double Dosing
Released??? % of Target
Week 1 306??? 51%
Week 2 381??? 63%
Week 3 437??? 73%
Week 4 478??? 80%
Week 5 509??? 85%
Week 6 532??? 89%
The following table includes frontloading dosage to reach 75% of the intended dosage by the end of the first week. The dosages are indexed at 100 mgs / week. To reach your intended dosage, simply multiply the frontload dosage by your weekly dosage divided by 100. For example, if you wanted to run Testosterone Cypionate at 800 mgs / wk, then multiply the frontload dosage of 225 mgs by 8 (800 / 100) for 1800 mgs in week 1.
ESTER FRONTLOAD DOSAGE(mgs)
Formate 100
Acetate 100
Propionate 115
Butyrate 130
Valerate 160
Hexanoate 180
Caproate 180
Isocaproate 180
Heptanoate 200
Enanthate 200
Octanoate 225
Cypionate 225
Nonanoate 250
Decanoate 270
Undecanoate 295
The calculation used is MgDL = MgD * (1/2)^(D/HL), where:
MgDL = Mgs of depot left
MgD = Mgs in depot (total)
D = Days
H = Half-life
Injections for Formate and Acetate are daily. Injections for Propianate are every other day. Injections for Butyrate are every 3 days. All other esters are administered as one injection at the beginning of the week 1. It should be noted that injection frequency does not significantly influence frontloading dosages.
IMO, when you double dose, you are taking more gear than you really need to grow and the chances of sides go way up.
I see it as for the first week it kicks in you will be jacked up and then after that your levels will go down a week later....so there is no point in doing it
Because they are goofy and believe they'll get results sooner. You know the old saying the quicker the better!. Do what Lam or Dg said.young d said:
use http://www.come.to/roidcalc and tell us if you see the number of active hormones go up and then down. it's just not that simple. esterification changes everything... frontloading allows the total number of "active hormones", key word, to reach the target amount faster. with that said, i don't know if i would frontload a compound other than test again. i think kickstarting with prop is a better choice for the reason dg806 mentioned -higher risk of sides but prop seems to be a better avenue if you need to back off. but then again, i'm just a f*ckin' newbie... what do i know?TrojanMan60563 said:
I think for people that only have a cycle or two or on their first cycle, this is completely a waste of gear. No need to try to get levels that high that fast. You will grow plenty off of your regular dose. Like the saying goes, more is not always better.
that would seem to suggest to me that frontloading (even with longer esters) is worth doing, maybe not on a first cycle, but it might be a good idea on a 2nd or 3rd cycle if you wanted to keep at the same dosePirateFromHell said:
what about orals and frontload? prop is just way too many needles for my liking!PirateFromHell said:
young d said:
you could jump start a long ester cycle with dbol, drol or halo
You have put on a pound a day for almost two weeks, right? Isn't D-bol enough of a jumpstart? If you are running orals and long esters, and you really want to do a frontload, just double your test dose for the first week.young d said:
sorry if i came off sounding like a jerk yesterday... that was just the mood i was in at the time.19-chief said:
no, its notPirateFromHell said:
young d, you're up 14+ pounds already? hot damn!young d said:no, its not
19-chief said:
Don't worry about it....I just don't see the logic in front loading on long esters or any ester. It doesn't make sense to me. Its not like its going to kick in fast if you shoot more of it your first week.
well according to pirates post it wouldTrojanMan60563 said:
